Are Kids Getting Dumber?

[CyberCubed]

The Nick show is their highest rated cartoon after Spongebob. I expect 7 seasons and 150 episodes at the minimum before it ends. The fact that we've already renewed through Season 4 when Season 2 hasn't ended yet says a lot.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The Nick show is their highest rated cartoon after Spongebob. I expect 7 seasons and 150 episodes at the minimum before it ends. The fact that we've already renewed through Season 4 when Season 2 hasn't ended yet says a lot.

So you are going to make a hasty generalization by using that one piece of information from May 2014 alone? When there are other pieces of information contradicting that notion? Okay... **sigh**

Maybe if you actually tried to bring up citations of your own to support your own conclusions, maybe others (like myself) in this forum would be more accepting of them.

[Cure]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

Citation please.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...uts-475-649396

Viewership has nothing to do it. It's a merchandise juggernaut. Face it, CyberCubed is right this time.

[Allio]

honestly, Korra just isn't good.

[MrTMNT2012]

Originally Posted by Allio

honestly, Korra just isn't good.

Have you seen Season 3?

Speaking of Korra, the Season 2 Finale was the most streamed/viewed digital Nickelodeon Event of all time!

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Cure

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...uts-475-649396

Viewership has nothing to do it. It's a merchandise juggernaut. Face it, CyberCubed is right this time.

Hmmm... possibly...
I think I addressed it earlier:

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

As optimistic as this article is, it seems more of an advertisement "earnings report" for investors from the Nick executives, so the source of the information is somewhat biased though. I wonder if its truly as successful as they hoped for, since the show incorporated so many OT elements, and did Nick wish to replicate the whole TurtleMania craze back in the late 80s to early 90s? (I mean lets face it, that's probably the primary reason why Nick wanted to acquire TMNT.) So it begs the question then, how much pressure are the Nick executives placing on Ciro and the writing staff?

And once more:

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

I'm not too surprised myself, but as I mentioned in my first post, the source and quotes are mostly from all of the Nick executives (and not from an entertainment industry analyst), so to me at least, it seems like an advertising earnings report. I don't know how much we can truly scale its "success" if we were to compare it to 4Kids and OT eras without having their gross earnings figures as well.

As much as us fans want this show/franchise to be altruistic to us, its not. If we want our beloved Turtles franchise to live on, it's gotta make substantial profit for business. It's the cold, hard truth about the entertainment industry. I'm pretty sure the lure for Nick obtaining the TMNT rights is because they are mesmerized by the outrageous profit Turtlemania made, and now since they have acquired it, they probably assume that they can make the "best investment" out of it since it is now in the full control of big business. Whether that's true or not, only time will tell.

If there was another article or two about the success, then I would lean more toward CyberCubed's position, but with that particular article a certain amount of skepticism arises from it.

First such as, "Okay it's made $475 million in a year in revenue, but what's the actual profit?" If we subtract the $60 million for acquiring TMNT, then the manufacturing costs, the labor, the transportation of the merchandise, and the advertising, what's truly left over? Plus it says "consumer products", so how much of that is from the Nick's line and not from nostalgia sales (anything OT or 4Kids related) in relation to DVDs, T-shirts/clothes, and other more nostalgia-related products boosted from advertising TMNT back in the mainstream?

Second, this success has to be framed correctly. To us "common folk", it looks like a huge amount of money, but if we put it in a big business perspective it may not be as successful as we think. For example, if this was the revenue for a film generating $475 million worldwide, wouldn't it be a moderate hit? I know that merchandising and the film-making industry are two separate things, but if we have nothing to really concretely compare this figure to anything of the past or current, it's hard to rate this merchandising's degree of success.

Third, have you noticed that most to all of these quotes in that article were from Nickelodeon or Viacom? (The company that owns the Turtles.) Such as:
--Pam Kaufman, chief marketing officer and president, consumer products at Nickelodeon.
--Ron Johnson, who earlier this year was promoted to the role of executive vp of Nickelodeon and Viacom consumer products at Viacom International Media Networks.
Now isn't that a bit suspicious? I mean would a company actually admit publicly, that sales/merchandise was not a big hit? Just something to think about.

Fourth, some pieces of information actually opened up more questions than I thought:

According to licensing industry experts, the first-year Turtles consumer products haul handily exceeded the property's annual retail sales in the years before Nickelodeon acquired and reinvigorated it.

