Does anyone see any of the Turtle's having a Heroic BSoD moment?

[victory_angel]

Invasion is one of the most emotional moments we've had for the turtles in general. So do you think we will see the Turtles have moments where they undergo a full on Heroic BSoD (Blue Screens of Death)? And if they do, how do you see them play out for each Turtle?


For people unfamiliar with the term there is a a computer error in windows run PC's known as Blue Screen of Death. When this error occurs the entire screen turns blue and there is a bunch of white text that essentially says the computer program has hit a critical error and needs to reboot itself to correct it.

However there is also a trope called Heroic Blue Screen of Death. This is where a character witnesses or experiences an earth shattering revelation or event that shakes them to their very core. And this results in the character being flummoxed or shaken to the point of mentally shutting down for a time period.

The reasons for the BSoD varies, it could be as simple as a character learning something about themselves or someone they care about that they never saw coming that really throws them for a loop. Others triggers can be being the cause or unable to prevent the death of a loved one. Or being force to make an impossible choice. And reactions also vary depending on the situation and person suffering from BSOD but common reactions are violent emotional outbursts, angsty moods, emotionally catatonic states, and or short lived retirements.

We have seen Turtles undergo BSoD or potential BSoD moments before. Raph was close to going into one during "Invasion" after Shredder has supposedly killed Splinter. And probably would have had Mikey not stepped in and calmed him down.

A number of BSoD moments for the Turtles occur in the 2k3 series. Most notably Leo after his defeat at the hands of the Shredder in the first season, resulting in him being melancholy. And the fourth season after his entire family nearly sacrificed themselves defeating the Shredder. With the fact that even had to be an option for them bothering him to the point he spends a good point of the season being emo and militant.

Donnie's reaction to the deaths of his bros in SaiNW may have been shock that would potentially become BSoD.

In the nick show

Raph is more likely to have the violent outburst as a BSoD. Triggers being seeing his loved one seriously injured or unable to prevent tragedy within his family to the point he of wanting blood. Or possibly going into an emotional state after seriously hurting someone he cares about in his anger.

Leo may be emo, self-defeating, and sorrowful. Triggers being family and/or loved ones captured or killed by Foot Clan or Kraang. Or seriously injured because of a critical error in judgement.

Mikey maybe uncharacteristically sullen and depressed. Witnessed loss of or harm done to any of his family members.

Donnie BSoD moments tends to vary depending on the trigger. Normally when he's upset about something he either withdraws from everyone preferring to mope by himself, or he beats himself up about the situation.
and depending on the trigger reactions could result in a tearful out burst, emotionally spurred catatonia, shutting himself away from family, obsessively working on projects without eating or sleeping (in the case of Same as it never was done to prevent certain things from happening at all), blaming himself for situation and/or temporary retirement.

[FoxBoxKid]

A fellow troper, eh?

[Coola Yagami]

Raph had one when mikey was taken down by Snakeweed and don kept asking him what to do. Luckily the commercial break fixed it.

[BubblyShell22]

I definitely could see Leo having one if he has to face Shredder again possibly flashing back to the attack. That happened in one of the "Return to New York" episodes when one of the Foot Elite Guards attacked him and he briefly flashed back to how he was taken down by them, but then he stopped the attack and said that he wasn't going to live in fear. But honestly, I could see any of them having this reaction at one point in the series for sure.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by FoxBoxKid

A fellow troper, eh?

Good topic though. Will be interesting to see the replies.

[Warrior]

Do people seriously try to analyze fiction with TVtropes entries?

[Drose18]

The writers just go to the april don casey crap when they cant think of anything. Their other bailout is mutating something or someone. Theres already too many mutants around. The kraang are confusing because some episodes they seemed like a joke and others they were taken seriously.

[BubblyShell22]

But there will be character development later on. Just give it time, Joshdonnie. I'm sure this could still happen.

[victory_angel]

A good trigger for BSoD with Donnie would be if he is forced to kill Timothy.
And so for things are leaning in that direction.

In the Pulverizer Donnie is warned that by choosing to train the Timothy at all he is responsible for him and all that will happen.

In Pulverizer Returns, none of the Turtles seem to know the Pulverizer had been Donnie's student. I mean yeah we do have that moment where the Timothy asks Donnie if they could train together again sometime and Donnie says 'No' in the Pulverizer. But in Pulverizer Returns they don't seem to acknowledge or question why Donnie is so adamant about getting him out of the Foot Clan. And instead just brush off their brothers insistence as unimportant particularly when there is someone who can pass them valuable information on Foot Clan activity.

