Ninja Turtles Origin was kinda like IDW.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

There are a lot of things to like or not like about this origin story. But, there's NO WAY that a mutated rat with human intelligence learning ninjutsu from a book is more stupid than an ordinary rat learning ninjutsu by example.

That's laugh-out-loud stupid, right there.

No one is really denying that but it's excusable in the sense that the people who wrote didn't think their work would be ever put under any serious scrutiny.

The fact that a major motion picture decided to go with something that is at best just as stupid and at worst much more stupid is the real laugh-out-loud thing here. That in a movie which couldn't have the Foot be an organised crime group with ninja traditions because that's unrealistic thought Splinter learning it from a book (how could he read?) was acceptable.

There's any number of ways you could change or tweak the origin to sound more plausible. Some that were rumored may have been more fanboy cool like Splinter having his abilities programmed into him at TCRI would have been better than - he learns it from a book.

I've always thought the answer to this is simple and actually found it interesting that one of Laird's ideas to explain the origin in a more plausible was along the same lines; Splinter as a regular rat did not really learn ninjitsu but later the mutagen awakened the memories of watching Yoshi train for hours.

It's simple, changes nothing and can easily be worked in to usual narration that Splinter gives to describe the origin. It could even be appropriately dramatic given it would also awaken the memory of watching Yoshi's murder. One of the first images in his head when he gains sentience is watching his master die.

But learning from a book? There's little that can be done to redeem that.

[Leo656]

Anyone at all learning ninjutsu from a book is about as stupid as it gets, mutagen or no. It is impossible to learn anything physical by reading about it. And it also kind of undermines Splinter's authority as a leader or "Master". Why would he be the "sensei"? Because he read the book first? Realistically, by "learning" martial arts the same sh*tty way, all five of them would be at the same sh*tty level of skill, since the only ones they'd be able to practice on would be each other. Splinter wouldn't be any better or more experienced than any of them; they'd all suck equally. But they're all three times his size, so they'd be able to throw him around like a fuzzy football if they wanted to. So, again, based on the stupid concept of anyone learning how to perform martial arts by reading a "...For Dummies" book about it, who the hell put the rat in charge?

Y'know, part of me always wanted to try MMA. Think I'll go down to the library, check out a couple books, spend a weekend becoming a "Master", then go kick Brock Lesnar's ass. Should be fine, I'm pretty sure I read faster than he does.

That whole thing f***cking sucks.

[Donaterro]

The changes in the IDW comic are pretty much all for the better. The reincarnation of all the turtles and splinter, who was hamato yoshi, and the long running family feud between them and shredder is only amplified by this change in the story. Plus it explains how ninjitsu is natural for all of them, and amplifies Raph's anger and feeling as an outsider even within his own family.

The movie took all the stupid parts, and just ran with it. There isn't even a real Japanese connection for Splinter, except a book he found, and that influences everyone to adopt so many Japanese traditions? nah...

such a bad movie.

(at least the comics are great)

[THGhost]

How anyone can dislike IDW or the Mirage comics is beyond me.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

^People have their reasons, if not just one for not wanting to give some time to them. Why is that so hard to grasp?

[Leo656]

Mirage to me is just a little boring. It feels like it holds itself back a little bit on purpose, almost out of fear of becoming as "goofy/ridiculous" as the other media. Like they have this entire stable of fantastical characters, and they make it a point to tell the most straightforward, mundane stories half the time. And then sometimes they go too far the other way, until April is a magic pencil sketch and the guys are playing sidekicks to a D-Grade Justice League.

Then there's the inconsistency during the guest creator phase, where the books had no consistent tone; a lot of the individual issues by themselves were just fine, but when you're used to and expecting more serialized, plot-focused content, reading a glut of one-shot, non-canon, pseudo-satirical issues in a row can be a real drag. Nothing against those issues, but every time I read through the series in order, I couldn't wait for the fill-in stuff to be over with so the book could get back to the damn story already. I mean, if all you care about is the "canon", the entire Mirage Vol. 1 could have probably been wrapped up in 25 issues or so, so the series feels kind of meandering and bloated.

Vol. 2 wasn't bad, but even that took a while to get going and then just sort of ended. It felt like a firecracker that only half went off. A little noise, a few sparks, it kind of got the job done but not in a completely satisfying way. It moved the story forward, but wasn't entirely memorable on its own.

And I just hate Vol. 4. I mean, not literally all of it, but overall it's the TMNT book I'm least likely to grab and read. Just way too many "I'm never going to resolve this, I just feel like being self-indulgent" dangling plot threads. And it just drags on forever. Having Splinter die and the guys all go their own way is a really intriguing premise, and they went at it in the single most boring way possible. It felt like it would have worked better as a series of solo-mini-series that eventually tied back to the main book to complete the story; it didn't feel like the main book, itself. It is by far the most flat-out boring version of TMNT I've ever seen, and it's a shame, because the first couple issues felt right, then it just went flat. And they tapped some neat ideas, I just strongly feel those ideas would have been better explored elsewhere.

