TMNT Volume 5?

[Xav]

Originally Posted by Peter Palmer

Not necessarily. The distinction is that the titles are different even if the core characters are the same. Same goes with Tales of the TMNT, Times Pipeline, Turtle Soup...none of them are considered a volume of TMNT because the title of the book is not "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" (or just TMNT in the case of Volume 4).

Thinking more critically, you'll remember that many of the stories that take place within volume 1 do not exist in the Mirage continuity. Many of those stories were treated as if they never happened in later stories yet they still count as "Volume 1". Why? Mirage continuity or not, the book was titled "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles". The same logic applies to the Image & IDW series'.

What about Dreamwave? By your logic that would be Volume 5 not IDW.

[Peter Palmer]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

What is so difficult to understand? If its not about the Mirage Turtles it shouldn't be considered a "volume" which is why IDW and Archie are not.

Tales of the TMNT was a companion book, along with all those one-shot specials and mini-series. It doesn't matter which issues are canon or not, they were all in the Mirage universe.

IDW and Archie are completely separate, neither one would be a Volume 5

In order for this rule set to work, you'd need to define "Mirage Turtles". Do any Turtles published by Mirage count? How about the movie adaptation from 1990? How about the movie adaptations from the 2007 movie? All are "Mirage Turtles" to some degree yet none are included in any of the "volumes" as they're currently labelled.

Going in the other direction...if I were to ask Peter Laird today if he'd consider the turtles in the Image run "Mirage Turtles", do you think he'd say "yes"? I don't see them as "Mirage Turtles"...I see them as an alternate version of the Turtles akin to the direction that Zulli, Martin, or any of the adaptations took. Image, just like these others, are isolated and separate from the main continuity/story of the turtles and while I can easily enjoy them, I don't mentally tie them back to the original turtles introduced in 1984. However, because of the title these stories were published under, they are categorized within certain volumes. Zulli's, Martin's, and any number of other guest creators from the early days could easily be categorized in volume 1 because they are titled and sequenced as such right on the cover. Image used the title and started the numbering system over, which generally constitutes a new volume. Continuity doesn't really play a factor in labelling a volume (see my earlier post on volume 1, for example), it's completely about the title & numbering.

Volume 1 set the standard and told us that it's not the content or continuity of a book that determines the volume classification, it's the title and numbering. That's what I'm getting at. Again, my personal ideal numbering would take Image out of the equation so Volume 4 would become Volume 3. That would leave Image, IDW, and any future TMNT-titled books to be identified independent of Mirage's books.

Originally Posted by Xav

What about Dreamwave? By your logic that would be Volume 5 not IDW.

That's actually a REALLY good point. I completely forgot about this run. This brings up a lot of questions that I don't know the answers to off the top of my head. In my mind, "volumes" refer to ongoing series' and not limited mini-series'. At 7 issues, was the Dreamwave run meant to be ongoing and it got cancelled or was it a mini-series from the beginning? Either way...TMNT Volume 2 only had 13 issues. What constitutes a mini-series? Does volume 2 fall into that category? If so, should it be named volume 2? Is there any exception when volumes actively run concurrently (Like volume 4 and Dreamwave)?

To answer your question, under my current definitition and not knowing the answer to these questions, yes, under my current definitition Dreamwave would possibly be volume 5 (as long as it wasn't designed as a limited series) and IDW would be volume 6.

That Image series just made the whole thing complicated.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Joey Kamikaze

If you're going to start trying to call non-Mirage continuity stuff "Volume This or That" then you're going to have to account for TMNTA in there too.

But nope, TMNTA and TMNT IDW are their own things, not numbered volumes in line with the original universe.

Not really, as the Archie comic was called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Adventures".

This topic have been discussed before.

Why the Comic Strips, Dreamwave and the IDW comic isn't labeled as volumes despite sharing the same name. They don't share the same continuity with the Mirage books, albeit that isn't neccessary to be a part of a collection of volumes, they aren't a part of the Mirage Comics collection.

The canon of Volume 3 is very wiffy waffy, but it is following the canon of the previous volumes (of the stories that is considered canon). And, Volume 4 starts well within the time period that Volume 3 could have happened (since the turtles' injuries healed up at the end of volume 3) and there aren't too much stuff in Volume 4, although some things in Tales of the TMNT volume 2 makes things complicated. But, that's long running comics for ya, things will clash at times.

