So where exactly are all these mutants on the loose hiding in NYC?

[miru]

Originally Posted by ThatCollectorGuy

Actually it is. The game is supposed to take place in between Seasons 1 & 2.

As for where they went, we know SpiderBytez is still bounding around the city in secret since he will be returning, Wingnut is probably also flying around and Snakeweed is probably in his sewer lair. Probably.

Cockroach Terminator II: Judgement Day should eventually happen (I'd laugh if that were the real name ), Rockwell... uh... I dunno. And Justin's probably dead (as much as I want to see him come back ;P). That's all I have.

And Verminator X will come back, we already saw storyboards.

[Toadtrooper]

It's the show's way of trying to balance itself. Just forget those old mutants exist because we overpowered them and can't possibly have them teaming up because we'd have Teenage Mutant Blood Stains.

The whole idea of Splinter training his students is getting flushed down the toilet. One C-list mutant that can take on all four Turtles? Forget training; evolution and survival means a second mutation at this point. Of course, the show's not that concerned about science. Donatello called an Erlenmeyer flask a "beaker." They're not synonyms.

Between that and the pointless reuse of old names for obviously new faces, the show's getting stale quickly. Introducing a dozen mutants doesn't matter to me. At this point, I just want five more minutes between Casey and April. Even Splinter is getting boring, and he was far and above the best thing about the first season.

[Refractive Reflections]

This show has so many other bigger problems in trying to explain its neglectful, complacent approach, in terms of being selectively attentive of its own created arcs/subplots (i.e. not keeping up with the Splinter's daughter-Karai arc in relevant episodes, and April thinking she could have a normal life even though the Kraang are after her), its characters' logic (Mikey using the mutagen on his face when he observed Timothy's horrific change), the lack of consistency in concerning the mechanism of the mutagen and the supposed superiority of these adaptable Foot-bots (that can't even kill/destroy Casey and April).

To me, asking this question on "Where are all the mutants in NYC?" is a far less pertinent question, considering there are so many other more pressing problems this series faces. I'm not trying to dismiss this thread or anything, but for me this question is actually not as big of an issue than compared to viewing this series back during its first season, due to the germinating problems I mentioned above. So anyone's guess on where they are, are as good as mine. ...At least concerning my interest.

[Michelangelo]

It's a 'children's' show, get over it.
If you watch the first series from the '80's then you can see that it was technically flawed storywise with all it's nonsensical episodes.
If you're after something that is so sophisticated watch breaking bad or something.
There's nothing wrong with all the TMNT incarnations, they work in there own way.
So long as someone out there enjoys them who cares.
Besides this show is not even marketed to people over about 12 years old.
Everyone's free to state their view, but dragging on about it's flaws is missing the point.
The show has always been for children and such shows don't have to make complete sense or following any story arcs in any order or whatever, fact!
Despite all the good and bad points about all the shows etc there have been, the fact that one is a fan is more important than anything else. Like what you like and let the rest go.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Michelangelo

It's a 'children's' show, get over it.
If you watch the first series from the '80's then you can see that it was technically flawed storywise with all it's nonsensical episodes.
If you're after something that is so sophisticated watch breaking bad or something.
There's nothing wrong with all the TMNT incarnations, they work in there own way.
So long as someone out there enjoys them who cares.
Besides this show is not even marketed to people over about 12 years old.
Everyone's free to state their view, but dragging on about it's flaws is missing the point.
The show has always been for children and such shows don't have to make complete sense or following any story arcs in any order or whatever, fact!
Despite all the good and bad points about all the shows etc there have been, the fact that one is a fan is more important than anything else. Like what you like and let the rest go.

I would have given the Nick show a break for its target audience, but... how do you explain the consistency with 4Kids then? And that was a "kids show".

Again, the OT was designed for syndication and never came along with the expectation of continuity. So how is it that 4Kids does it well here, but yet Nick isn't?

