So what's the big deal about not depicting Shredder as a normal human?

[Vegeta]

A human foe is just more interesting as the turtles deal with so many other mutants and aliens. Shredder being a master at kicking the turtles asses comes off as more impressive to me when he is human. I agree that Shredder's character can be a bit one sided and bland but the IDW version is so vile and full of hate it's hard to not be intrigued by him a little.

[Mirror image]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

He's still human in most incarnations, where are you getting this from?

OT = human
Nick = human
Movies = human (even after Super Shredder)
Archie = human
Mirage = human (worm clones separate character)
IDW = human (resurrected but still human)

It was only in 4kids he was an Utrom and yet there was still a human Oroku Saki in the past.

Honestly it is somewhat vague what happened to Shredder after he got blown up by his own termite bomb. Yes, the soul of worms don't live on inside regular worms that eat them, but remember the creation of worm Shredder was that of both science and magic so perhaps it was only his corporal form that came to be via worms adapting their foods DNA.

Just saying I would prefer it that way because otherwise the newer Shredder is taking revenge on the turtles for being the catalyst for him coming into the world as without the death of the original Shredder the life of the ''clone'' as he has been called would never have existed.

[ToTheNines]

What the thread title sounded like in my brain:

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

What the thread title sounded like in my brain:

https://i.imgflip.com/a4yehv.jpg

I dare you to write an actual Jerry Seinfeld style joke about Shredder's human status.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I dare you to write an actual Jerry Seinfeld style joke about Shredder's human status.

I just asked DeepSeek to do it lol:

Spoiler:

*(Jerry Seinfeld walks out to applause, adjusts the mic, and leans in with his familiar observational cadence.)*

Alright, how are you? Good to see you. You know, we all have problems. Your Wi-Fi’s slow, your avocado’s a little too hard… first-world stuff.

But have you ever really stopped to think about the problems of a *supervillain*? I was thinking about this. There’s this guy, from my… less mature television viewing days… The Shredder. From the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Remember this guy? He’s the main villain. Very serious. Very angry. And his whole thing is he’s covered in… blades. That’s his look. The outfit is just… sharp metal. Everywhere.

What is the meeting with his tailor like? He goes in for a fitting.
“Alright, Mr. Shredder, let’s see… we’re gonna take in the shoulders… AHHH! MY HANDS! I’M BLEEDING! YOU’RE COVERED IN KNIVES!”
“Yes. That is the point.”
“The point is I can’t hem your pants without requiring a tetanus shot!”

And the dry cleaning. Forget it.
“Okay, sir, that’ll be one ticket for the suit, and… sir? Sir, the machine… it’s making a sound… it sounds like it’s screaming…”

He can’t do anything! You ever see him try to scratch an itch? It’s a disaster. He’s got to call in one of his henchmen.
“You there. My nose. The left side. Gently. No, not with the club! Use your finger! AHH, YOU’VE IMPALED MY NOSTRIL!”

This is a man who has never experienced the simple joy of a hug. Can you imagine? His daughter comes home from school, “Daddy!” … “NO! NOT DADDY! POINTY DADDY! GO TO YOUR ROOM AND BANDAGE THAT!”

His entire life is a series of minor inconveniences we never think about. Getting into a car.
*Mimes trying to squeeze into a sedan.*
“Your seatbelt, sir?” “I AM THE SEATBELT.”

And the motivation! What does he even want? He runs a criminal organization, the Foot Clan. The Foot Clan. Not exactly a fearsome name. The Foot. Sounds like a podiatrist’s convention.
“We are the Foot! We shall step on you! We are notorious for our athlete’s foot! Fear our orthotics!”

And he’s obsessed with these turtles. That’s his whole deal. “I must destroy the Turtles!” Sir, you are a grown man in a blender costume. They are teenagers. Who are turtles. And they live in the sewer. You’ve already won! Just… let them be. They’re eating pizza off the floor. You’re fine.

