Do you think the Nick series is using too many Fred Wolf elements?

*Papenbrook* · 07-27-2014, 04:23 AM

I respect the people who like the OT series. However, the Nick show needs to develop on its own, and I don't think adding OT elements and pandering to the OT fanbase is doing it any justice. The show is adding WAY too many Fred Wolf elements. I don't want to have to quit the show. I think the show should be more original, with new, distinctive storylines.

**Jester** · 07-27-2014, 04:31 AM

No....no I don't.

*Eiko* · 07-27-2014, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Kraken

I respect the people who like the OT series. However, the Nick show needs to develop on its own, and I don't think adding OT elements and pandering to the OT fanbase is doing it any justice. The show is adding WAY too many Fred Wolf elements. I don't want to have to quit the show. I think the show should be more original, with new, distinctive storylines.

Yes I agree.

evan2000 · 07-27-2014, 05:51 AM

Would you have complained if they were also taking elements from the 4kids series and comics?

Because... they did!

We have the Purple Dragons, Foot Clan, Karai, the entire TCRI/Trans-dimesional portal stuff and Kraang/Utrom Droids all coming straight from 4kids, which in turn came from the comics.

On top of that, there were so many characters in Nick that resemble closer to their 4kids counterpart than Fred Wolf's, such as:

- Raphael (being a hot head, hates bugs)
- Casey Jones (younger but still...)
- Baxter Stockman & Mousers
- Leatherhead (origin and look)
- Shredder (being a serious threat)

Also the upcoming Leo one-shot/North Hampton arc is going to be an obvious nod to the 4kids/comics version. And I'm sure it will be followed by the Return to New York arc after that.

By the time the Triceratons and possibly Fugitoid, Usagi, Foot Elite etc. appear, I guess people will start complaining that Nick is taking too many elements from 4kids

I personally think it's completely ok for Ciro to reimagine characters, story arcs and other elements from ANY past series or media as long as it makes sense and adds value to the Nick show. Nick owns the entire franchise anyway and would do what it needs to do to make it better. The combination of new and old elements so far has been awesome!

*Powder* · 07-27-2014, 05:54 AM

Literally all of the "4kids" stuff you listed is not original or exclusive to the 4kids series. It's Mirage.

Pulling from 4kids would mean using 4kids characters: Bishop, Hun, etc, or plots, such as the Battle Nexus, Ninja Tribunal, & so on.

& Raph being angry, Shredder being tough, the inclusion of Casey Jones?!... C'mon, really? I don't think I've ever seen anyone reaching that hard.

The only thing that is directly from 4kids is that Karai is Shredder's daughter, granted it's done much differently.

Tazi · 07-27-2014, 06:14 AM

Yes, they do!
They really shouldn't revive every dumb character from the past like Pizzaface combined with new crap like alien-ripoff squirrels. Especially since there are far more interesting characters then those in other TMNT media. Hell, even Fred Wolf has a ton of much better characters, I'd rather see then Muckman or Mutagen Man. (tho at least Mutagen Man turned out good)

evan2000 · 07-27-2014, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

Literally all of the "4kids" stuff you listed is not original or exclusive to the 4kids series. It's Mirage.

Pulling from 4kids would mean using 4kids characters: Bishop, Hun, etc, or plots, such as the Battle Nexus, Ninja Tribunal, & so on.

& Raph being angry, Shredder being tough, the inclusion of Casey Jones?!... C'mon, really? I don't think I've ever seen anyone reaching that hard.

The only thing that is directly from 4kids is that Karai is Shredder's daughter, granted it's done much differently.

Yes I did acknowledge the 4kids stuff in turn came from the comics. I know that.

And I'm not "reaching hard" to say the inclusion Casey Jones is something. You got me wrong. I meant to say the character has a closer resemblance to 4kids/Mirage than OT. Being Raphael's rival turned buddy and all. You gotta give me that!

And since you mentioned Ninja Tribunal - does Mystic Ninja Turtle ring any bells? With each turtle tied to a certain nature's element, no?

MST3KFan · 07-27-2014, 07:18 AM

Weren't people complaining before when the Nick toon tried doing its own spin as it is?

The whole April O'Neil thing, for example...

*drgon78* · 07-27-2014, 07:20 AM

No, I don't think they are.

