disablities: social, learning ect.

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Davetello

I still find it strange that the 'c' word is more offensive over there than 'spaz'. Why on earth should women find that word offensive? It's just a word for their genitals, like the 'p' word.

I guess you don't play online gaming much, otherwise you'd be bombarded with shouts of "gaaaaaaay" every twenty seconds or so...

"Spaz", in my experience, only appears to cause an outrage in this country. I am unaware, despite having many friends in many other countries around the world, of them finding the word offensive. Witness what happened when Tiger Woods used the term during an interview on British TV to describe how played in one particular round. A Nintendo videogame (I think it was one of the Mario Party series) got pulled because of a single instance of using the word!

"Spaz" derived from the word "spastic" as said, and the use of the term caused The Spastic Society to change its name because of the negative connotations associated with it, probably sparked by us 80s kids bandying the term in the playgrounds in response to Joey Deacon on Blue Peter. So the charity changed its name to Scope. You know what happened? Kids started calling each other "scopers" in the playground instead. My brother and I occasionally josh with his girlfriend over her name, because she is S.Cope (seriously).

You can't escape human behaviour. I'm not condoning it, but I suspect you'd be trying to fight a losing battle. And Americans I've known for a long time just don't find the word offensive, and don't use the word as an active aggressive cuss. Which similar terms such as the shortening of Pakistani, or the C word, are also in this bracket, along with the usual J word and N word.

Although oddly enough I get more cusses regarding drinking tea, eating crumpets and reading Harry Potter when online

[ZariusTwo]

I have aspergers, and boy can it show a lot. I think I've handled it better in real life than I've ever managed on the internet. I also have dispraxia, and am prone to making constant spelling mistakes in my fanfic writing, which make me feel very inadequete. My aspergers also means I have a very tough time explaining my reasons for disliking something after I state it as an opinion.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Mayhem

Although oddly enough I get more cusses regarding drinking tea, eating crumpets and reading Harry Potter when online

What about teeth?

Sorry couldn't resist.

Great post, BTW.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Mayhem

I guess you don't play online gaming much, otherwise you'd be bombarded with shouts of "gaaaaaaay" every twenty seconds or so...

"Spaz", in my experience, only appears to cause an outrage in this country. I am unaware, despite having many friends in many other countries around the world, of them finding the word offensive. Witness what happened when Tiger Woods used the term during an interview on British TV to describe how played in one particular round. A Nintendo videogame (I think it was one of the Mario Party series) got pulled because of a single instance of using the word!

"Spaz" derived from the word "spastic" as said, and the use of the term caused The Spastic Society to change its name because of the negative connotations associated with it, probably sparked by us 80s kids bandying the term in the playgrounds in response to Joey Deacon on Blue Peter. So the charity changed its name to Scope. You know what happened? Kids started calling each other "scopers" in the playground instead. My brother and I occasionally josh with his girlfriend over her name, because she is S.Cope (seriously).

You can't escape human behaviour. I'm not condoning it, but I suspect you'd be trying to fight a losing battle. And Americans I've known for a long time just don't find the word offensive, and don't use the word as an active aggressive cuss. Which similar terms such as the shortening of Pakistani, or the C word, are also in this bracket, along with the usual J word and N word.

Although oddly enough I get more cusses regarding drinking tea, eating crumpets and reading Harry Potter when online

Thanks for your reply mate. That makes a fair bit of sense. I only really play FIFA online and mainly against Europeans. I don't have a headset and neither do most people I play so I don't hear many strangers talking. However, I'm well aware of the immature kids on PS3, Xbox Live etc.

All that stuff about tea, crumpets, Harry Potter etc is hilarious. I bet they'd ask if I was sitting in a kilt when they saw I was Scottish

I was pretty sure other countries found terms such as 'spaz' (or a translation) offensive though. Perhaps they don't.

I can't believe Americans have the temerity to preach about the 'c' word when they don't care about 'spaz'. I suppose they'll say the same about me in this debate, but I've already outlined my reasoning i.e. the disabled are a far more persecuted group than able-bodied women (unless you're a feminist who thinks women are being treated poorly by not making enough money to buy that new Gucci handbag).

Oh, and yeah, I'm fighting a losing battle because many people just don't respect the disabled, which is awful.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I have aspergers, and boy can it show a lot. I think I've handled it better in real life than I've ever managed on the internet. I also have dispraxia, and am prone to making constant spelling mistakes in my fanfic writing, which make me feel very inadequete. My aspergers also means I have a very tough time explaining my reasons for disliking something after I state it as an opinion.

You shouldn't feel inadequate. Spelling ability is not an indicator of intellect. Some of the smartest people ever couldn't spell - wasn't Einstein dyslexic?

It's not your fault that you have aspergers either. If people try to belittle you because of that then they're not worth your time. Keep your chin up lad.

[Jester]

Seriously dude...it's all culture and connotation.

