Are Leo and Donnie more in tune to their human side than Mikey and Raph?

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Speaking broadly, Leo and Donnie are often more thoughtful and intelligent than Mikey and Raph, so it's natural that they will develop more of an affinity with other people. Although Mikey has his happy-go-lucky charm, but I feel that in this show he's depicted as too innocent/youthful to fully benefit from that in terms of human interaction.

Raph is often portrayed as a misanthrope/bully/general pr!ck. He isn't really any of these things, as we see in his moments of vulnerability, but it does put others off him. Even his relationship with Casey doesn't stand out in Nick to me really - the bond was far stronger in Mirage and 2k3, but perhaps that's because Casey is so young in Nick.

I've come to realize, anything that made Raph, well, Raph, from other incarnations, except for his temper and initial meeting of Casey, has been given to Donnie. From his original voice actor, the Raph being the one who saves April in the 1990 movie, to it should be him and Casey fixing up an old truck like in the comics, Raph's the one that takes a troubled kid under his wing in 2k3, and now, even his buddy Casey (face it, Casey hangs out or is stuck with Donnie far more than Raph it seems) well, most of these storylines have gone to Donnie.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

I've come to realize, anything that made Raph, well, Raph, from other incarnations, except for his temper and initial meeting of Casey, has been given to Donnie. From his original voice actor, the Raph being the one who saves April in the 1990 movie, to it should be him and Casey fixing up an old truck like in the comics, Raph's the one that takes a troubled kid under his wing in 2k3, and now, even his buddy Casey (face it, Casey hangs out or is stuck with Donnie far more than Raph it seems) well, most of these storylines have gone to Donnie.

It certainly seems that way. This show is very Donnie oriented, but obviously I won't complain about that. Beside Leo and Raph have generally been the prominent turtles in the property.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Actually, speaking of Mikey, I think it's in the episode that Donnie finally figures out the retromutagen and Mikey grabs it wondering what he'd look like if he used it and turned back to human... and was reminded that he never was.

I feel for these poor kids, they must be so confused... lol

Although I feel that was just for a joke only, I'll bite. Leo, Donnie, and Mikey are having an identity crisis.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Although I feel that was just for a joke only, I'll bite. Leo, Donnie, and Mikey are having an identity crisis.

Raph already had it and that's why he's pissed!

[Davetello]

Like Prowler, these days I certainly identify far more with Raphael and Donatello than Michelangelo and Leonardo in all iterations of the TMNT. My temper and cynicism allows me to connect to Raph and my studious and thoughtful side is all Donnie.

I don't have any leadership skills (I don't think) and I have zero innocence/youthful exuberance so I can't really identify with those two. In fact even as a boy I wasn't drawn to '87 Mike, unlike so many kids. But I still care about Mike and Leo a lot.

[Warrior]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

I've come to realize, anything that made Raph, well, Raph, from other incarnations, except for his temper and initial meeting of Casey, has been given to Donnie. From his original voice actor, the Raph being the one who saves April in the 1990 movie, to it should be him and Casey fixing up an old truck like in the comics, Raph's the one that takes a troubled kid under his wing in 2k3, and now, even his buddy Casey (face it, Casey hangs out or is stuck with Donnie far more than Raph it seems) well, most of these storylines have gone to Donnie.

I don't know if we can say these events necessarily made Raph Raph. The core of the character can still stay the same without a lot of the stuff you mentioned. If we're talking about the core of the character, then honestly, he's not all too different from previous incarnations personality-wise other then the fact that he, along with the rest of the turtles, act more like teenagers now rather than pseudo adults.

If you look at specific events and episodes dedicated to Raph, then he's not the star of a lot of them, and that might be a problem if it keeps going (though imho Mikey has that problem as well, even more so.) But the core line-to-line interactions with his brothers is very strong in showing him through. If it's one think this show gets right, it's the little moments of camaraderie among the turtles.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Although I feel that was just for a joke only, I'll bite. Leo, Donnie, and Mikey are having an identity crisis.

Which is why, imo makes it a perfect analogy for a coming of age story and if not that then it would still be a really introspective or existential kind of story.

Sons of The Silent Age was a brief glimpse of what goes on inside their heads and it also made it impossible for me look at them as funny talking animal cartoon characters.

I want to go deeper in that direction.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Davetello

I don't have any leadership skills (I don't think)

Nor do I (at best probably an indirect, lead by example sort), but there's I lot in Leo (collectively speaking, not just 2012) that I do relate to and appreciate within his persona.

Had this thought the other day, if I were out sitting under a big old tree on a hill in some quiet countryside with these four... I imagine Raph and Mikey would probably both become their own version of bored after roughly the same amount of time and wander off. Donnie might politely excuse himself a short time later, knowing he could be using the time to get something accomplished. Leo however, I could see him staying a while...