Hey if people enjoy it, and if its enough to satisfy them, that's fine. But from my viewpoint the show shouldn't claim something (like strong continuity) it can't deliver properly, when its at the expense of the characters' growth and logic; and yet 4Kids was able to deliver that relatively well at least from seasons 1-4.

[Michelangelo]

It's consistent.
All the points you made are valid and at the very least questionable, however they all work in the show and make sense. I know that for some they might not. Things like not carrying on with the same part of the story for the following episodes is no big deal, they have 26 episodes to play with unlike 13 in a lot of adult shows. Compared to some stuff out there TMNT is a hell of a lot better. In my view this is the slickest version yet. The 2k3 show was truest to the comics but the cartoon has become an entity all of it's own. The continuity with the TMNT is that the episodes are all about the turtles. Casey, April, Karai can all wait, because it's all about the turtles and in that sense there is continuity. Besides it's great to have side adventures, even if there have been a few in a row but who cares they'll get to the heavier stuff soon enough. This new TMNT is fine, the point about Mikey and the mutagen is valid but that's Mikey he does stupid things. Character development was really there in the last episode for Raph so there is nothing in that regard being sacrificed. I think your gripe is misplaced, but it's your choice to dislike what you want to for whatever reason. 4kids tmnt (2k3 series) was over seen by Peter Laird so it was always going to be more serious/true to the comic etc. This new TMNT is really not aimed at the same audience as that show and for what it does it does it very well. So long as Nick doesn't claim that children will be highly educated from watching the show they can claim pretty much whatever else they like because it is good.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Toadtrooper

The whole idea of Splinter training his students is getting flushed down the toilet. One C-list mutant that can take on all four Turtles? Forget training; evolution and survival means a second mutation at this point. Of course, the show's not that concerned about science.

Monkey see, monkey do. With extreme strength. Spike stated that he have watched the turtles train, and have learned from that. A nod to how Splinter knew martial arts and Ninjutsu in the Mirage comics. A creature observing a certain skillset over a long period of time might insta-learn it upon mutation.

It's no more far fetched then giving a tortoise or a turtle possible thumbs, bipedal body or the ability of speech as humans.

That Spike a regular house pet tortoise knows fluidly perfect English from first moment of mutation, could be a sign of said learning progress from the mutagen.

[Michelangelo]

Good points of observation there Candy Kappa.
Slash needed credibility for his skills and the whole watching the turtles train thing, which is derivative of splinter, was good enough to give it. All that mutagen certainly made slash powerful just like the other mutants in the show. All of them have been strong and dangerous but it has been the turtles overwhelming ninja skills that have kept them in the winner's circle, that and the script. Everything in the show does make sense, it's a just a matter of accepting the reasons given. I mean who ever heard of mutagen anyway, let alone having it turn turtles into walking talking ninjas. Now that just makes absolute sense. It's a 'children's' show, it doesn't have to make sense but this TMNT does a good job of making sense. Thumbs up to Nick and the team.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Michelangelo

It's consistent.
All the points you made are valid and at the very least questionable, however they all work in the show and make sense. I know that for some they might not. Things like not carrying on with the same part of the story for the following episodes is no big deal, they have 26 episodes to play with unlike 13 in a lot of adult shows. Compared to some stuff out there TMNT is a hell of a lot better. In my view this is the slickest version yet. The 2k3 show was truest to the comics but the cartoon has become an entity all of it's own. The continuity with the TMNT is that the episodes are all about the turtles. Casey, April, Karai can all wait, because it's all about the turtles and in that sense there is continuity. Besides it's great to have side adventures, even if there have been a few in a row but who cares they'll get to the heavier stuff soon enough. This new TMNT is fine, the point about Mikey and the mutagen is valid but that's Mikey he does stupid things. Character development was really there in the last episode for Raph so there is nothing in that regard being sacrificed. I think your gripe is misplaced, but it's your choice to dislike what you want to for whatever reason. 4kids tmnt (2k3 series) was over seen by Peter Laird so it was always going to be more serious/true to the comic etc. This new TMNT is really not aimed at the same audience as that show and for what it does it does it very well. So long as Nick doesn't claim that children will be highly educated from watching the show they can claim pretty much whatever else they like because it is good.