Even the way Leo sighs in irritation after Donnie takes off in he Stealthbike, it's like he's asking "Donnie, what is wrong with you?"

In Mutagen Man Unleashed be have Mutagen Man betraying Donatello by eating the mutagen when Donnie's back is turned in order to gain arms and legs. We don't know how long he has been doing this? But we can assume that it started when the Turtles started locating the mutagen canisters and bringing them to the lair. And Donnie of course has been talking to the Pulverizer about April since she left.

And then later when Donnie tampers with that canister of mutagen which puts Timothy on ice (quite literally). He does tell Timmy not to drink it as a warning that the mutagen was tampered with. And it's clear that hurting Timothy in that matter, hurt Donnie emotionally as well. But the only choices he had was it was either do that or let Timothy hurt April.

I don't know about any one else, but after Pulverizer Returns I got a feeling that something in Donnie had shifted, and after Mutagen Man Unleashed it felt like whatever shifted had definitely cracked.

We also know and have pointed out that Donnie has made retromutagen successfully. But it was said he was only going to use it to cure Kirby and Splinter. And people complained that Donnie wasn't even thinking about Timothy who he had also promised to cure.

The way I see it is Kirby was more urgent then Timothy because he felt he owed that to April. Kirby was involved because of them and mutated because of them so he owed it to April to make things right.

With Splinter, I see that more as a desire to return something Splinter had lost. Donnie and the other Turtles have more then likely heard Splinter morn his lost humanity more then the few times we have. So by creating the retromutagen he feels he has a way to restore what Splinter had lost.


Of the Turtles, Donnie has been depicted as a pacifist, in previous incarnations that aspect was never explored. And there are certainly some kills where Donnie hasn't batted an eye such as Killing the Shredder in issue one of the Mirage comic or later killing Stockman. But there are other kills that Donnie has made that do affect him, such the leader of that Militia group the Turtles encounter in Northampton. The ones that wanted to detonate a nuke in the middle of a near by town to set a statement. Donnie is not able to dismantle the bomb but he does remove the plutonium core. So when the Militia leader detonates it, it goes off like a regular explosive. But Donnie doesn't take it as a victory because even though the individual who died was flawed, he was still an individual who only wanted to bring change.

So far the Turtles haven't had any serious killings. I mean, yeah we have seen them kill before. But most of the time, they tend to knock enemies out or leave survival ambiguous. With Raph, Leo, and Mikey if they are ever forced to kills an enemy they know, they would be seriously affected by it. And would likely try to convince themselves that that they were doing what they had to do.

Donnie on the other hand if he was forced to kill would be affected by it, but depending on who would cause the reaction. Fish Face or Dogpound, might get Donnie withdrawing for a bit but i doubt he'd be overly broken up about it.

Timothy on the other hand might get a reaction since his demise didn't have to happen. Which at best there will be a moment where Donnie just withdraws and maybe goes into a "If only..." trip. (Which might be a good way to get the Turtles to know about out Donnie's connection to Timothy.

Donnie: If only I hadn't offered to teach him...

Leo: He was your student?! Why didn't you tell me?!)

At worst Donnie might brake down in tears and then later telling everyone he's quitting as a ninja.

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, VA, and that would be pretty dark if Tim had to die like that, but I doubt it would be Don who would make the killing blow. I could see Don beating himself up if Tim died and there was a way Don could have stopped it but didn't get to do so.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, VA, and that would be pretty dark if Tim had to die like that, but I doubt it would be Don who would make the killing blow. I could see Don beating himself up if Tim died and there was a way Don could have stopped it but didn't get to do so.

Donnie is responsible for him though...so he is the one who rightfully should put Timmy down if that is where things are going.

Just like Raph is responsible for Slash because he was formerly his pet. And if Slash had remained a bad guy, Raph would feel it was his job to end Spike's existence should things come to that.


Another thing that could be a trigger is having one of the Turtles learn they weren't related to their brothers.

Now of course you are probably thinking that won't happen, or that won't be a big deal.

In most incarnations the Turtles are brothers either genetically, or the issue is never brought up. There are only two incarnations where they are not related, the first being the OT. In that incarnation the Turtles are more or less living in a frat house in the sewers rather then living as a family.

The second one being Next Mutation, where it's actually stated that even though they call themselves brothers and think of themselves as a family. They are not actually biologically related. Which was more or less a convenient excuse for them to try and include Venus as a love interest despite her technically being their sister.

But we've never actually had three of the turtles be blood relatives and one being a brother because he's a turtle not because he's genetically related. For that Turtle it would like as though everything he has known about his family was a lie.

And the only person who would be twisted enough to point something like that out would be Bishop.

