Marvel/Sony in negotiations over Spider-Man Rights

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Actually engaging and thought-provoking stories. Which the Marvel comics of yesteryear always managed, and which only a few of their movies actually acheive



...This was one of them. This had a tight, nuanced and cerebral performances and storytelling in addition to popcorn value, and yet Edward Norton was driven from the production and became disillusioned with how Marvel perceived the finished product. Marvel took years to have another film like it (Winter Soldier) and by this point, they seemed more ready to tell that kind of story than they were in 2008 when they were trying to find an audience

I get ya, man. And I thought that was a pretty good flick. But that's a problem with translating it for the medium: You got two hours, most of which HAS to be "bang-bang-pow" or people won't go. Story suffers. That's why TV shows based on comics are always better than the movies. Comics and TV shows tell stories the same way, chapter-by-chapter, just one is paper and one is visual. Movies, you have to cram the best of everything into two hours. There's just no really GOOD way to do it. Some are better than others, but none really do it Perfectly. It's the limitations of the medium.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I get ya, man. And I thought that was a pretty good flick. But that's a problem with translating it for the medium: You got two hours, most of which HAS to be "bang-bang-pow" or people won't go. Story suffers. That's why TV shows based on comics are always better than the movies. Comics and TV shows tell stories the same way, chapter-by-chapter, just one is paper and one is visual. Movies, you have to cram the best of everything into two hours. There's just no really GOOD way to do it. Some are better than others, but none really do it Perfectly. It's the limitations of the medium.

Very true. Wish it could be handled better (and there are cases of it working with book series adaptations), but it's a hard nut to crack open given you have to sacrifice so much of the internal continuity and logic to tell a story that will make sense right from the get go. It's that idea of "Every comic can be your first" applied to films, but without much to munch on.

[sdp]

My point is made when you guys agree that they are formulaic/cookie cutter. We can disagree in that you prefer that and for me its not enough. Now don't get me wrong I enjoy the Marvel movies usually but they are rather forgettable and its hard for me to get excited when they're pumping so many of them out and they're all so similar. If you enjoy them that's fine, I'm all for people liking things but the internet in general has such a boner over these films that its annoying with people treating like Marvel can do no wrong or that DC sucks just because it isn't Marvel? Hell just take a look at the different reaction of DC's and Marvel's announcements for the next 5 years, people said that no one cared for movies so far away and yet they creamed their pants when Marvel did the exact same thing a week later. So yeah I'm fine with Sony keeping Spidey and Fox X-Men which by the way the last two X-men movies have been better than anything Marvel has put out sans Iron Man.

[Leo656]

Marvel is definitely doing too many movies. I know DC potentially is supposed to be as well, but let's wait and see how BvS goes first before we let anybody jump down their throat.

We already know that Marvel is definitely doing a bunch of "Literally Nobody Cares" movies about sh*t like Ant-Man and Dr. Strange. ANT-MAN, for god's sake. NOBODY ASKED FOR THAT! How can anyone even say the words, "I am excited for ANT-MAN" out loud with a straight face? It's just that they tried their experiment with Guardians, "Can We Literally Put Anything With 'MARVEL' On It In Theaters and Make A Gazillion Dollars", and the answer was a resounding, overwhelming "YES." I haven't seen it yet so I can't speak to its quality, just that it's kind of the biggest "pulling sh*t out of their ass" stunt that they've ever pulled and they blatantly did it just to f*ck with everyone. I mean, it looks fun. I see all the super-hero flicks so I'll see it and probably like it, but I maintain, absolutely Zero people asked for or wanted to see that movie until Marvel started beating everyone over the head with it. Not one person in the entire world ever said, "Y'know, it's great that Hulk and Thor and Captain America all get to be in movies, but you know what would make things *perfect*? If someone did a movie about Rocket Raccoon." They just made that movie to prove that they could get away with it and actually turn it into something.

Now, they've got the green light to do whatever they want, and they are. So I can't blame anyone for being a little weary at this point. Anybody who's arguing that they're cookie cutter and forgettable should probably just give up, it's only gonna get worse from here.

"The Amazing Slapstick", coming Spring/Summer 2020. You heard it here first.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Actually, Leo, I disagree with that stance. Ant-Man (aka Hank Pym, aka Yellow-jacket/Giant Man/Ultron's creator) was one of the first Avengers, yet hasn't even been mentioned (except maybe once) and has YET to appear on the team. Since Ultron is one of their main villains for the next phase, it makes sense to have a movie about him, though I suspect it will be more of a joint movie with both him and Wasp(Janet). As for Strange, he is also a major A-lister, and one of Marvel's FEW supernatural/magic-using characters, which they've already dabbled in with Wanda being in the up-coming Avengers movie. Strange is also currently an Avenger in the books, so that one makes a lot of sense too. They DO have a purpose for these characters appearing, even if we haven't seen it yet.