[BubblyShell22]

Yeah, I'm the youngest in my family, yet I identify with Leo so much more as I've gotten older mainly because I'm the one with my head on my shoulders and haven't screwed things up like my older siblings. Plus, I'm always the one trying to talk sense into my sis and to let her know what I think of her decisions and how I feel that they aren't good for her just as Leo would do to Raph. And I'm also pretty hard on myself when it comes to failure and not being good enough, so I definitely relate there, too.

Also, I agree about Mikey wanting to be human because he wants to be accepted by society and fit in with them. I see Raph as more skeptical of humans and not wanting to trust them which is why he's more attuned to his animal side.

And I agree about birds. Hate them!

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Nor do I (at best probably an indirect, lead by example sort), but there's I lot in Leo (collectively speaking, not just 2012) that I do relate to and appreciate within his persona.

Had this thought the other day, if I were out sitting under a big old tree on a hill in some quiet countryside with these four... I imagine Raph and Mikey would probably both become their own version of bored after roughly the same amount of time and wander off. Donnie might politely excuse himself a short time later, knowing he could be using the time to get something accomplished. Leo however, I could see him staying a while...

I can see the parallels between you and Leo, certainly.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Like Prowler, these days I certainly identify far more with Raphael and Donatello than Michelangelo and Leonardo in all iterations of the TMNT. My temper and cynicism allows me to connect to Raph and my studious and thoughtful side is all Donnie.

I don't have any leadership skills (I don't think) and I have zero innocence/youthful exuberance so I can't really identify with those two. In fact even as a boy I wasn't drawn to '87 Mike, unlike so many kids. But I still care about Mike and Leo a lot.

Eh, I have 0 leadership skills as well, and unfortunately, I also don't like being told what to do. So in the end, I work best alone and not part of a team.

Originally Posted by Warrior

I don't know if we can say these events necessarily made Raph Raph. The core of the character can still stay the same without a lot of the stuff you mentioned. If we're talking about the core of the character, then honestly, he's not all too different from previous incarnations personality-wise other then the fact that he, along with the rest of the turtles, act more like teenagers now rather than pseudo adults.

If you look at specific events and episodes dedicated to Raph, then he's not the star of a lot of them, and that might be a problem if it keeps going (though imho Mikey has that problem as well, even more so.) But the core line-to-line interactions with his brothers is very strong in showing him through. If it's one think this show gets right, it's the little moments of camaraderie among the turtles.

Both Mikey and Raph have been the butt of jokes, the screw ups in this show. It's just a little disheartening to see and feel that the writers don't think much of half of the pack, or at least enough to write them beyond their stereotypes. My biggest beef is that they are making Raph seem so dumb compared to the others. In other incarnations, yeah, he was no scholar, but he was quick to react, and could make a plan for situations, had good intuitions with people and was also known for his street smarts. The one thing that is still irking me, is that 2k3, the movies or this new show seems to want to forget that Raphael actually knows about engines and cars, and they could use him as backup to Donnie, instead of Donnie being the only one to get all of the glory when it comes to these types of things. And then, Mikey has his writing skills. I'd love it if they made an episode where he started to write stories online, and he gained a fan who wanted to meet him, and this all surprised the other brothers who are used to the loose minded Mikey, actually having the discipline and thought to write out intricate stories.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Eh, I have 0 leadership skills as well, and unfortunately, I also don't like being told what to do. So in the end, I work best alone and not part of a team.

The force Nightwatcher is strong in this one.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

And then, Mikey has his writing skills. I'd love it if they made an episode where he started to write stories online, and he gained a fan who wanted to meet him, and this all surprised the other brothers who are used to the loose minded Mikey, actually having the discipline and thought to write out intricate stories.

Ahh that would be adorable if he had like a fiction blog or something. (Edit: Self publish his own comics online?? Turtle Titan!)

Then, I dunno, make the fan turn out to be Mona Lisa or another girl like that. Have 'em both in disguise when they meet and takes a while for something to finally happen that causes them to both figure out that neither is human. Awwww...

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

The force Nightwatcher is strong in this one.

I know. I totally missed my calling. I should have been a Delta Force sniper. Oh well, can't turn back time now.

Ahh that would be adorable if he had like a fiction blog or something. (Edit: Self publish his own comics online?? Turtle Titan!)

Then, I dunno, make the fan turn out to be Mona Lisa or another girl like that. Have 'em both in disguise when they meet and takes a while for something to finally happen that causes them to both figure out that neither is human. Awwww...

That would be cute. (Or also, maybe it's April or one of the brothers who becomes a fan, and doesn't even know it's Mikey doing the writing the whole time.) Sh!t, this brainstorming for ideas stuff is fun!

[BubblyShell22]

That would be cool if it was April or one of the other Turtles was the fan. I really wish they would show something like this.