Have you ever disliked any of the turtles for a brief or prolonged period of time?

[Davetello]

I took a dislike to Leonardo during the 2007 film, partly because I felt that he was acting like an utter c0ck during the fight with Raphael (both before and after Raph was outed). Raph isn't even my favourite turtle, but at that time I could really relate to being highly strung and feeling unappreciated, and yet STILL having your buttons pushed by the insensitive muppet whose shadow you're living in. It's quite strange that my dislike of Leonardo lingered, as the ending to the scene and the reunion in Winters Tower were emotional and genuinely redeemed Leo, making him a stronger and more sympathetic character. In truth I'd been harbouring some dislike for Leo for quite a while. There was something about his goody two shoes persona which had started to grate on me. Of course I knew this was irrational - Leo has to shoulder a lot of responsibility and it's a major burden to bear, the cracks would show in any normal person/animal. But I'd just taken a dislike to him, going so far as to call him a 'pr!ck' on a youtube video comment.

I'm sort of like that in general - I can take a temporary dislike to someone for irrational reasons. After a few weeks I settled down and realised that I was being unfair to Leonardo. Similar storylines happen between Leo and Raph in Mirage, 4kids and the original film, and both siblings come out of it looking stronger both individually and in terms of their relationship. But it was still surprising that one of the turtles would fall victim to one of my brief moments of irrationality as I had always felt they were immune. I was ashamed of myself, to be honest.

After this incident had blown over it raised another question, that being if I was actually a genuine fan? After all, how could a proper fan take a dislike to one of the boys? I considered this and came to the conclusion that it's not mandatory to like all of them to be deemed a true fan (even though I personally do, this brief period aside). After all, we all like sports teams or bands where we don't appreciate or like every member. It's not necessarily a bad thing as the whole is what is imperative. The turtles individually and collectively are the most important piece of that whole, but they don't constitute the entire package.

I've gone off on a tangent somewhat, but to get back to the original question, have you ever disliked one of the boys? Or do you dislike one or more on a permanent basis? And - relating to the other comments I have put forth - do you believe that caring for all four of them is something which should be a prerequisite as a turtles fan, given how critical the theme of 'family' is to their story? I have outlined why I don't feel that is the case, but some of you may feel differently.

[CyberCubed]

Not really. I did start to find 2k3 Mikey annoying in the later seasons of the 4kids series but I kinda got over it.

It's kinda difficult to dislike the Turtles too much, it's usually just for one episode because a bad writer has no idea how to write their personalities without using stereotypes.

[ssjup81]

I can honestly say no to this. I've liked them in all the mediums I've been exposed to. Usually said portrayal worked for said medium, so I view it as I would any type of story I may read. All characters are important or serve some purpose be it small or big. I may dislike a certain aspect of some characters, but not the character itself.

I hope that made sense.

[Cryomancer]

I have at times disliked OT Mike a lot and most Raphaels too. Raphael usually just because he's wasting run time on yet another "boy I sure am angry / think i would be a better leader just because, then learn my lesson" episode and then goes on to do more of them in the same show.

They also both tend to have less reach in the video games!

Nick Donatello's crush gets really old too and makes him act like an idiot / entitled jerk a lot.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Not really. I did start to find 2k3 Mikey annoying in the later seasons of the 4kids series but I kinda got over it.

It's kinda difficult to dislike the Turtles too much, it's usually just for one episode because a bad writer has no idea how to write their personalities without using stereotypes.

I am on record as finding Mikey annoying after he won the Battle Nexus. But that was a different feeling to what I went through with Leonardo. With Mikey I was just p!ssed at his behaviour and was tired of him being a brat - but I never actually disliked him in general, or any other incarnations of his character. Leo was different - I genuinely started to feel angry (as angry as we can be about fictional characters, so don't mock me please) at his behaviour and his arrogance, to the point that as I watched the fight I wanted Raph to kick the absolute fvck out of him and leave him bleeding on the floor.

Yes, bad writers can be a problem. But we can't really blame how they are being portrayed - if we use that logic then none of the boys are responsible for anything as they're not real, and it's a professional writer who's controlling their behaviour.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Cryomancer

I have at times disliked OT Mike a lot and most Raphaels too. Raphael usually just because he's wasting run time on yet another "boy I sure am angry / think i would be a better leader just because, then learn my lesson" episode and then goes on to do more of them in the same show.

Wow, you disliked OT Mikey?

They also both tend to have less reach in the video games!