Naturally with comparing the first-year of TMNT merchandise with the Nick series ariring, to the merchandise the year before it aired, will yield "reinvigorated" sales.

The Nickelodeon executives touted the strong sales of Turtles action figures. Kaufman said they make up about 15 percent of toy figure sales in the U.S. "Nothing's bigger," Kaufman told THR. "We are beating Iron Man, Batman, WWE."

Perhaps "nothing bigger", but only 15 percent (according to Kaufman now)? What's making up the other 85 percent anyways? It may be beating Iron Man, Batman, and WWE, but what are the other franchises that have a much bigger slice of the pie?


With all that being said , if there were one or two articles which are not mostly quoted from the Nick executives about TMNT's success, and had concrete, comparative figures on a much wider perspective, then I would shift more toward CyberCubed's position. But until then... Typically, I would assume that there's a direct relationship between viewership and merchandise sales as we've seen with other big franchise hits with Turtlemania, Pokemon, etc. But it would be a little odd to declare a franchise a pop cultural "hit" with lukewarm viewership, but having huge merchandise sales. ...Right?

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

Originally Posted by Powder

Kids have never been one to seek out thought provoking material. Not on a grand scale, anyway. Dunno where you're coming from on that front.

I was actually just thinking today how that shows from my generation that have held up well like Ducktales were shows that had a sort of historical perspective or something like that. I really loved that about Ducktales and it is still my all time favorite show and it still rocks. But I was literally just thinking today that I wonder if it doesn't hold up so well for me because it had more "adult" themes since it was based a lot on lore, mythology, history, etc. The Real Ghostbusters is my second favorite show and it still rocks as well. I loved it then too but never really knew how much it drew from mythology until later in life. So I can't say I "sought it out" for that reason as a kid. As a kid, I thought they were awesome characters and had cool gadgets and drove a cool car and were adventurous. That is really what drew me to it. I think kids now and even my 80s generation just seek out what seems "cool" and not what is "artsy" or "deep". That is what we "grown ups" do.

[Peanut]

Armchair analyst at work, folks! Everybody look out, he's got it a figured out.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

I wouldn't call kids stupid for liking shows like "Breadwinners" and "Spongebob" even if I classify those shows as dumb myself. It's just that kids enjoy things like toilet humor and funny situations and can laugh at them because they think they're funny. It's like how I used to be obsessed with The Smurfs when I was a kid, but now when I look at it, I think to myself, "Why the hell did I ever like this show?" I'm sure kids of today will look back at the shows they used to watch as kids and think the same thing. But that doesn't mean they're dumb or stupid for not watching an in depth show like Legend of Korra. They probably just don't understand the reasoning behind it and can't follow the story like we can.

I was just telling someone today how well The Smurfs still hold up! LOL! The animation was great and I still love Gargamel and Clumsy and Brainy and Hefty.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Armchair analyst at work, folks! Everybody look out, he's got it a figured out.

What can I say **shrug**, I can't always take claims at face value sometimes.

[Slade]

Well, I don't know about dumber, or if it actually has anything to do with tv shows, but I do think kids these days are more naive. I don't mean teens, but more the 7,8,9, year olds. I know some who have no clue of some of the things I knew when I was their age.

Although, I these kids I know are shelterd and I wasn't so my point may be moot.

[Cure]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

blah blah

Uh-huh. I know your type; you wanna spin and over analyze everything until it fits whatever you want, even when you already have the answers right in front of you. Whatevs, man, continue your crusade. I'm sure you'll convince someone.

[CyberCubed]

I think Batman: Brave and the Bold was a perfect example of doing a light-hearted and fun superhero show that was also well written and enjoyable for adults.

There's a reason Brave and the Bold was the most popular Batman cartoon since B:TAS...whereas The Batman was kind of forgettable and Beware the Batman completely bombed.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Cure

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...pse0be2788.gif

Uh-huh. I know your type; you wanna spin and over analyze everything until it fits whatever you want. Whatevs, man, continue your crusade. I'm sure you'll convince someone.