[CyberCubed]

Why do you keep bringing up the Volume 1 guest issues? Almost all of them can be considered canon aside from the wacky issues or Soul's Winter which is just an alternate universe.

I consider most of the Vol. 1 guest issues canon. They all fit in with Mirage quite easily besides the parody/wacky issues.

[mrmaczaps]

I don't even understand the point of the discussion.
Mini series and one shots are usually part of an ongoing volume because they usually are subtitled in some form that makes them distinct.
DW series was like TMNTA, even though I don't believe it was actually titled anything more than TMNT.

Let IDW call their run volume one and if they start over the numbering, that's IDW volume two. Easy as store bought pie.

[rwg22]

To my fellow TMNT fans Mr. Jim Lawson gave me his okay to make prints of his drawing. I'm not looking to sell a bunch for large profits but I will need to cover my costs of materials and time. If you are seriously interested in a print let me know. You can email me at [email protected]

[rwg22]

Originally Posted by Xav

So what did you tell him to draw? Like how much of it is your idea and how much is his?

To answer your question, the only input I had was the addition of the cat for Mikey, everything else was Mr. Lawson. I felt he was the only man who should draw the last scene.

[funatic]

Originally Posted by rwg22

To answer your question, the only input I had was the addition of the cat for Mikey,

Nice touch!

[Peter Palmer]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Why do you keep bringing up the Volume 1 guest issues? Almost all of them can be considered canon aside from the wacky issues or Soul's Winter which is just an alternate universe.

I consider most of the Vol. 1 guest issues canon. They all fit in with Mirage quite easily besides the parody/wacky issues.

I bring it up because you and others have mentioned that the volumes are based on continuity. Volume 1 proves that this isn't the case. It doesn't matter if only 1 issue is non canon or if all 62 of them are non canon...if ANY of them are outside the continuity, it warrants at least an exception to the rule you proposed if not discrediting it altogether.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Not really, as the Archie comic was called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Adventures".

This topic have been discussed before.

Why the Comic Strips, Dreamwave and the IDW comic isn't labeled as volumes despite sharing the same name. They don't share the same continuity with the Mirage books, albeit that isn't neccessary to be a part of a collection of volumes, they aren't a part of the Mirage Comics collection.

The canon of Volume 3 is very wiffy waffy, but it is following the canon of the previous volumes (of the stories that is considered canon). And, Volume 4 starts well within the time period that Volume 3 could have happened (since the turtles' injuries healed up at the end of volume 3) and there aren't too much stuff in Volume 4, although some things in Tales of the TMNT volume 2 makes things complicated. But, that's long running comics for ya, things will clash at times.

What a thoughtful, well-reasoned post. Thank you. I always appreciate posts that come from a place of cool logic rather than passionate irrationality (as often happens on chat forums).

It's been a few years since I read to the end of Image's run. By the end of the run, Donatello was a cyborg, Leonardo lost a hand, and Raphael's face was horribly scarred. This transitioned straight into volume 4. At that point, it was pretty clear that Laird didn't see Image series as canon. What was the general fan reasoning for all the turtles to be back to normal in volume 4? Was it that Image wasn't canon or that they all just "healed up" as they did in Andrew's comic?

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Peter Palmer

It's been a few years since I read to the end of Image's run. By the end of the run, Donatello was a cyborg, Leonardo lost a hand, and Raphael's face was horribly scarred. This transitioned straight into volume 4. At that point, it was pretty clear that Laird didn't see Image series as canon. What was the general fan reasoning for all the turtles to be back to normal in volume 4? Was it that Image wasn't canon or that they all just "healed up" as they did in Andrew's comic?

Yeah, the Vol. 3 comic ends unresolved with the scarrings and injuries, as well as other plot points like Lady Shredder, since the comic was canceled before it was done.

Adrew worked along with the writers of Vol 3 to wrap up the Image era as it was intended (with a few plot tweaks to fit a 2 issue release iirc). So the Turtles was officially meant to heal up their wounds. So it's really up to the reader if Vol. 3 is canon or not. And even though Laird have voiced his lack of satisfaction of the Image run, he still chose to call the 2001 comic Volume 4 (although the official comic title is TMNT and not Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles). And Vol. 4 do start well after the Image events.