But to balance that out, wasn't Mikey the fastest and Raph the strongest?

Nick Donatello's crush gets really old too and makes him act like an idiot / entitled jerk a lot.

I find it interesting how people interpret things differently. Yeah, he acts like an idiot (like most young inexperienced people with a crush), but I missed the "entitled jerk" part.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

I can honestly say no to this. I've liked them in all the mediums I've been exposed to. Usually said portrayal worked for said medium, so I view it as I would any type of story I may read. All characters are important or serve some purpose be it small or big. I may dislike a certain aspect of some characters, but not the character itself.

I hope that made sense.

Yeah, that makes sense You dislike aspects or facets of a person but it doesn't extend to their entire personality. You allude to what I did - that all characters are a piece in the whole story, and while the turtles are the biggest piece, they're not all of it.

Originally Posted by Cryomancer

I have at times disliked OT Mike a lot and most Raphaels too. Raphael usually just because he's wasting run time on yet another "boy I sure am angry / think i would be a better leader just because, then learn my lesson" episode and then goes on to do more of them in the same show.

They also both tend to have less reach in the video games!

Nick Donatello's crush gets really old too and makes him act like an idiot / entitled jerk a lot.

Good answer. The character of Raphael is a typical one in fiction (the angry aggressive anti-hero) but he's never really annoyed me. In fact as I've grown older he's the one who's jumped the highest in my 'ranking', as I can relate to his attitude. He's now my second favourite turtle, I would say. Back in the day he'd probably have been fourth.

Lol good point about the games. In Turtles in Time Raph loses health very quickly too - all he has going for him is speed. In the NES game he and Mikey are borderline pointless.

Donatello is obviously my top man, but Donnie/April thing is doing my head in and sort of putting me off the show. Yes, he's a teenager and it's natural that he'd develop romantic feelings for a female, even a human female. But it's way overplayed imo.

[IndigoErth]

I kind of agree with the 2007 movie in how they made Leo look - which is what came to mind when I saw your thread title - but with him being my #1 fave I put my dislike for it the writers and his portrayal.

I could see angry siblings potentially purposely saying such cutting remarks because they know it would get under the other's skin... after all, I don't recall him speaking that way to anyone else or at any other moment. But I don't care for it though, Leo is normally not the jackass type like that, at least not in media I'm familiar with. The 2007 movie is prob my lowest rated out of them all because of that...

Can't say I've ever outright disliked any of the four. They're all pretty cool for the most part, though Leo of course is the star of the show in my eyes. I'm fairly neutral on Donnie and Mikey, like them just fine. As for Raph, I tend to share perspectives that are more similar to Leo when there is a conflict and he (Raph) occasionally rubs me the wrong way a little, but I don't dislike Raph. I appreciate that he and Leo would not be who they are without each other. And though Raph is pretty well counter to my own personalty, I do understand the part where he just has to go be alone for a while when he's really angry/upset.

That all said... Nah, I don't think anyone has any responsibly to have to like them all. Leo may be my adored one out of the four, but I know his brothers all have their own fans who love them just as much so it evens out.

[Cryomancer]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Wow, you disliked OT Mikey?

Yeah, he acts like an idiot (like most young inexperienced people with a crush), but I missed the "entitled jerk" part.

Maybe not OT mike himself as much the effect he has on the franchise as a whole? Seems like the main source of most of the OT worship I guess, the pizza, so on. The stuff that prevents Mirage adaptions or whatever. That and sometimes he's just a dumbass who prioritizes pizza over everything else.

The entitlement part with Don just is how it kind of feels like he's falling into stupid "nice guy" territory where he thinks April has to be "for him" because he likes her. Doesn't help that it's literally the first woman he's been around that he's doing it to. I'm not a SJW type but I'm just hoping the writers are setting him up for learning that maybe he's doing it incredibly wrong and should just accept their existing friendship and move on. Gravity Falls just did this in one of the new episodes, thankfully burying that boring subplot forever (I hope).

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Yeah, that makes sense You dislike aspects or facets of a person but it doesn't extend to their entire personality. You allude to what I did - that all characters are a piece in the whole story, and while the turtles are the biggest piece, they're not all of it.

Yeah, pretty much. Let's take Donnie for the current series. When watching through season 1, I found Donnie's crush a bit bothersome since he would lose his focus easily, but I still really like the character for the other aspects. I find his emotional outbursts funny, for instance. Season 2, I like him even more. It also helps that they toned down his crush so much. I know there's more to Donnie than just his crush on April. He's the techy one. He's the compassionate one. He's the smart one, etc.