Here....
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/langu...es/003020.html

Originally Posted by Davetello

I've already outlined my reasoning i.e. the disabled are a far more persecuted group than able-bodied women (unless you're a feminist who thinks women are being treated poorly by not making enough money to buy that new Gucci handbag).

Oh, and yeah, I'm fighting a losing battle because many people just don't respect the disabled, which is awful.

Oye...that's not at all sexist. There are some distinct things women do have to deal with aside from affording designer bags...like sexual assault.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Jester

What about teeth?

Sorry couldn't resist.

Great post, BTW.

On another note, are you going to reply and tell me your feelings on patriotism (open a new topic if you don't wanna derail this one)?

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Jester

Seriously dude...it's all culture and connotation.

Here....
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/langu...es/003020.html

I scanned that. Fair enough, it appears that it isn't meant in the British manner in the States, but it certainly seems that way when Mikey says it. I will drop it now, although it has been an interesting debate.

I think we can both agree that the use of the word 'spaz' in the British context is repulsive though, yes? And I'm assuming that words like 'retard' are derogatory over there. So simply substitute the word 'spaz' with a term which is used to cause offence to American disabled people and my original point stands.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Jester

Oye...that's not at all sexist. There are some distinct things women do have to deal with aside from affording designer bags...like sexual assault.

Nah, I agree, you're right. I'm being deliberately hyperbolic because feminists over-egg things. However, I think we can agree that the disabled are far more persecuted than able-bodied women, on the whole. Not to mention that their lives are generally more difficult minus the persecution, due to being disabled.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Davetello

I scanned that. Fair enough, it appears that it isn't meant in the British manner in the States, but it certainly seems that way when Mikey says it. I will drop it now, although it has been an interesting debate.

I think we can both agree that the use of the word 'spaz' in the British context is repulsive though, yes? And I'm assuming that words like 'retard' are derogatory over there. So simply substitute the word 'spaz' with a term which is used to cause offense to American disabled people and my original point stands.

Again...you're using English context on an American turn of phrase. If anyone has to see the other side it's you. I understand it's a terrible "word that shall not be uttered" over there, but here it's just a synonym for dweeb or nerd or dork. That is the context it's being used in. Instead of replacing "spaz" with "retard" replace it with "dork" or "dweeb" and the point stands. Mikey is an American and is using the American slang phrase. It would be like me getting bent out of shape about your usage of "C***", because my American sensibilities were bruised. Its meaning is different over there.

As to the patriotism thing it's off topic, and if we did start a new thread it's probably meet a quick end, as political threads are want to do.

Originally Posted by Davetello

Nah, I agree, you're right. I'm being deliberately hyperbolic because feminists over-egg things. However, I think we can agree that the disabled are far more persecuted than able-bodied women, on the whole. Not to mention that their lives are generally more difficult minus the persecution, due to being disabled.

I dunna...most people would be labeled a jerk for mistreating the disabled and rightfully so. Also most of those other life difficulties can be aided with help from others. People with disabilities need acceptance not pity.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Jester

I dunna...most people would be labeled a jerk for mistreating the disabled and rightfully so. Also most of those other life difficulties can be aided with help from others. People with disabilities need acceptance not pity.

I'm not so sure about that. We often hear that those who mock others are generally the most caring people, and the fact that they are comfortable mocking certain groups shows that they treat them as equals. I think this is a deeply flawed argument and, by and large, those who use pejorative terms are the very type who are prejudiced against the disabled and other groups. I'd say less people are tolerant of the disabled than you think.

I figured some might see pity in my words, but it isn't that. I too agree that they need acceptance and not pity. I think it's more 'compassion' that I'm leaning towards, rather than sympathy. I suppose compassion is sort of defined as pity but I don't really see it that way - I view it as an acute awareness for people's problems, while maintaining respect for them and their right to dignity.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Jester

Again...you're using English context on an American turn of phrase. If anyone has to see the other side it's you. I understand it's a terrible "word that shall not be uttered" over there, but here it's just a synonym for dweeb or nerd or dork. That is the context it's being used in. Instead of replacing "spaz" with "retard" replace it with "dork" or "dweeb" and the point stands. Mikey is an American and is using the American slang phrase. It would be like me getting bent out of shape about your usage of "C***", because my American sensibilities were bruised. Its meaning is different over there.

You're not understanding what I am saying. Yes, replace 'spaz' with a word like dork i.e. spaz isn't meant to denigrate the disabled over there. That's fine. What I mean is that, if an American uses an equivalent American term for the British 'spaz' (e.g. retard etc, I donno, what words over there are designed to cause offence to the disabled?), that would back up my original point. If I'd used an American word which is designed to cause offence, rather than 'spaz' then things would be fine.

In actual fact, I most certainly am seeing the other side of things, because I've conceded your point about 'spaz' and I'm now asking you to tell me an American equivalent which would substitute for the BRITISH 'spaz', not the AMERICAN 'spaz' (I hate capitalising words but I'm trying to emphasise things and I don't often use bold type).