[ssjup81]

If Donnie was put into the situation where he had to kill Timothy as he's his responsibility would be really sad, like at the end of Old Yeller. That still haunts me even now as an adult.

[BubblyShell22]

I highly doubt it would be that bad if they found out they weren't biologically related. Yeah, it might hurt a bit, but then they'd see that they're still brothers despite that and with their bonds, I doubt they'd take it too hard. After all, Splinter adopted them anyway, so he's not technically not their real father, and the Turtles don't seem to care. They still call him "Father" because he adopted them.

[Luckyday]

I always wonder if Splinter had touch any of them and maybe that would be something that drives a wedge.

Like Raph was the only that had any hand contact with Yoshi and thus making Raph the only turtle that is a tiny bit closer to being his biological son. Would Leo be envious of that?

[BubblyShell22]

I think he did touch all of them, so I don't think that's an issue. But I do see Raph getting jealous of Leo for his closeness to Splinter.

[victory_angel]

JTH brought up an interesting concept in one of her fics about Donnie having trouble recovering from the invasion or not recovering at all. This version of Donnie is good at bottling things up and letting them fester in private. Sometimes using a his lab as a place to vent either creatively (I.E. medicating stress through building something.) or verbally (I.E. Complaining to metalhead or the pulverizer)

However the current pattern Donnie is on can lead to a massive train wreck if it isn't addressed sometime soon. And sadly Leo in this incarnation is more likely then Raph or Mikey to notice minute changes in his brothers...but he's not likely to address them before they become more of a problem and at that point it could be too late.


For example take a look at his behavior at the beginning of season 2

1. At the end of Mutation Situation he is very upset about all that has happened.
   
2. Then in follow the leader Raph gives what he feels is comforting advice, which is "Don't worry so much, April will come back eventually" Donnie lamely answers with "Maybe, you're right."
   
3. Squirrelnoid-episode Donnie appears to be completely normal.
   
4. Mutagen Man Unleashed- Donnie slips away from group because he knows April hangs out in the nearby park and discovers her with Casey.
   After Pulverizer breaks free to look for April, Donnie admits he knows she's hanging out with another boy because he had been following her.
   After he defeats Pulverizer he is beating himself up because he essentially created a monster that could have killed the girl he loved.
   
5. Shellacne- Donnie is more or less back to normal.
   
6. Target: April O'Neil- Donnie is caught by April when he is shadowing her.
   Abandons his brother to save April after she informs him she's in danger
   Sees her with Casey on the ice and assumes he's lost her for good
   April reconciles with Donnie and the Turtles.
   
7. Slash and Destroy: Normal
   
8. Kraang Conspiracy: Distracted at some point in the battles when April is abducted by the Kraang.
   Raph goes off to rescue April to prevent Donnie from being distracted from task at hand.
   
9. Good, Bad, Casey Jones: Relatively normal
   
10. Fungus Humongous
    Donnie fears April hating him and that he would lose her to Casey.

However the invasion feels like Donnie is starting to become overwhelmed.

Invasion part 1: Donnie and Leo get into Argument. **
Lair and Shellraiser destroyed **
When Leo separates from his brothers and April, Donnie starts saying it's all his fault and that he should have agreed with Leo about creating a second base.**

Invasion part 2: Horrified as Leo's battered carcass is thrown through the window. **
Can only helplessly watch as Kirby is mutated again. **
Find Splinter only to watch helplessly as he is supposedly killed before their eyes. **
Uses Turtle mech, but even the most powerful weapon on it can't defeat Kraang Prime.
Donnie continues to heap blame and guilt upon himself for the invasion and Leo's condition. **

Within the Woods:
Absently says keeping Leo hydrated will help him heal faster.
Has a heart broken expression on his face when he informs Casey that Leo's voice is different due to throat damage.
Possibly yelled at by Raph about the Mutagen medicine making Leo sick. *
Cries out Raph's name almost in anguish as he watches Raph get turned into a plant.
Worriedly recognizes Leo's voice calling out in the distance

Foot too Big:
Gift he made for April rejected
Told by Raph that what Big Foot is doing to him is exactly what he is doing for April**
Confused by motive behind April's kiss.

Buried Secrets:
Attacked and absorbed by mom thing *

The Croaking:
Normal

Dream Beavers:
Hunted down like an animal in his nightmare world, and no matter where he tried to hide Doom Beaver would always be there. **
he (his brothers as well, but he was practically on the edge) has a near death experience. **

Speed Demon:
Eaten alive and possessed by Speed Demon **

Eyes of the Chimera
Relatively normal if you don't count being kidnapped by a mutant bird, being put in a nest filled with the bones of unfortunate humans, nearly boiled alive by an active geyser, and crushed in an avalanche.