In the past, I could never get very attached to Leo because he was the goody-goody. The teacher's pet type, but I LOVE his portrayal in the Nick series, flaws and all. His flaws can be bothersome, but I know there's more to him than that.

I'm a bit indifferent to Splinter in this incarnation and sometimes do feel he's a bit harsh in his ways and how, sometimes, it comes across as taking out his frustrations on the turtles (but I doubt it), but he's still important.

The same goes for the other characters. Unless the character was purposely written to be pointless, I view all characters as important.

Even Timothy I think was "important" and served a purpose. He showed us that you can't get results overnight and that you actually have to work hard to get the results you want when it comes to most anything in life.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I kind of agree with the 2007 movie in how they made Leo look - which is what came to mind when I saw your thread title - but with him being my #1 fave I put my dislike for it the writers and his portrayal.

I could see angry siblings potentially purposely saying such cutting remarks because they know it would get under the other's skin... after all, I don't recall him speaking that way to anyone else or at any other moment. But I don't care for it though, Leo is normally not the jackass type like that, at least not in media I'm familiar with. The 2007 movie is prob my lowest rated out of them all because of that...

Can't say I've ever outright disliked any of the four. They're all pretty cool for the most part, though Leo of course is the star of the show in my eyes. I'm fairly neutral on Donnie and Mikey, like them just fine. As for Raph, I tend to share perspectives that are more similar to Leo when there is a conflict and he (Raph) occasionally rubs me the wrong way a little, but I don't dislike Raph. I appreciate that he and Leo would not be who they are without each other. And though Raph is pretty well counter to my own personalty, I do understand the part where he just has to go be alone for a while when he's really angry/upset.

That all said... Nah, I don't think anyone has any responsibly to have to like them all. Leo may be my adored one out of the four, but I know his brothers all have their own fans who love them just as much so it evens out.

Great post, and you've nailed it with the bold part.

When I think back though it shows the power of the scene, and how it did so much right. If Leo's behaviour elicited such feelings in me, the viewer (to the point I wanted Raph to seriously hurt Leo), imagine what it did to Raph himself? Well, we see that when he almost kills Leo - literally. Such a brilliant scene.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Yeah, pretty much. Let's take Donnie for the current series. When watching through season 1, I found Donnie's crush a bit bothersome since he would lose his focus easily, but I still really like the character for the other aspects. I find his emotional outbursts funny, for instance. Season 2, I like him even more. It also helps that they toned down his crush so much. I know there's more to Donnie than just his crush on April. He's the techy one. He's the compassionate one. He's the smart one, etc.

In the past, I could never get very attached to Leo because he was the goody-goody. The teacher's pet type, but I LOVE his portrayal in the Nick series, flaws and all. His flaws can be bothersome, but I know there's more to him than that.

I'm a bit indifferent to Splinter in this incarnation and sometimes do feel he's a bit harsh in his ways and how, sometimes, it comes across as taking out his frustrations on the turtles (but I doubt it), but he's still important.

The same goes for the other characters. Unless the character was purposely written to be pointless, I view all characters as important.

Even Timothy I think was "important" and served a purpose. He showed us that you can't get results overnight and that you actually have to work hard to get the results you want when it comes to most anything in life.

Nice post. And I'd even argue that poorer characters in fiction serve a purpose, even though they're much lambasted. They can often make strong characters look even better by comparison, and as we imply, they are often integral to the overall story even if their piece of it is poorly executed.

Although some people might disagree with that. There is that saying - "you're only as strong as your weakest link".

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Cryomancer

Maybe not OT mike himself as much the effect he has on the franchise as a whole? Seems like the main source of most of the OT worship I guess, the pizza, so on. The stuff that prevents Mirage adaptions or whatever. That and sometimes he's just a dumbass who prioritizes pizza over everything else.

Well, yeah, can't deny that one. When I started watching the Nick version, I posted on my thoughts after getting through the first season. I hated the fact that he was being portrayed as so dumb, but seems they're easing up on that as the series goes on. Season 2, he's much more tolerable. Seems he is the glutton, though.

The entitlement part with Don just is how it kind of feels like he's falling into stupid "nice guy" territory where he thinks April has to be "for him" because he likes her. Doesn't help that it's literally the first woman he's been around that he's doing it to. I'm not a SJW type but I'm just hoping the writers are setting him up for learning that maybe he's doing it incredibly wrong and should just accept their existing friendship and move on. Gravity Falls just did this in one of the new episodes, thankfully burying that boring subplot forever (I hope).