Aaronardo · 07-27-2014, 08:03 AM

Yes, it was clever callbacks before, but now it's kind of ridiculous. I wish I could see more Nick-exclusive things, since I liked those so far.

Tora · 07-27-2014, 09:29 AM

I like the callbacks to the wolf series as it seems they are targeting kids who have parents that grew up watching and buying the 87 stuff. The 87 show was a huge hit so I get why they would go back to that well and reuse many elements from it plus I think a lot of it is fan service to the older crowd which is kinda cool when you think about it.

Depending how long this show runs we may start seeing some of the 4kids elements pop up but maybe they are not using them because that series was so recent. Plus I believe Ciro grew up watching the 87 toon so it makes sense he would used that as a template to build on. I do agree though they should make some more new characters for this series.

*Warhorse* · 07-27-2014, 09:34 AM

Yes. At first, it was cute/clever, but now I'm finding myself groaning whenever there is a reference.

*miru* · 07-27-2014, 10:09 AM

I'd like them to use more original concepts. TigerClaw was a nice start.

EDIT: Considering the target audience either doesn't know or barely knows about the old characters, it's semi-justified.

*Whatswiththeheadbands?* · 07-27-2014, 10:12 AM

Yes. Far too many. to me, it's starting to seem too much like a OT Remake.

I wish they would take some elements from the 2003 series as well to balance it out abit.

*JTH* · 07-27-2014, 10:21 AM

This is a franchise with 30 years of characters and stories, take advantage of it. Regardless of what incarnation it is, as long as it's fresh and it's own take.

Hell, the fact that they are even able to come up with as much original material they have is impressive enough with everything that's been used in TMNT.

Rukitron · 07-27-2014, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evan2000

And since you mentioned Ninja Tribunal - does Mystic Ninja Turtle ring any bells? With each turtle tied to a certain nature's element, no?

http://i.toynewsi.com/g/generated/20...scaled_800.jpg

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps8728a5ed.jpg

what book is that?

They've done enough to keep original it's at least not a super copy paste, but I do feel like they've completely neglected or altered their original concepts for some reason like Xever and Bradford. Xever is pretty much now a joke this season and Bradford got double mutated and changed to Rahzar.

*neatoman* · 07-27-2014, 11:29 AM

Too much?... Yeah kind of. The problem is not that it has nods to the Fred Wolf cartoon but that said nods seem a bit forced or shallow and end being pointless easter eggs as a result rather than something improving the series itself.

As some examples, renaming the Utroms "Kraang" is pointless and when the Technodrome shows up, it does so without explaination nor foreshadowing. It's also just dubbed the Technodrome by the Turtles out of nowhere midway through season 2.

I dislike the Fred Wolf series but I have no problem with elements of it being used if it's used well. Like the Nick show, the IDW comics jumble Krang, the Utroms and the Technodrome but does so far better. Krang co-exist with the Utroms without any forced compromise, he has a clear goal in mind and the Technodrome does not just pop up out of nowhere, it has been established from the start. I feel that the IDW series use the Fred Wolf elements to it's benefit while the Nick show just do it to please shallow 30 year olds who don't like the show because it's new... Or they lack the the talent to make it meaningful, either way it's not well done.

As for too much, let's just say this:
Turtles Forever was the finale of the 2003 series after 7 seasons and also featured the Mirage turtles and glimpses of many other versions.
The Nick show decided to have two cameos of the Fred Wolf turtles midway through season 2 and might make an even bigger crossover soon...

Speaking of the 2003 series, it does seem like all you would have to do is introduce any of Hun, Bishop or the Battle Nexus and it's fans would be more pleased with the easter eggs.

*Warhorse* · 07-27-2014, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

Too much?... Yeah kind of. The problem is not that it has nods to the Fred Wolf cartoon but that said nods seem a bit forced or shallow and end being pointless easter eggs as a result rather than something improving the series itself.

As some examples, renaming the Utroms "Kraang" is pointless and when the Technodrome shows up, it does so without explaination nor foreshadowing. It's also just dubbed the Technodrome by the Turtles out of nowhere midway through season 2.

I dislike the Fred Wolf series but I have no problem with elements of it being used if it's used well. Like the Nick show, the IDW comics jumble Krang, the Utroms and the Technodrome but does so far better. Krang co-exist with the Utroms without any forced compromise, he has a clear goal in mind and the Technodrome does not just pop up out of nowhere, it has been established from the start. I feel that the IDW series use the Fred Wolf elements to it's benefit while the Nick show just do it to please shallow 30 year olds who don't like the show because it's new... Or they lack the the talent to make it meaningful, either way it's not well done.