Conversely, the second volume "Tales of the TMNT" Mirage book is one of the very best versions of TMNT, and it did a much better job at being the kind of TMNT book you should expect. It did a great job of filling in all the holes in Mirage canon and was fairly accessible to old and new Mirage fans. Plus, the art was, on the whole, a lot more eye-pleasing to casual readers. In almost every way, I feel Tales Vol. 2 is what Vol. 4 should have been. It's my favorite part of the entire Mirage series, pretty much. It's got kind of a "Legends of the Dark Knight" vibe to it.

So, there's my two cents on Mirage. I like the very few issues of IDW I've read, but haven't read enough to have an opinion.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Anyone at all learning ninjutsu from a book is about as stupid as it gets, mutagen or no. It is impossible to learn anything physical by reading about it. And it also kind of undermines Splinter's authority as a leader or "Master". Why would he be the "sensei"? Because he read the book first? Realistically, by "learning" martial arts the same sh*tty way, all five of them would be at the same sh*tty level of skill, since the only ones they'd be able to practice on would be each other. Splinter wouldn't be any better or more experienced than any of them; they'd all suck equally. But they're all three times his size, so they'd be able to throw him around like a fuzzy football if they wanted to. So, again, based on the stupid concept of anyone learning how to perform martial arts by reading a "...For Dummies" book about it, who the hell put the rat in charge?

Y'know, part of me always wanted to try MMA. Think I'll go down to the library, check out a couple books, spend a weekend becoming a "Master", then go kick Brock Lesnar's ass. Should be fine, I'm pretty sure I read faster than he does.

That whole thing f***cking sucks.

MMA?

Dude, I'm reading this book on how to be a millionaire ( it's from the 70's...you know, when billionaires hadn't been invented)
It says if I just follow these five easy steps, and buy a whole bunch of cleaning supplies, then sell it to my friends, and they also sell it to their friends, and so on, I can be a millionaire by next Friday.

Point is, I need you to buy some laundry soap.

...please...

Pretty please.

[jestermon]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Anyone at all learning ninjutsu from a book is about as stupid as it gets, mutagen or no. It is impossible to learn anything physical by reading about it. And it also kind of undermines Splinter's authority as a leader or "Master". Why would he be the "sensei"? Because he read the book first? Realistically, by "learning" martial arts the same sh*tty way, all five of them would be at the same sh*tty level of skill, since the only ones they'd be able to practice on would be each other. Splinter wouldn't be any better or more experienced than any of them; they'd all suck equally. But they're all three times his size, so they'd be able to throw him around like a fuzzy football if they wanted to. So, again, based on the stupid concept of anyone learning how to perform martial arts by reading a "...For Dummies" book about it, who the hell put the rat in charge?

Y'know, part of me always wanted to try MMA. Think I'll go down to the library, check out a couple books, spend a weekend becoming a "Master", then go kick Brock Lesnar's ass. Should be fine, I'm pretty sure I read faster than he does.

That whole thing f***cking sucks.

I guess you have read a how to book then obviously.

It's also great how everyone agrees the version they like is stupid but it's not as stupid as the stupid one you like pure genius.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

And I still think that Splinter isn't telling the whole story. I think the Yoshi Saki backstory will be in movie two.

Look guys, When have they EVER in ANY version, told the whole orgin in one Episode/Comic/Movie? Mirage told the yoshi backstory/mutation part in the first issue, but where the ooze came from was revealed later. The original movies and 4kids cartoons did the same thing, the ooze's origins coming only later. Here, the source of the mutationa and the ooze was told in a self-contained way that you can just watch this movie and get a COMPLETE story. Other details, like Yoshi, can come later. Like the director said, they didnt want to cram all the details into one movie.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

^People have their reasons, if not just one for not wanting to give some time to them. Why is that so hard to grasp?

But without stating that reason? That's just not rational, under any circumstance.

[Donaterro]

Originally Posted by THGhost

But without stating that reason? That's just not rational, under any circumstance.

All ideas should be open to debate/criticism, if you can't defend your own opinions then ...

[Donaterro]

Originally Posted by Leo656

So, there's my two cents on Mirage. I like the very few issues of IDW I've read, but haven't read enough to have an opinion.

I started to like the original Mirage run the more I read it, I didn't like the issues that I already knew from the 2k3 series episodes ie. Jack Kirby's issue, and the time scepter teenage girl. But when it gets to RETURN TO NEW YORK, stuff gets real.

Read all the IDW comics, I suggest grabbing the 4 issue books on amazon. I'm surprised at how good it is, taking certain elements (usually the best) from all the versions of TMNT really.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by Donaterro

All ideas should be open to debate/criticism, if you can't defend your own opinions then ...

Precisely.