This goes back to the "interpretation" thing I mentioned earlier. For me, it comes across that Donnie values April's friendship more than his crush on her, as I got that impression from the Fungus Humungus episode. The things said first was regarding the friendship. I interpreted it as meaning that Donnie's worst fear was losing April's friendship again and that all the romance stuff was secondary and played for laughs. OH, one other thing. I also felt that the episode showed that compared to his brothers, Donnie has a complex over being a mutant.

As for the subplot as a whole, for me, it's not bothering me since it's been toned down so much. For me, if it was like how it was in season 1, then I think this aspect would bother me. It still comes across as very innocent to me.

As for Gravity Falls...I have no idea what that is, so sorry I can't get the parallel. ^^

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Cryomancer

Maybe not OT mike himself as much the effect he has on the franchise as a whole? Seems like the main source of most of the OT worship I guess, the pizza, so on. The stuff that prevents Mirage adaptions or whatever. That and sometimes he's just a dumbass who prioritizes pizza over everything else.

That's a really good point. Mikey's personality (mainly post Mirage where it's been wildly exaggerated) is a noose around the neck of this franchise. Despite Turtles Forever portraying the four OT turtles as goofy, Leo and Donnie were never like that in the show. Raph was sarcastic, but not particularly fun-loving. I get the feeling that the OT turtles were homogenised in Turtles Forever simply to serve as a stark contrast to the 4kids turtles.

But going back to Mikey - there is no doubt that (generally speaking) amongst casual fans and young fans of this franchise, the turtles are about pizza, catchphrases, being fun-loving and wacky. They've all been portrayed in this light in some way, but Mikey embodies all of it as he is portrayed this way far more than the others. Mikey is by far the most popular turtle amongst casual fans, and sometimes he's the only turtle whose name some of them can remember. It might seem controversial, but you could argue that Michelangelo is the reason this franchise will forever be known as 'kiddy' in the mainstream.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Leonardo in the 2007 film, because he was a two faced hypocrite Prick who was doing the same thing in the jungle that Raph did in the city...

Only to come back, get a medal from Splinter, get his butt kissed by the rest of his family, and no one calls Leo on his BS Except Raph (It's like "Oh hey, thanks for not writing for a few years and making us think that maybe you were dead/hurt/whatever. Oh, and you get a medal too? And it's no worries! And it's ok that you 'fight crime' as long as it's in a jungle? And praises from Splinter? But me doing it in the city...with a disguise that even you, Mikey, or Donny didn't recognize me in...? That's just Wrong.")

I hated Leo in that flick.

[Victorsaurus]

Yes...for now.
I dislike the appearance of the four turtles from the 2014 movie.
They look really ugly and big to me plus I don't like the extra stuff they have on.

I still have not seen the movie (I'm still looking foward to watching it), but hope to see it when it comes out on DVD or just wait for part two and see them around the same time.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

Leonardo in the 2007 film, because he was a two faced hypocrite Prick who was doing the same thing in the jungle that Raph did in the city...

Only to come back, get a medal from Splinter, get his butt kissed by the rest of his family, and no one calls Leo on his BS Except Raph (It's like "Oh hey, thanks for not writing for a few years and making us think that maybe you were dead/hurt/whatever. Oh, and you get a medal too? And it's no worries! And it's ok that you 'fight crime' as long as it's in a jungle? But me doing it in the city (with a disguise that even you, Mikey, or Donny didn't recognize me in)? That's just Wrong.")

I hated Leo in that flick.

Another great point.

As for the Nightwatcher thing - who did Leo think he was? Did he think he was the law in New York City? Fair enough if he didn't agree with vigilante actions (lol, hypocrisy as you state), but did he really think he could talk Nightwatcher out of his actions? That summed up his delusions of grandeur for me - he thought he could lecture anyone and they'd go along with his views (probably because of years of Mikey and Donnie being submissive and in awe of him).

Then when the armour came off and he found out Nightwatcher was Raphael, what did he do? Raph was clearly distraught and venting his frustrations, yet all Leo could do was judge - calling Raph impulsive etc, and then the kicker - slowly turning to face Raph, looking him straight in the eye and telling him "I'm better than you" in that cold, calculating, superior tone. He knew how that would affect a clearly struggling Raphael yet he did it anyway.