As for too much, let's just say this:
Turtles Forever was the finale of the 2003 series after 7 seasons and also featured the Mirage turtles and glimpses of many other versions.
The Nick show decided to have two cameos of the Fred Wolf turtles midway through season 2 and might make an even bigger crossover soon...

Speaking of the 2003 series, it does seem like all you would have to do is introduce any of Hun, Bishop or the Battle Nexus and it's fans would be more pleased with the easter eggs.

Especially Bishop. I'm surprised they haven't given him a cameo , or something similar (like how the Krang are more or less, impersonating Vernon from the OT) they could have a Bishop like FBI agent investigating the mysterious disappearance of Bradford and other citizens of the area, or trying to get to bottom of the alien invasion and what not.

Midnight Mutant · 07-27-2014, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

It's also just dubbed the Technodrome by the Turtles out of nowhere midway through season 2.
.

I could have sworn Kirby told them it was called the Technodrome. The naming wasn't random.

Leofan26 · 07-27-2014, 01:50 PM

A little bit, wish the guy would stop acting like the 2003 series never happened and used some elements or characters from it,.

I do like the new spins on it though. I'd love it if they brought that one ninja girl back in this show too but alas.

07-27-2014, 04:23 AM	#1
Papenbrook I'm leaving. Goodbye. :) Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: No comment -_- ... Posts: 2,754	Do you think the Nick series is using too many Fred Wolf elements? I respect the people who like the OT series. However, the Nick show needs to develop on its own, and I don't think adding OT elements and pandering to the OT fanbase is doing it any justice. The show is adding WAY too many Fred Wolf elements. I don't want to have to quit the show. I think the show should be more original, with new, distinctive storylines.

07-27-2014, 04:31 AM	#2
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,300	No....no I don't. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

07-27-2014, 06:14 AM	#6
Tazi Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Budapest, Hungary Posts: 1,088	Yes, they do! They really shouldn't revive every dumb character from the past like Pizzaface combined with new crap like alien-ripoff squirrels. Especially since there are far more interesting characters then those in other TMNT media. Hell, even Fred Wolf has a ton of much better characters, I'd rather see then Muckman or Mutagen Man. (tho at least Mutagen Man turned out good) __________________

07-27-2014, 08:03 AM	#10
Aaronardo Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: :noitacoL Posts: 1,043	Yes, it was clever callbacks before, but now it's kind of ridiculous. I wish I could see more Nick-exclusive things, since I liked those so far. __________________ "Shredder, you gotta listen to reason!" - Leonardo "Oh Turtles! Oh Turtles! Chew your gum properly." "If I miss this week's Kirby, heads are gonna roll." - Raphael "The Biosites have almost finished healing my flesh." - Shredder "Because we're takin' the heart and you're goin' to jail!" - Donatello

07-27-2014, 10:09 AM	#13
miru Mad Scientist Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,874	I'd like them to use more original concepts. TigerClaw was a nice start. EDIT: Considering the target audience either doesn't know or barely knows about the old characters, it's semi-justified. __________________ Proud Digimon nut.

07-27-2014, 05:51 AM	#4
evan2000 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Malaysia Posts: 858	Would you have complained if they were also taking elements from the 4kids series and comics? Because... they did! We have the Purple Dragons, Foot Clan, Karai, the entire TCRI/Trans-dimesional portal stuff and Kraang/Utrom Droids all coming straight from 4kids, which in turn came from the comics. On top of that, there were so many characters in Nick that resemble closer to their 4kids counterpart than Fred Wolf's, such as: - Raphael (being a hot head, hates bugs) - Casey Jones (younger but still...) - Baxter Stockman & Mousers - Leatherhead (origin and look) - Shredder (being a serious threat) Also the upcoming Leo one-shot/North Hampton arc is going to be an obvious nod to the 4kids/comics version. And I'm sure it will be followed by the Return to New York arc after that. By the time the Triceratons and possibly Fugitoid, Usagi, Foot Elite etc. appear, I guess people will start complaining that Nick is taking too many elements from 4kids I personally think it's completely ok for Ciro to reimagine characters, story arcs and other elements from *ANY* past series or media as long as it makes sense and adds value to the Nick show. Nick owns the entire franchise anyway and would do what it needs to do to make it better. The combination of new and old elements so far has been awesome!