[sdp]

Well as far as the Ant-Man film apparently it has had a lot of backstage drama and the director left and a "yes" man was put in place so who knows how it'll go. But when written correctly Ant-Man and Wasp are awesome characters so I'm actually curious to see how the movie turns out. Dr. Strange is another movie that could be awesome if done well but my favorite interpretation of the character is a little too similar to the first Iron Man movie so I guess they can't do that one. But that's another reason why its better for Marvel not to have the "big ones" with Spider-Man and X-Men since it forces them to use other cool characters they have, I still remember reading from the NYTimes that the reason Disney bought Marvel was not the iconic heroes but the way Marvel was able to make this unknown hero (Iron Man) and make him into a AAA one.

I can agree with some of the other movies like the Inhumans movie or most of the TV shows they're making. But yeah my lack of Marvel enthusiasm is mostly because of being inundated by their movies and fans going MARVEL CAN DO NO WRONG. At least with DC they offer something different, they learned the lesson about not copying Marvel when Green Lantern failed. Say what you want about MoS but at least it felt different. I hope Marvel keeps being successful but I think superhero movies are on a limited time at least with so many being released so frequently, we'll start seeing most of them bomb and we'll go back to only a few every once in a while. I'd try to predict but I was sure after Avengers / Watchmen people would just be done with superheroes and I was wrong.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

That's the thing though. Iron Man was NEVER an "unknown" hero- he's been an A-lister from the beginning. So was Thor. These are core members of their PREMIER hero team. And every one of them has had huge fan followings among comic readers. Ant-Man not so much, but he's been a staple of the team almost since the beginning, too. Strange is off-beat, sure, but he's also the biggest "mystical" character in EITHER stable- Marvel OR DC. DC's closest equivalent is Zatana, and she's hardly in the same league.

What I'd really like to see is a Daredevil reboot or sequel (Elektra doesn't count) that does justice to the character. And FYI, I've seen some test footage of the Deadpool movie that's in the works, and trust me- this is ONE movie that will definitely break the "cookie-cutter mold" of superhero movies, if what I saw is anything to go by. Ryan Reynolds is reprising his role, but THIS time, they got it right! (And OMFG, is he funny/nuts/violent!!)

[Candy Kappa]

I'd say neither Thor or Iron Man is a A-lister outside of hardcore comic book readers. If Marvel had the rights to Wolverine and Spider-Man, we might have not gotten Iron Man movies or Thor movies.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by sdp

I was sure after Avengers / Watchmen people would just be done with superheroes and I was wrong.

At the time I saw those movies more as the rise/inflation of the bubble and not the burst, the burst is the schedule Marvel and DC have put out for everything coming up.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Sometime after Disney purchased Marvel, they somehow bought the rights of the Iron Man films, Thor, and Captain America from Viacom and Paramount Pictures. How were they able to do that but unable to get the rights of Spider-Man, X-Men, and Fantastic Four back from Sony and Fox? Are those the only 3 Marvel properties they do not have the rights to? How does this all work?

[The Stryker]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

At the time I saw those movies more as the rise/inflation of the bubble and not the burst, the burst is the schedule Marvel and DC have put out for everything coming up.

Exactly. I don't think it's going to be any one movie that causes the burst. It's just going to be oversaturation.

Good, Bad or Indifferent. Too much is going to kill it.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Sometime after Disney purchased Marvel, they somehow bought the rights of the Iron Man films, Thor, and Captain America from Viacom and Paramount Pictures. How were they able to do that but unable to get the rights of Spider-Man, X-Men, and Fantastic Four back from Sony and Fox? Are those the only 3 Marvel properties they do not have the rights to? How does this all work?

Spider-Man, X-Men and Fantastic Four movies all made lots of money, even the bad ones. None of the companies who had been sitting on the rights to Iron Man, Captain America, etc. had ever even gotten past the script stage and were nowhere near close to ever getting a movie made, and in the long run the development was going to cost more than they would have made back. Basically, if they were ever going to do anything with those characters, they already would have. They didn't know how to proceed, Marvel offered them a bunch of money to take the characters off their hands, and it was win/win for everyone involved.

Marvel buying them back was actually doing those other companies a huge favor; they were never going to do anything with them anyway, and if they did, it probably would've been bad, just going by how long they had them and how little they had to show for it. It shows they had no real plans and those movies would've just been thrown together to keep the rights, nothing more. It's tougher with Spidey, etc. because even the sh*t movies make money. Marvel absolutely could - and possibly will - be able to buy them back at some point, but right now it it would cost them too much to be worth it.