I am aware a number of these moments are more or less for the norm when it comes to turtles, but even seemingly benign events would have their emotional consequences. So the moments that are more likely to have a traumatic emotional impact have two asterisks next to them.
one asterisk is more likely to have only possible mental or emotional impact.

[Tarris Vaal]

All good ideas there JTH and VA

For my own opinion - the problem is that its a Nicktoon, and whilst there might be a rare death its unlikely to be permanent or go especially dark (sadly ). With that in mind...

Donnie - The single most likely thing to send in into a depression is April. Not if she chooses Casey (that would just hurt). If she was to be injured, captured or trapped in Dimension X and Donnie was at least partly responsible (even if its only true from his own perspective) I could see him just freezing up.

Timothy would likely have the same effect, but I cant imagine him dying on show.

Raph - Being forced into a situation of leadership and screwing it up. He's already been shown to have almost lost it this way once. In that instance Donnie/Mikey got him going again (even if he still felt guilty). If the others werent there to do that (say he's leading an EPF team against the Foot/Kraang for instance and they were defeated badly) then I can imagine him panicking from weight of responsibility and guilt.

He's also the most likely to do so from his decisions causing injury/near death in his brothers.

Mikey - Loosing one of his brothers is the most likely thing to set him into that state. He is the cheery one obviously and whilst the others can rely on him to stabilise them, they have the maturity to hold their own in most cases. Mikey, by contrast, relies on them, knowing he has a family to protect. If he was betrayed (Raph seems the most likely in this regard as he is very protective of Mikey normally) i think the shock would be enough to really shake Mikey's faith in others. If Mikey has reason to blame himself, then even more so.

Leo - I think Leo is honestly the least likely to have this problem because of the way he's conditioned himself to be the leader and have the responsibilities that come with it. That said, I think his likely weak spot is Karai. He is already in a confusing situation with her emotionally, and I think being forced to fight and seriously injure her would place enough guilt on him (especially if Splinter were to lash out at him in anger - which is unlikely but feasibly possible), that it could send him over the edge.



The options increase dramatically were the show happy to go much darker, but I cant see it happening sadly.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

Donnie - The single most likely thing to send in into a depression is April. Not if she chooses Casey (that would just hurt). If she was to be injured, captured or trapped in Dimension X and Donnie was at least partly responsible (even if its only true from his own perspective) I could see him just freezing up.

Timothy would likely have the same effect, but I cant imagine him dying on show.

Well if deaths do occur it would be implied as a death. I mean we have seen Leo supposedly kill Justin..(Yeah we see him later in the background in the escape from that prison.) And Mikey kill those Parasitic wasps.

And it was implied that Donnie killed that one Kraang he crushed under the lift. Rat King is also implied to be dead, and while it is possible he could be brought back...I don't know what more they could do with him after Splinter caused him to fall off that cliff.

Donnie was only able to defeat the Mutagen man because he conveniently had the failed batch that froze over. And there are some moments where mutagen has been destroyed via explosion. But if the nick show had Donnie discover another means of destroying mutagen itself that is one thing.

But then again...they can also make the plot so that if and when Donnie does use retromutagen to turn Timothy back something goes wrong and it turns out that the Retromutagen and the Mutagen itself do not mix well. And since Timothy is purely mutagen now...

[Amaranthus]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Well if deaths do occur it would be implied as a death.

Don't you guys remember Leatherhead stabbing a Kraang with that crystal?
It wasn't the robot he stabbed. He stabbed the Kraang itself.

[Tarris Vaal]

That is true (and there are more blatant instances like Newtralizer eating one on screen), but there is a difference between killing robots and even non humanoids like Kraang and killing humanoid characters on screen.

I'd forgotten about Rat King in all fairness, but even then he falls into the dark (very Disney). Actual sword blow deaths or gunshots are currently unheard of, and I doubt they would be anything over than extremely rare (probably only to be used with characters like Shredder).

It is possible, (and don't get me wrong I think it would definitely be good to have shown where dramatically appropriate), but I find it unlikely Nick will shake the fact this is nominally a 'kids show'.

THAT SAID the big ray of hope here is season 3. The range of horror episodes (and the overall tone of them) is MUCH darker than it ever has been - Buried secrets and Dream Beavers especially. Plus the number of skeletons shown in Chimera was subtle, but definitely a shake up. Combine that with the strange scheduling to discourage very young viewers from keeping track and we might actually be seeing a chance for much darker stuff in future