He’s always so angry. But you’d be angry too if your battle plan kept getting foiled by a talking rat. That’s his arch-nemesis. A rat. A wise, sensei rat, but still. You’re the head of a global criminal empire, and your biggest setback is a rodent who lives in a drainpipe.

“My schemes are ruined! By vermin! …Actually, that tracks.”

And the name. “Shredder.” Not exactly inspiring terror. Sounds like a guy who works at a Office Depot.
“What do you do for a living?”
“I’m a Shredder.”
“Oh, important documents?”
“No. Justice. And also any hope of fitting into a standard elevator.”

It’s a tough way to live. All that anger, all those blades. Deep down, I think he’s just lonely. He just wants someone to get close. But nobody can. Because he’s covered in razors.

He’s his own fortress of solitude. And his own greatest enemy. And probably a nightmare at a movie theater.

*(Shrugs)*
But that’s just me.

Thank you, you’ve been great! Good night!

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I just asked DeepSeek to do it lol:

Spoiler:

*(Jerry Seinfeld walks out to applause, adjusts the mic, and leans in with his familiar observational cadence.)*

Alright, how are you? Good to see you. You know, we all have problems. Your Wi-Fi’s slow, your avocado’s a little too hard… first-world stuff.

But have you ever really stopped to think about the problems of a *supervillain*? I was thinking about this. There’s this guy, from my… less mature television viewing days… The Shredder. From the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Remember this guy? He’s the main villain. Very serious. Very angry. And his whole thing is he’s covered in… blades. That’s his look. The outfit is just… sharp metal. Everywhere.

What is the meeting with his tailor like? He goes in for a fitting.
“Alright, Mr. Shredder, let’s see… we’re gonna take in the shoulders… AHHH! MY HANDS! I’M BLEEDING! YOU’RE COVERED IN KNIVES!”
“Yes. That is the point.”
“The point is I can’t hem your pants without requiring a tetanus shot!”

And the dry cleaning. Forget it.
“Okay, sir, that’ll be one ticket for the suit, and… sir? Sir, the machine… it’s making a sound… it sounds like it’s screaming…”

He can’t do anything! You ever see him try to scratch an itch? It’s a disaster. He’s got to call in one of his henchmen.
“You there. My nose. The left side. Gently. No, not with the club! Use your finger! AHH, YOU’VE IMPALED MY NOSTRIL!”

This is a man who has never experienced the simple joy of a hug. Can you imagine? His daughter comes home from school, “Daddy!” … “NO! NOT DADDY! POINTY DADDY! GO TO YOUR ROOM AND BANDAGE THAT!”

His entire life is a series of minor inconveniences we never think about. Getting into a car.
*Mimes trying to squeeze into a sedan.*
“Your seatbelt, sir?” “I AM THE SEATBELT.”

And the motivation! What does he even want? He runs a criminal organization, the Foot Clan. The Foot Clan. Not exactly a fearsome name. The Foot. Sounds like a podiatrist’s convention.
“We are the Foot! We shall step on you! We are notorious for our athlete’s foot! Fear our orthotics!”

And he’s obsessed with these turtles. That’s his whole deal. “I must destroy the Turtles!” Sir, you are a grown man in a blender costume. They are teenagers. Who are turtles. And they live in the sewer. You’ve already won! Just… let them be. They’re eating pizza off the floor. You’re fine.

He’s always so angry. But you’d be angry too if your battle plan kept getting foiled by a talking rat. That’s his arch-nemesis. A rat. A wise, sensei rat, but still. You’re the head of a global criminal empire, and your biggest setback is a rodent who lives in a drainpipe.

“My schemes are ruined! By vermin! …Actually, that tracks.”

And the name. “Shredder.” Not exactly inspiring terror. Sounds like a guy who works at a Office Depot.
“What do you do for a living?”
“I’m a Shredder.”
“Oh, important documents?”
“No. Justice. And also any hope of fitting into a standard elevator.”

It’s a tough way to live. All that anger, all those blades. Deep down, I think he’s just lonely. He just wants someone to get close. But nobody can. Because he’s covered in razors.

He’s his own fortress of solitude. And his own greatest enemy. And probably a nightmare at a movie theater.