Personally, I see Vol. 3 as canon, or at least the cliff notes of the run as soemthing that have happened to the Turtles. If I remember correctly, the Turtles might have met the Youngbloods since all comics in Image at the time was in the same universe, and I'll never see that crossover as canon

[zaktheneutrino]

After reading through everyone's comments, I clearly need to re-read volume 4. I honestly forgot about a lot of events that have occurred up to this point.

As for the commission goes, I love it! Maybe it is because I really, really want some closure in regards to volume 4. Mikey's children, Klunk JR and the Casey/Karai or Casey/April tease are all great ideas.

I am not sure what to think of Splinter. Could both Splinters have actually played key roles in the turtles' lives? My first thought is "The Prestige" with the twins each taking the role of the father/husband. Maybe the real Splinter had a secret in the Battle Nexus that he didn't want the TMNT to know about and had to leave Earth frequently? I do feel like this would have to be a great story in order for this scenario to go over well in my mind. I do have to admit, Splinter does look great as a grandfather though!!

In my opinion, as much as I would love more vol. 4 issues and a vol. 5, I think this series could easily be wrapped up like others have said in a Tales of the TMNT volume 3. Depending on whether you want to look at vol. 4 ending in May of 09 or May of 2014, would be the only issue. Give Jim the green light to write us a 12-15 issue Tales of the TMNT volume 3 explaining what has happened in the past 5 years or the past year, depending on what date you want to go by.

[John Pannozzi]

Wasn't it revealed in Sons of the Silent Age that the Turtles are sterile, and unable to reproduce? Mikey having kids would betray that story.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by John Pannozzi

Wasn't it revealed in Sons of the Silent Age that the Turtles are sterile, and unable to reproduce? Mikey having kids would betray that story.

I don't remember anything about them being sterile. Its just that April realized the Turtles were the last of their kind and there was no female to reproduce with, same for the fish people when the last female fish woman died.

The concept of the Turtles mating with aliens obviously never came up till Volume 4.

[Peter Palmer]

Originally Posted by John Pannozzi

Wasn't it revealed in Sons of the Silent Age that the Turtles are sterile, and unable to reproduce? Mikey having kids would betray that story.

I recently read that story again. What I took from it is not that the turtles are sterile, rather they are the only specimens of their particular species and as such their chances of reproducing are slim to none.

[John Pannozzi]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Personally, I see Vol. 3 as canon, or at least the cliff notes of the run as soemthing that have happened to the Turtles. If I remember correctly, the Turtles might have met the Youngbloods since all comics in Image at the time was in the same universe, and I'll never see that crossover as canon

Well, The Turtles did appear in Savage Dragon #41, which also featured an appearance by a Liefeld-owned character named Kaboom.

There's also Shattered Image #2, which features both the Turtles and some of Youngblood (though the Turtles only appear for a single panel along with Jim Lee's character Grifter, so no interactions there), but Erik Larsen doesn't consider it canon to his Savage Dragon continuity, so I don't we should consider part of the Mirage/Image TMNT continuity, either.

Funny that in a very early issue of Youngblood, Badrock mentioned the Turtles.

[rwg22]

Alright everyone, I've gone to the post office to find the best and safest deal of shipping. I talked with TMNT artist Steve Lavigne, and he suggested a specific type of paper at Staples that is sturdy and thick so it will both last and be strong enough if you decide you want it colored. Therefor to cover all the costs the prints will $30 total, including shipping within the USA, if you are interested please email me at [email protected] for confirmation and PayPal instructions. To be truthful I was hoping to keep the cost closer to $20 but the printing cost was more than I expected. Please contact me by Monday night, I'm planning on printing and shipping by this coming weekend.

[TMNachoT]

Is for any chance, that draw end up as part of volume 4, i will be more than happy, i mean, tales # 69 has a really sad future for the turtles and the other characters.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by Jester

"Friends" of Jim Lawson might have read this recent posting on his Facebook about a commission he recently completed, "The Last Scene of TMNT Vol 4."
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...42364701_o.jpg
In the posting he said this about the piece:


So, what do you all think? Do you like these ideas for character development at the end of Vol 4. What would you like to see happen in a hypothetical Vol 5? Do you think it's be interesting to see Lawson work with Eastman on Vol 5, much like Vol 4 was Jim and Peter's project?

now THIS is probably one of the MOST beautiful things i've seen in a LONG time!!! ^__^

rwg22 are you still able to get prints of this made?
what size are the prints? thanks!