I can't explain this more clearly so I hope you understand this time.

[Jester]

I understand. Yes, it would be essentially "retard"...if that's what Mikey (Raph) meant. That's all I'm saying. I understand it's offensive THERE. It isn't HERE. The movie was made HERE, the line was said by a character from HERE, and thus the context of the line is the context of the word's usage HERE. Mikey (Raph) wasn't calling the Foot Soldier (Prof. Perry) a "retard" because the word "spaz" doesn't share the same connotation. They were calling the other person a dork, or a dweep, or a geek, or a nerd.

Back to "c***". if I watched a British film and they used the word, and I got offended by it, it would only be because I was using an American frame of reference. If I stopped, and looked at the British context, I'd probably be more inclined to not be so offended.

Originally Posted by George Bernard Shaw

England and America are two countries separated by a common language.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Jester

I understand. Yes, it would be essentially "retard"...if that's what Mikey (Raph) meant. That's all I'm saying. I understand it's offensive THERE. It isn't HERE. The movie was made HERE, the line was said by a character from HERE, and thus the context of the line is the context of the word's usage HERE. Mikey (Raph) wasn't calling the Foot Soldier (Prof. Perry) a "retard" because the word "spaz" doesn't share the same connotation. They were calling the other person a dork, or a dweep, or a geek, or a nerd.

Back to "c***". if I watched a British film and they used the word, and I got offended by it, it would only be because I was using an American frame of reference. If I stopped, and looked at the British context, I'd probably be more inclined to not be so offended.

And I've explained to you that I understand that now, and as that's the case I won't be offended by it any more. Now, if Mikey or Raph had said 'retard' then I would be offended, as that obviously means similar to what 'spaz' does here (and indeed what 'retard' itself does).

I generally agree with you about context to the host country as I explained before. There were two reasons I took issue with your reply. First, I was unaware that 'spaz' was one of those words which has a different meaning in US and UK English. Second, I felt that in a kids' movie being marketed to an international audience, its usage was not appropriate. I've conceded the former point, and it's also been claimed that the UK is one of only a few nations which finds 'spaz' objectionable. If that is indeed the case (and since I too don't think the world revolves around my corrupt country), I admit that I went OTT on the latter point.

Again though, if the turtles had said 'retard' and it was an intended attack on the disabled, THEN my point would stand. But they didn't. however, my original point stands for anyone who calls someone a 'retard' in the USA, with the intention of belittling the disabled.

I hope we can put this confusion behind us now.

"England and America are two countries separated by a common language."

Lol what is even the point of that? I KNOW that there are major differences between US and UK English, how many times do I have to ****ing tell you that? The entire point is that I didn't know that 'spaz' was one of the words that that applied to in my original post. I still wasn't convinced by your claims, but I am now so have dropped it i.e. 'spaz' is a word which has different connotations there and here, so as a result I will concede that. FFS.

[Jester]

Consider it dropped.

[Davetello]

Good man. After about three replies of me saying the same thing you've acknowledged what I meant. Dropped.

[愛]

It's like people can't have a proper conversation anymore without going "u dumb" "no u dumb."

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by 愛

It's like people can't have a proper conversation anymore without going "u dumb" "no u dumb."

Come off it, there's been plenty of elaborating on our views in this thread, in amongst the hostility.

It's over now. Like you, I don't enjoy arguing on the internet either but that's two or three times now someone has confronted me. Admittedly Jester was more civil than others, but he still misrepresented my position. It didn't help either that I was unaware that 'spaz' isn't offensive in the US.

It's been dropped now, and I'm playing 'soccer' in ten minutes. So let's just leave it there and get back on track. I'm not here to argue with people. I wanna discuss the turtles (and general issues) in a respectful fashion.

[愛]

There was no need to go and say "you're dumb for having me have to explain my point three times." That's all I have to say about that.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I have aspergers, and boy can it show a lot. I think I've handled it better in real life than I've ever managed on the internet. I also have dispraxia, and am prone to making constant spelling mistakes in my fanfic writing, which make me feel very inadequete. My aspergers also means I have a very tough time explaining my reasons for disliking something after I state it as an opinion.

I have dispraxia as well, was very frustrating for many, many years. Still is occasionally. I also had crippling panic attacks for about 5 years (not sure why they stopped exactly, but very thankful). I wouldn't leave the house for the most part. Then I got a medical alert Service Dog and was able to finally get on with my life and eventually went back to college. He really was a life saver and now is retired and is a fat, lazy old couch potato. It was (and still is) amazing to me how the general public perceives those with a visable disability vs a non visible one. I was told countless times by stores, etc. that there was nothing wrong with me and I couldn't bring my dog in. So I learned all the ADA laws and would quote them off to anyone who stopped me. People are always a mystery.