*(Shrugs)*
But that’s just me.

Thank you, you’ve been great! Good night!

I hate that I found that funny. It was just very easy to read in Seinfeld's voice, and most of it wouldn't be too out of place for 87 Shredder.

[ToTheNines]

Haha I know, it really did nail Jerry’s “voice”.

Very believable too, since one of his teenage girlfriends in the 90’s could have introduced them to TMNT.

[TylerD]

Originally Posted by neatoman

So I know there tends to be a bit of a controversy when the Shredder is depicted as anything other than a regular human (Utrom Shredder is probably the most known controversy, but see also Undead Shredder and Mechasuit Shredder).

Why though is something I don't really sympathise with. I mean let's face it, the Shredder looks cool but that's really about it, in terms of depth and personality he kind of sucks. He's usually a pretty shallow character, usually driven by revenge or desires of conquest with very few definable traits added. The closest a "normal" version of him has been given something more is the Nickelodeon Shredder, and that version of him just feels confusing to be honest.

You might as well mess around with him, at least that way he'll have something a little more interesting about him.

Have to disagree to be honest.... Shredder is and always will be one of the greatest villians of all time (yes all time... any comic, movie, etc) Shredders backstory in most storys is always exciting, and one of the very few that you can somewhat have a bit of compassion for him.... and yet find him a total psycho.... Mirage will always be my favorite.... Simple, and yet so well done. A simple revenge plot (revenging his brothers death) I don't find Shredder (Oroku Saki) in the least bit boring....

I will say however, I don't mind other variations of Shredder... I know the Utrom Shredder is a bit of a controversial one, but I didn't mind it, and I liked that changed things up than the typical human version of Shredder. With that said, he is a staple in villians, just like Joker is to Batman, Green Goblin is to Spiderman, Reverse Flash (Thawne) is to The Flash, Lex Luthor is to Superman, etc, etc.....

I love a storyline that doesn't involve Shredder from time to time, but overall I never get tired of Shredder, and keeping him human is the way to go with his backstory depending what it is.

[Andrew NDB]

Utrom Shredder is just cardboard. There isn't anything there. Nothing, beyond a vague sense of, "I want to conquer THE UNIVERSE!! BWAHAHAAHA!!" But that's not of any substance. It wasn't thought through on any level that I can discern.

Mirage Shredder is interesting, at least. At heart, he was just a little boy that wanted to avenge his big brother... but after doing so he gets sucked deeper and deeper into this circle of vengeance he didn't even really start.

[Coola Yagami]

The only depth Ch'Rell had was, for whatever reason, taking the time to train and adopt Karai. The fact he sometimes seems to care about her (while other times he treats her as disposable) keeps him from being completely black and white. But I guess they were forced to do that because they wanted to bring in Karai but keep Shredder alive so they had to put her somewhere.

Then he returned in Turtles Forever seeing red and only focused on killing the turtles.

[TylerD]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Utrom Shredder is just cardboard. There isn't anything there. Nothing, beyond a vague sense of, "I want to conquer THE UNIVERSE!! BWAHAHAAHA!!" But that's not of any substance. It wasn't thought through on any level that I can discern.

Mirage Shredder is interesting, at least. At heart, he was just a little boy that wanted to avenge his big brother... but after doing so he gets sucked deeper and deeper into this circle of vengeance he didn't even really start.

Well said. How I feel too

[shredder orokusaki]

Iam the best ninja of the world and yes most of the times iam human. Only in 2003 i was alien and demon. But the turltes are very weak anyway compared to me. Human or alien or demon or zombie iam the best ninja!

[ToTheNines]

Bill Burr style standup about a guy who thinks he’s Shredder. Also by DeepSeek:

Spoiler:

*(The lights come up on Bill Burr, pacing the stage like a caged animal, sipping water. He places the bottle down on the stool.)*

Alright, how we doin'? Good? Yeah, you look good. I look like a peeled potato someone left on the radiator. But that's not your problem.