Eh... yeah, I get all that. I actually enjoyed the last episode in "Slash and Destroy", and gave the show credit for that.

Now, I'm not expecting every single detail to be addressed, that would be extreme, but one example of my frustration, is that in "Follow The Leader" with that final climatic ending scene on Splinter revealing to Leo about Karai. How could that at least not be somewhat addressed or talked about for 30 seconds in "Target: April O' Neil" when Karai is back and fights Leo? I mean the show built up all that suspense for it last time concerning Karai, and it just doesn't follow through on what its considering important.

Another gripe, was Nick Mikey using the mutagen on "Mikey Gets Shellacne", I mean Timothy was horrifically mutating in front of him and if we are to assume Nick Mikey has normal intelligence (as some fans were heavily arguing for earlier), how could the show implicitly trivialize a scene that was so dark?

Or when these Foot-bots can be an extreme challenge to the Turtles' fighting even with Leo commenting that they know "every move" he makes and Karai gloating about them in "Follow The Leader", but yet two ordinary teenagers can elude them in "Target: April O'Neil".

Things like that I'm complaining about, where the show (at least to me) emotionally misleads the audience on what was serious and important before, is later considered not as important or serious if you think back from a continuity perspective. Again, if it wasn't for 4Kids having its consistent continuity for a "kids show", I wouldn't have even bothered honestly, but the 4Kids show demonstrated that kids can reasonably follow and appreciate a series that does. It really doesn't matter how light or dark a cartoon is (hey I mean I prefer the OT still ), but if its going to insert these intense dramatic subplots/arcs it would be nice to see it followed through with the same intensity, as show conveyed, as it did coming in.

I'm willing to let a story/show take me to wherever it wants to go, but it has to maintain the gravitas "rules" and follow the logic rules it creates on its own, if a show wants its viewers to expect character growth and to take that growth seriously.

[Michelangelo]

The follow the leader point makes sense from what you said, but it's always done like this in shows. I simply take it as it wasn't important at the time to bring up at the time and Leo is tactical and thoughtful so it does make sense.
The Mikey thing with the shellacne. Mikey said he though it would make him cool and Mikey is not smart. So no problems there on that one making sense.
The footbots knowing all the moves of an enemy against Casey and April, well they were new to the footbots so perhaps they a took a bit for the bots to get use to and maybe Casey and April were just adaptive enough, they seemed like it from the show. The fact that they didn't know about that function didn't matter, all that mattered was them beating them and they did. That was what was important and from a director's view I get that.
Besides, Karai might ask Leo why he never brought up the issue when earlier he knew about it. The show may surprise on those points, or not.
Clearly to me the shows they did were not concerned about those points you made as they were not the focus and would have puts those episodes out of focus as to what they were all about. It was a tricky thing to do to step over all those points but they did it well enough for my liking. They'll come back to the Karai thing when they're ready and now's not the time for it. I'm watch the OT again now and boy are there some stupid things happening in those episodes. All the same I love them. Not everything in a show has to be shown for it to make sense, it happens. The emotional sub plots are handle well enough. I actually like that they break things up from week to week and when they get back the main story arcs everything just carries on from where it's up to.
I can see your point about being ticked off about the things you mention, but I think the show will deliver more powerful moments as it already has that will be memorable and awesome to boot.