I see Marvel getting F4 back inside of a decade after the new one bombs, but nobody cares about F4 anyway, that's a dumb franchise. They'll probably also get Spider-Man back sooner rather than later since it's proving to be nothing but headaches for Sony. It will be just like with the other characters, Marvel will be doing them a "favor", but Sony will have to put out a couple more bad movies that under-perform at the box office, first, to make it worthwhile for Marvel. It's too expensive right now because it's still a "hot" franchise, although the cracks are showing.

Only one I can't see them ever getting back is X-Men. Barring a huge disaster, like a series of "Superman IV"-level Epic Failures, that one will never happen. That franchise has proven itself to be bullet-proof; I can't see it ever becoming devalued to the point Marvel would spend the fortune it would cost to get it back. I'm almost positive now that they WILL get F4 and Spidey one day, but not X-Men. Not unless something really bad happens.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by sdp

But yeah my lack of Marvel enthusiasm is mostly because of being inundated by their movies and fans going MARVEL CAN DO NO WRONG. At least with DC they offer something different, they learned the lesson about not copying Marvel when Green Lantern failed.

Sounds like you have problems with fans of Marvel rather than Marvel movies themselves. I advice not waste attention on anyone and just enjoy movies you like. Fans of whatever can just say and do whatever they want to do. Their actions shouldn't affect you.

Green Lantern had failed because it was a bad movie, not because it was too "marvel"ous.

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

How were they able to do that but unable to get the rights of Spider-Man, X-Men, and Fantastic Four back from Sony and Fox? Are those the only 3 Marvel properties they do not have the rights to? How does this all work?

Sony's Spider-Man has started in 2001 and it was incredibly popular back then, so naturally, Marvel was unable to acquire rights to it. The same goes for X-Men, which started in 2000. I guess, Fox didn't want to sell F4, because they were under impression that they can turn it into profitable series, like X-Men.

As far as I know, the only other Marvel comic book IP, that doesn't belong to Marvel Studios is a Namor, who for whatever reason, owned by Paramount, if I am not mistaking.

[TurtleTitan97]

Sounds like the deal has (possibly) gone through! Warning, some spoilers relating to Infinity Wars part 1: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit...news/?a=113625

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Oh man. That sounds way too detailed to be true.

But I don't care if everything else in that article is false - I just hope the bit about Spidey being the MCU is true.

[MrTMNT2012]

Could it be...could I finally be able to watch my favourite superhero in a GOOD Movie again?!

[NinjaPug]

Don't trust the original source (Da7e from LR) of that rumor at all.

Can Avi Arad be removed from the Spider-Man movie property? I don't know the legal options that Sony/Marvel has but there is no way Marvel would work with Arad.

[TurtleTitan97]

Well this is disappointing. The rumor was false http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit...news/?a=113663

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

There isn't going to be a bubble burst, hollywood will keep pumping out comic book movies and people with continue to see them wether they are hot or not. People act like hollywood will stop making comic book movies once they are no longer hot, only when the earth is erased will comic book movies stop being made, comic book fans seem to give the general audience too much credit. They aren't that smart. Comic book fans act like the general audience knows more than they do when it comes to comic book movies. Much of the general audience who were never comic book fans to begin with couldn't be bothered to read issues and/or do research on a comic book character or characters in a comic book movie that they are interested in before it's released. If they don't find out one way or another by a person about the comic book movie they are interested in then they'll just take it at face value and believe it to be true when it comes to comics that they are based on. My brother actually asked me if green lantern is a marvel comics character. He used to be into comics but that was a long time ago, he should know that green lantern is a dc comics character given that he saw the green lantern movie. He's 33 years old.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

There isn't going to be a bubble burst, hollywood will keep pumping out comic book movies and people with continue to see them wether they are hot or not. People act like hollywood will stop making comic book movies once they are no longer hot, only when the earth is erased will comic book movies stop being made, comic book fans seem to give the general audience too much credit. They aren't that smart. Comic book fans act like the general audience knows more than they do when it comes to comic book movies. Much of the general audience who were never comic book fans to begin with couldn't be bothered to read issues and/or do research on a comic book character or characters in a comic book movie that they are interested in before it's released. If they don't find out one way or another by a person about the comic book movie they are interested in then they'll just take some comic book movie at face value and believe it to be true when it comes to comics that they are based on. My brother actually asked me if green lantern is a marvel comics chracter. He used to be into comics but that was along time ago, he should know that green lantern is a dc comics character given that he saw the green lantern movie. He's 33 years old.

I know I didn't mind Catwomen (with Halle Berry) when I was younger

but I knew nothing about Catwomen before so I didn't notice all the changes to the character and story.