Well back in the Season 2 info thread, I did point out, that the series did reach the number two spot in May 2014 (which CyberCubed used I'm assuming) where it wouldn't appear that post was so negative and could hint at potentially changing things, but it's too early to say. **shrug** It's just checking on websites like By the Numbers and The Futon Critic, they are telling me a mainstream contradiction to the devoted fan reception of Nick TMNT. At least I try to use different sources for my arguments rather than just focusing on one article alone. **shrug** I would love for others to present just as many articles and detailed arguments against my position so I can refine my accuracy with this topic. (That's why I welcome Leo656's arguments, even if I disagree with him, because he thoroughly explains his position and viewpoint.) ...And who knows maybe it is too early to declare it lukewarm successful, since it still surely has time to gain a lot of momentum, but it's just at this moment of time, that's how I'm seeing things.

But it's cool if you don't want to read it, it's just with competition and money involved, I'm just skeptical of claims (that particular Hollywood Reporter article gets its information from the company itself, from a marketing executive no less, and not an independent source; how can I not be skeptical?), especially when some claim we are revisiting Turtlemania currently when the success trajectories of both series/periods are not lining up. **shrug** As for my analytical tendencies , well I'm sure you've seen that throughout my history of posts and not just with Nick TMNT.

[snake]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

http://38.media.tumblr.com/8dbc2eb17...z5a3o8_250.gif

Well back in the Season 2 info thread, I did point out, that the series did reach the number two spot in May 2014 (which CyberCubed used I'm assuming) where it wouldn't appear that post was so negative and could hint at potentially changing things, but it's too early to say. **shrug** It's just checking on websites like By the Numbers and The Futon Critic, they are telling me a mainstream contradiction to the devoted fan reception of Nick TMNT. At least I try to use different sources for my arguments rather than just focusing on one article alone. **shrug** I would love for others to present just as many articles and detailed arguments against my position so I can refine my accuracy with this topic. (That's why I welcome Leo656's arguments, even if I disagree with him, because he thoroughly explains his position and viewpoint.) ...And who knows maybe it is too early to declare it lukewarm successful, since it still surely has time to gain a lot of momentum, but it's just at this moment of time, that's how I'm seeing things.

But it's cool if you don't want to read it, it's just with competition and money involved, I'm just skeptical of claims (that particular Hollywood Reporter article gets its information from the company itself, from a marketing executive no less, and not an independent source; how can I not be skeptical?), especially when some claim we are revisiting Turtlemania currently when the success trajectories of both series/periods are not lining up. **shrug** As for my analytical tendencies , well I'm sure you've seen that throughout my history of posts and not just with Nick TMNT.

Spoiler:

......**shrug**

[Cure]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

(That's why I welcome Leo656's arguments, even if I disagree with him, because he thoroughly explains his position and viewpoint.) .

Pointless rambling without any facts or sources is a good argument to you. Right.

[As for my analytical tendencies , well I'm sure you've seen that throughout my history of posts and not just with Nick TMNT

That's assuming I've ever noticed you before now.

[Casey]

Originally Posted by MrTMNT2012

So the recent pulling of The Legend of Korra lead me to asking this question.

With beautiful and sophisticated cartoon shows like Young Justice and Korra getting pulled off TV due to low ratings, why do shows like Breadwinners and Spongebob that continue to devour whatever intelligence kids have while watching them continue to thrive in ratings?

Most of these ratings are due to the kids. Do they just not want to be challenged anymore?

I hate to sound like a hipster but back in my day, I remember every kid watching series like Batman: The Animated Series or Gargoyles instead of shows like Doug!

Are Kids getting dumber in terms of their entertainment in TV?

Think of some of the ridiculous cartoons from the 80s. I think every generation looks at the children of the next and wonders this.

[Sumac]

No.
It's just you have acquired oldfart snobby attitude towards young generation, which is fairly typical thing for the most people.

The Real Ghostbusters is my second favorite show and it still rocks as well.

It was one of my favorite toons back when I was a kid.
I have watched couple of episodes a year ago...and it was horrible. Well, maybe it were praticularly bad episodes, but still.

[Leofan26]

It's not that, just the quality dropped a lot regarding TV.

Plus all the Networks aren't helping by advertising all those top rated shows that have went down hill after a number of seasons and not giving new shows with better quality a chance unless it hits those numbers.

So, due to that kids these days have no other choice but to watch that kind of crap. Look at what happened to Legend of Korra for gosh sakes

[pennydreadful]

I don't care what kids today watch; I just can't understand their obsession with mobile phones!