Like you I was on Raphael's side to a ridiculous degree. I've never felt favouritism like it when two of the turtles have had an argument. I really felt for him and related to him, and he needed that victory over Leo (I consider it a victory, even if some don't because they feel Leo was holding back). Not that it felt like a victory for him at the time, of course.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Victorsaurus

Yes...for now.
I dislike the appearance of the four turtles from the 2014 movie.
They look really ugly and big to me plus I don't like the extra stuff they have on.

I still have not seen the movie (I'm still looking foward to watching it), but hope to see it when it comes out on DVD or just wait for part two and see them around the same time.

Fair enough mate - I'm really talking about their personalities or actions though. I know what you mean about not liking their appearance in the film but that's not what I am getting at. I fully agree though - I hate their look in the film too.

The film isn't very good, imo. However, you should certainly watch it as it's important to experience as many turtles iterations as we can eventually.

[Prowler]

When I was a kid, there was a period where I disliked Leonardo. I just thought he didn't fit in the FW series and found his personality boring and his bossy attitude annoying. All the other turtles had something going for them that I liked, but Leonardo was just the "leader", the bossy turtle that licked Splinter's boots.Then came the 2k3 series and I stopped disliking him. Even though he was still a bit annoying with his idealism and the "I know best" attitude, at least he had the skills to back it up. It wasn't really a big deal him being the most skilled turtle of the bunch, after all he was the leader, so it made sense. I could have used less Leonardo centric episodes, though.

I like the four turtles these days, even though I dislike certain incarnations of them, mainly FW's Leonardo and 2k3's Michelangelo, but as a whole I like the whole bunch. That being said, I've always liked Donatello and Raphael more than I like Michelangelo and Leonardo.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Prowler

When I was a kid, there was a period where I disliked Leonardo. I just thought he didn't fit in the FW series and found his personality boring and his bossy attitude annoying. All the other turtles had something going for them that I liked, but Leonardo was just the "leader", the bossy turtle that licked Splinter's boots.Then came the 2k3 series and I stopped disliking him. Even though he was still a bit annoying with his idealism and the "I know best" attitude, at least he had the skills to back it up. It wasn't really a big deal him being the most skilled turtle of the bunch, after all he was the leader, so it made sense. I could have used less Leonardo centric episodes, though.

I like the four turtles these days, even though I dislike certain incarnations of them, mainly FW's Leonardo and 2k3's Michelangelo, but as a whole I like the whole bunch. That being said, I've always liked Donatello and Raphael more than I like Michelangelo and Leonardo.

I know what you mean about OT Leonardo. He doesn't really have a personality; he's just a blank canvas. To be fair he's better in season 1, but after that he just has one mode of action and that's to be serious and straight-forward all the time. This is so much the case that it actually serves as a theme where episodes make a point of this homogeneous personality type e.g. "Leonardo Lightens Up". The guy had to be shot by one of Donatello's inventions to actually develop some sort of personality. All in all he's just sort of 'there'. Nothing wrong with that as I still love him in the show and he's an integral part of that, and he keeps the guys on track in terms of focus. But generally speaking he's just bland and has one way of acting.

On the other hand 4kids Leo is a very layered character. His Splinter sycophancy and devotion to his craft is something which actually develops him as a character - aided of course by Raphael being the proper Raphael (something OT didn't have). This is what is meant above by the claim that the two of them make each other who they are (apologies for not referencing the poster by name as I have forgotten who said it and am currently typing this so not gonna leave the reply box to look). And then of course there's the development he undergoes in season 4 where he finally cracks after the events of "Exodus". That really showed what can happen when someone stable snaps and is a lesson that even the most level-headed and mentally focused people have their breaking point - sort of like when you hear "he always seemed so normal, I can't believe he did that". Mirage Leo is brilliant as well. And I love Leo in the original film - even though he has similar issues with Raph, the argument in April's is more of a heat of the moment thing and you can actually understand it because Raph does go OTT with his impulsive desire to look for Splinter.That's more of an escalating argument, as opposed to the astonishing arrogance and ego displayed by Leo when the pair of them fight in "TMNT". And the way that Raph and Leo sort of have a personality swap on the roof when Shredder is taunting them about Splinter is pretty nice.

Edit: I suppose you could say the "we don't need ya" line is out of order in the original film. But it's still heat of the moment, whereas you know "TMNT" Leo believes everything he's saying and has clearly pondered things privately.