[Candy Kappa]

I wonder if the Footbots had issues with adapting to walking on ice. do combat and adapt after their combatant at the same time.

maybe we'll see Footbots 2.0 later down the road.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Michelangelo

The follow the leader point makes sense from what you said, but it's always done like this in shows. I simply take it as it wasn't important at the time to bring up at the time and Leo is tactical and thoughtful so it does make sense.
The Mikey thing with the shellacne. Mikey said he though it would make him cool and Mikey is not smart. So no problems there on that one making sense.
The footbots knowing all the moves of an enemy against Casey and April, well they were new to the footbots so perhaps they a took a bit for the bots to get use to and maybe Casey and April were just adaptive enough, they seemed like it from the show. The fact that they didn't know about that function didn't matter, all that mattered was them beating them and they did. That was what was important and from a director's view I get that.
Besides, Karai might ask Leo why he never brought up the issue when earlier he knew about it. The show may surprise on those points, or not.
Clearly to me the shows they did were not concerned about those points you made as they were not the focus and would have puts those episodes out of focus as to what they were all about. It was a tricky thing to do to step over all those points but they did it well enough for my liking. They'll come back to the Karai thing when they're ready and now's not the time for it. I'm watch the OT again now and boy are there some stupid things happening in those episodes. All the same I love them. Not everything in a show has to be shown for it to make sense, it happens. The emotional sub plots are handle well enough. I actually like that they break things up from week to week and when they get back the main story arcs everything just carries on from where it's up to.
I can see your point about being ticked off about the things you mention, but I think the show will deliver more powerful moments as it already has that will be memorable and awesome to boot.

At least with the OT it had some humility, in which the characters were self-aware of their own outlandish plots (especially with OT Raphael) and joked on what didn't make sense in the series. As in "Farewell Lotus Blossom" and "Usagi Yojimbo", as to why the Japanese characters could speak English so well, or the repetitive nature of the mad scientists in "Rebel Without A Fin", or how ridiculous the plot was in "The Big Cufflink Caper!"

But I'm digressing, but yeah... in regards about the Nick show being "not concerned". The Nick series fooled me then in thinking those points were important, at least from a gravitas perspective, but whatever. I would have "thought" those serious, poignant moments (Timothy's mutation and Splinter's reveal to Leo about Karai) were important enough to be more easily recalled for the characters though, but I guess not.

But hey, I admire that you have so much optimism for the series (wish I could do the same ), but I'm not counting the series completely out or anything. Just at this point in the series (33 episodes in), I'm not... uniquely impressed as I was with the OT and 4Kids when I viewed them as an adult again with the same amount of episodes.

[Michelangelo]

I'm not that impressed with the OT as I was when I was younger, but that's just the way some things are. I still enjoy them, the OT. The new show is doing some very different things and for long time fans there are sure to be things that are not everyone's liking.
The new figure for Casey has him wearing his new look mask and I don't like it. However there is some semblance to the true look I guess. I was a bit disappointed too that Mikey took that mutagen, it didn't make a lot of sense given the pulveriser thing but they did explain it as Mikey being dumb and although that might have worked for the show I still felt a bit gipped by it. Once I got over it and carried on with the episode I really enjoyed it. If there's one thing about this new TMNT series that has been done well it's that it's fun. New things such as having Casey and April as teenagers is very different but it works really well. For purists it's a no no, but for those who are open enough there is a lot to enjoy here. Really enjoyed the shredder splinter fight, really enjoyed Raph being scared of the cockroach, loved the follow the leader episode with the focus on Leo. I've seen worse renditions of old shows I use to watch, so bad and terrible they defy any sense. This TMNT series is really great for what it is. Hopefully one day someone will take the show into a more adult focus and turn it into a show like Buffy or Angel or something. That would be so awesome, but one can only hope.

[miru]

We're talking of random mutants, not the quality of the show. I think all these miscellaneous mutants will bring in Agent Bishop to capture them all.

[Toadtrooper]

Originally Posted by Michelangelo

It's a 'children's' show, get over it.
If you watch the first series from the '80's then you can see that it was technically flawed storywise with all it's nonsensical episodes.
If you're after something that is so sophisticated watch breaking bad or something.