07-27-2014, 05:54 AM	#5
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,954	Literally all of the "4kids" stuff you listed is not original or exclusive to the 4kids series. It's Mirage. Pulling from 4kids would mean using 4kids characters: Bishop, Hun, etc, or plots, such as the Battle Nexus, Ninja Tribunal, & so on. & Raph being angry, Shredder being tough, the inclusion of Casey Jones?!... C'mon, really? I don't think I've ever seen anyone reaching that hard. The only thing that is directly from 4kids is that Karai is Shredder's daughter, granted it's done much differently.

07-27-2014, 07:18 AM	#8
MST3KFan Hench Mutant Join Date: May 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 485	Weren't people complaining before when the Nick toon tried doing its own spin as it is? The whole April O'Neil thing, for example...

07-27-2014, 07:20 AM	#9
drgon78 Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 2,405	No, I don't think they are.

07-27-2014, 09:29 AM	#11
Tora Hench Mutant Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 254	I like the callbacks to the wolf series as it seems they are targeting kids who have parents that grew up watching and buying the 87 stuff. The 87 show was a huge hit so I get why they would go back to that well and reuse many elements from it plus I think a lot of it is fan service to the older crowd which is kinda cool when you think about it. Depending how long this show runs we may start seeing some of the 4kids elements pop up but maybe they are not using them because that series was so recent. Plus I believe Ciro grew up watching the 87 toon so it makes sense he would used that as a template to build on. I do agree though they should make some more new characters for this series.

07-27-2014, 09:34 AM	#12
Warhorse Emperor Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 5,544	Yes. At first, it was cute/clever, but now I'm finding myself groaning whenever there is a reference.

07-27-2014, 10:12 AM	#14
Whatswiththeheadbands? The Weed of Crime Join Date: May 2013 Location: The Shadow's Sanctum Posts: 3,007	Yes. Far too many. to me, it's starting to seem too much like a OT Remake. I wish they would take some elements from the 2003 series as well to balance it out abit. __________________ Who knows what Evil lurks in the hearts of Men? The Shadow knows...

07-27-2014, 10:21 AM	#15
JTH "ME" Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,660	This is a franchise with 30 years of characters and stories, take advantage of it. Regardless of what incarnation it is, as long as it's fresh and it's own take. Hell, the fact that they are even able to come up with as much original material they have is impressive enough with everything that's been used in TMNT.

07-27-2014, 11:29 AM	#17
neatoman Overlord Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Stockholm Posts: 11,085	Too much?... Yeah kind of. The problem is not that it has nods to the Fred Wolf cartoon but that said nods seem a bit forced or shallow and end being pointless easter eggs as a result rather than something improving the series itself. As some examples, renaming the Utroms "Kraang" is pointless and when the Technodrome shows up, it does so without explaination nor foreshadowing. It's also just dubbed the Technodrome by the Turtles out of nowhere midway through season 2. I dislike the Fred Wolf series but I have no problem with elements of it being used if it's used well. Like the Nick show, the IDW comics jumble Krang, the Utroms and the Technodrome but does so far better. Krang co-exist with the Utroms without any forced compromise, he has a clear goal in mind and the Technodrome does not just pop up out of nowhere, it has been established from the start. I feel that the IDW series use the Fred Wolf elements to it's benefit while the Nick show just do it to please shallow 30 year olds who don't like the show because it's new... Or they lack the the talent to make it meaningful, either way it's not well done. As for too much, let's just say this: Turtles Forever was the finale of the 2003 series after 7 seasons and also featured the Mirage turtles and glimpses of many other versions. The Nick show decided to have two cameos of the Fred Wolf turtles midway through season 2 and might make an even bigger crossover soon... Speaking of the 2003 series, it does seem like all you would have to do is introduce any of Hun, Bishop or the Battle Nexus and it's fans would be more pleased with the easter eggs.

07-27-2014, 01:50 PM	#20
Leofan26 Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,306	A little bit, wish the guy would stop acting like the 2003 series never happened and used some elements or characters from it,. I do like the new spins on it though. I'd love it if they brought that one ninja girl back in this show too but alas.