So, my wife, right? She's got this friend. And this friend is married to... a *project*. A real piece of work. This guy. This guy is the reason they had to invent a new type of unemployment. He doesn't have a job. He "manages his online brand."

*(Scratches head, incredulous)*

His "online brand." For what? Selling dick pills? No. Day trading crypto? Worse. This fat bastard... he's Shredder. From the Ninja Turtles.

*(Pauses for the laugh)*

I'm not kidding you. I went over there for some ******** barbecue, right? "Come over, the kids miss you." The kids are terrified of me. So I'm there, and this guy, Kevin, is not eating a burger. He's in the corner, on his laptop, *typing* with this intense look on his face. Like he's defusing a bomb. He's got the focus of a heart surgeon.

I go, "Kevin, what the hell are you doing, man? The hot dogs are gettin' cold."

And without lookin' up, he goes... in this low, gravelly voice... *"I am overseeing the Foot Clan's operations in the tri-state area. The Turtles will not disrupt our plans again."*

*(Stares blankly at the audience)*

I just stood there. I looked at this 42-year-old man with a gravy stain on his t-shirt, talking about the "tri-state area" like he's not referring to New Jersey, New York, and... ****in' Connecticut. What's he gonna do, attack New Haven? Steal all the pizza? Good luck, you fat ****, they've been trying for decades.

So I go, "Kevin. You're a mortgage broker from Scarsdale. Your 'Foot Clan' is three guys you met on a message board who are also afraid of their wives."

He gets *pissed*. Slams the laptop shut. "You know nothing of the Way of the Oroku Saki! My cyber-shurikens are feared across a thousand sub-reddits!"

*(Loses it, pacing faster)*

**CYBER-SHURIKENS!** Are you **KIDDING** me?! A shuriken is a metal thing that *cuts people*! A "cyber-shuriken" is you typing an angry comment and then hitting 'send'! "I shall defeat you with my *strongly worded rebuttal!*"

What does he do all day? I looked it up. He's on forums. Arguing. Arguing about the *lore*. He's in these heated debates with other grown-ass men about the tensile strength of Krang's robot body. He's photoshopping his face onto pictures of Shredder and posting them with captions like "**The Technodrome is fully operational. Pray we do not alter the deal further.**"

You're altering the deal on your cable package, Kevin! You're not a super-villain, you're a guy who has to ask his wife if he can spend sixty bucks on a new action figure!

And the gear! This is the best part. He's bought the costume. Of course he has. Two hundred pounds of washed-up ambition stuffed into a cheap vinyl outfit from some weird guy in Thailand. He puts it on and he can't breathe. He's in the basement, wheezing, "**Tonight I dine on turtle soup!**" while his upstairs, his actual, human children are asking their mom why daddy is making those noises again.

The worst part? He's a *gatekeeper* Shredder. You try to talk to him about it, he's like, "Oh, you like the *1990 film* Shredder? Cute. I prefer the nuanced menace of the *Mirage Comics* iteration, you filthy casual."

*(Imitating a nerdy, superior voice)*

"You filthy casual." Says the man whose greatest physical feat this decade was getting the lid off a new jar of mayonnaise.

What is his endgame? What is the goal? To be the most respected Shredder guy on the internet? To finally win the argument that the 1987 cartoon had the best portrayal of Baxter Stockman? Congratulations, Kevin! You win! Your prize is dying alone in a basement surrounded by pizza boxes and plastic ninjas! Your epitaph will be "He Had a Surprisingly Detailed Knowledge of Mutagen Canisters."

He's not a villain. He's a sad man LARPing as a character who lives in the sewer. The irony is so thick you could cut it with a... well, you could cut it with a real weapon, not a ****in' cyber-shuriken.

*(Takes a sip of water)*

I almost feel bad for him. Almost. Then I remember he tried to pay me for a six-pack last week with a handful of arcade tokens he called "Foot Clan currency."

You're not Shredder, Kevin. You're a guy who needs to shred his credit cards and get a ****in' job.

Thank you, you've been great! Goodnight!

*(Exits stage, still muttering)*

Foot Clan currency... unbelievable...