If I want sophisticated, I'll go watch the How To Train Your Dragon cartoon. It's one of the best things on television, period, because it writes for a younger audience without assuming that younger audience is too stupid to notice mediocre writing or gaps in continuity.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Monkey see, monkey do. With extreme strength. Spike stated that he have watched the turtles train, and have learned from that.

He says it. He doesn't do it. Show, don't tell.

Besides, if Spike had seen any of the actual training, he'd know that Raph's siblings, as well as Splinter, all care about him and value his role on the team. It wouldn't be the 100% negative viewpoint he'd get from being stuck in a Raph-says vacuum.



I really can't wait to see how their shoehorn Bebop and Rocksteady into this continuity. I bet Casey Jones has a band, and two of its members get mutated at the zoo. Wow, it's so pointless it might actually be true.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Michelangelo

Good points of observation there Candy Kappa.
Slash needed credibility for his skills and the whole watching the turtles train thing, which is derivative of splinter, was good enough to give it. All that mutagen certainly made slash powerful just like the other mutants in the show. All of them have been strong and dangerous but it has been the turtles overwhelming ninja skills that have kept them in the winner's circle, that and the script. Everything in the show does make sense, it's a just a matter of accepting the reasons given. I mean who ever heard of mutagen anyway, let alone having it turn turtles into walking talking ninjas. Now that just makes absolute sense. It's a 'children's' show, it doesn't have to make sense but this TMNT does a good job of making sense. Thumbs up to Nick and the team.

The thing is... they weren't walking talking ninjas. They were mutated into average joes. Splinter had to train them from the ground up. Slash somehow mutated in a battle-hardened powerhouse since day one.

[Michelangelo]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

The thing is... they weren't walking talking ninjas. They were mutated into average joes. Splinter had to train them from the ground up. Slash somehow mutated in a battle-hardened powerhouse since day one.

That's because he watched them train. That and the magic of the mutagen.
The turtles never got to watch anyone train, they were just average turtles.

There'll be more mutants that come along, and when they do they'll be ready for action. No point in having mutants that aren't battle ready, what would the show be like then? It'd suck. Thankfully Nick is doing the right thing with the show because there is a lot to enjoy there.

The fact that they are leaving the main story for a while is good as they are building up the TMNT universe with heaps of characters to use along the way so that hopefully the series lasts even longer than it's predecessors.

[chrisdude]

I think what's implied, by Slash knowing Raph's moves, is that he was already smart enough to understand all of it, before mutating. Like Splinter, in the movie universe. I assumed he had formed his opinion of the other turtles before mutating, as well. Maybe the mutagen doesn't actually make animals smarter, just more physically capable of doing what's been pent up, inside.

[Michelangelo]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

I think what's implied, by Slash knowing Raph's moves, is that he was already smart enough to understand all of it, before mutating. Like Splinter, in the movie universe. I assumed he had formed his opinion of the other turtles before mutating, as well. Maybe the mutagen doesn't actually make animals smarter, just more physically capable of doing what's been pent up, inside.

Totally agree.
I don't feel there's any need to over think it and your comments really cover it all very well.

Similar reasoning will no doubt be used for future mutants, whether they be direct mutants like slash or cross mutants like Kirby.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Michelangelo

Totally agree.
I don't feel there's any need to over think it and your comments really cover it all very well.

Similar reasoning will no doubt be used for future mutants, whether they be direct mutants like slash or cross mutants like Kirby.

Slash is probably the only one that has no real excuse. All the other mutants have either been fighters when they were human, or just use the natural talents given to them in their new form. Like Snakeweed not even knowing he could regrow his limbs until after the fact. I just find it hard to complain cause... hey, Slash. I guess we can excuse him cause he was lucky enough to mutate into a mountain of muscle instead of a scrawny average guy, but still, having enough skill to outfight Raph with actual technique.... kinda questionable there.