Do you think Leo is turning into a Marty Stu?

[CyberCubed]

I wish you guys would take this stuff to tumblr so I didn't have to see it.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I wish you guys would take this stuff to tumblr so I didn't have to see it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Cubed, I'm not even ON tumblr. Don't get the purpose of it, honestly. Same with Pinterest, Twitter, etc.... Not enough hours in the day to wast on that stuff. Plus, you're more entertaining, LOL!

[Leo656]

Wow.

Hey, has anybody who's actually... I'unno... ever earned one dime off their writing... ever made it a point to talk about "tropes" or "Mary Sues"? Or is that all just some Internet Genius-speak, from people who can tell professionals how to do their jobs as writers but have nothing to speak of to show from their own "work"?

Just curious. Pretty sure it's the latter, though.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

No idea, Leo. I occasionally discuss the tropes and Sue-isms of various franchises, but I HAVE written quite a bit (not PAID for it, but....) so I at least have a frame of reference to work from, and understand what goes INTO writing. Most people really just- don't. It's not as if the stories and characters come out on the page with no effort- there is a LOT of thought and work that goes into creating something that other people will see. Characters may seem like a "self-insert" (And often are, no matter WHO the writer is. Even King has done it. So did Dickens. And SOOO many others.) BUUUT there's usually a good reason why a character is they way they are- either it fits into the story and serves a purpose, or the story itself serves to explain why the character is that way. Just labeling a character with the title of Sue reduces them down to a simple formula, and MOST characters are NOT that simple. Unless the writer isn't doing their job right.

Tropes are really nothing more than common concepts and themes found in nearly all fictional works, both movies, TV, and books or comics. It's not "new", it's just that there's never really been a name for it until the internet age. A trope can be anything from taking an established character's traits and amplifying them, to time-travel stories, to the "common man" who becomes a "Chosen one", and- well, just about anything you can think of in storytelling. It's just a way of identifying the themes and ideas that were used in the work.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Wow.

Hey, has anybody who's actually... I'unno... ever earned one dime off their writing... ever made it a point to talk about "tropes" or "Mary Sues"? Or is that all just some Internet Genius-speak, from people who can tell professionals how to do their jobs as writers but have nothing to speak of to show from their own "work"?

Just curious. Pretty sure it's the latter, though.

Oh it's most definitely the latter.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I wish you guys would take this stuff to tumblr so I didn't have to see it.

I'm so sorry you're being forced to view every thread and read every post against your will.

Although the "right on the internet" forum trope is being run into the ground. About ten feet deep by now.



Wish I had more of a mind for writing actiony/adventurey stuff... what might be fun is having a character who is a total 120% "Mary Sue/Marty Stu" from the onset, but the underlying theme is the gradual disintegrating of the perfect, powerful epicness they once enjoyed.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I'm so sorry you're being forced to view every thread and read every post against your will.

Although the "right on the internet" forum trope is being run into the ground. About ten feet deep by now.



Wish I had more of a mind for writing actiony/adventurey stuff... what might be fun is having a character who is a total 120% "Mary Sue/Marty Stu" from the onset, but the underlying theme is the gradual disintegrating of the perfect, powerful epicness they once enjoyed.

You might LOVE my fan-fiction, if that's the case.

[Sahtori]

Dude, ... I do got a question though, but I don't think it fits in this topic. How does one think like the turtles. While we have different seasons/movies.

As for Leo and his brothers making it the TMNT

[senpai]

I think Leo's kinda OP; not a "Marty Stu" though. But he's still awesomesauce.

[srmff]

Originally Posted by senpai

I think Leo's kinda OP; not a "Marty Stu" though. But he's still awesomesauce.

I wouldn't say he's OP. He still can't defeat the Shredder and he only defeated Splinter because he was injured.

The praising at the end didn't bother me because Leo was disheartened that he failed to save Karai and they were making him feel better. It reminded me of the end of Metalhead when Splinter was praising Donnie to cheer him up. It worked in both cases as we see Leo and Donnie smile.

[Tarris Vaal]

It may just be set up as well. Its not uncommon for 'lead' characters to have a build up of power and a perception of invincibility before having the rug pulled out from under them. Luke and Anakin are both good examples of this.

It wouldn't be unlikely that we might be seeing an early development of Leo suffering from pride later down the line - with potentially severe consequences. We've already had similar plot threads occur before (season 2's first episode was a fairly blatant one).

I'm not fond of the Mary sue trope personally, I find its a little simplistic to slam characters with that title, and I think its far too early to be looking at Leo like that anyway. 1 minor healing power does not make him a bland character. He's proven himself a good fighter and a good leader - definitely a 'main' character in the context of the show recently, but that hasn't been the case throughout the season.

I'm starting to think I'll go and hide before the Raph fans start emerging...

[Luckyday]

Again I don't think Leo is turning into a Marty Sue either, or whatever correct term, but I strongly disagree with the idea of making him the main character of the show. That's more of a personal opinion of mine with the reasons that I already mentioned of characters acting differently then when the story was about four main characters instead of just one main character with a supporting cast of those three other guys giving just one liners and are there to make the main character look deep in comparison.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

It may just be set up as well. Its not uncommon for 'lead' characters to have a build up of power and a perception of invincibility before having the rug pulled out from under them. Luke and Anakin are both good examples of this.

It wouldn't be unlikely that we might be seeing an early development of Leo suffering from pride later down the line - with potentially severe consequences. We've already had similar plot threads occur before (season 2's first episode was a fairly blatant one).

I'm not fond of the Mary sue trope personally, I find its a little simplistic to slam characters with that title, and I think its far too early to be looking at Leo like that anyway. 1 minor healing power does not make him a bland character. He's proven himself a good fighter and a good leader - definitely a 'main' character in the context of the show recently, but that hasn't been the case throughout the season.

I'm starting to think I'll go and hide before the Raph fans start emerging...

Being teenagers they are bound to have moments of over confidence. And even these moments are patterned as far as consequence.

The Gauntlet- Turtles are over confident in their wins and in the end they encounter an enemy they were not ready for.

Pulverizer Returns- Over confident again, don't pay attention to lesson of learning how to use different weapons (and missing a good opportunity to teach each other), lose said weapons on account of that. (pulverizer would have mutated regardless)

Mutation Situation-Over confident again and riding their own win at the defeat of the Kraang and supposed defeat of the Shredder. They lose an ally after one of her family members are mutated because of them.

Invasion can sort of count as over confidence on Leo's part since he chooses to go face Shredder on his own.

But the next time the lot of them are over confident the price would be nearly losing if not the loss of one of their own.

[Rooish]

Werecat, upon reading this thread I must say that knowing nothing about you from before, you come across as a deranged, explosive, abusive conversationalist who should perhaps look up the definition of "psychosis" as it doesn't mean what you think it does anymore.

I was feeling like Leo was becoming a Marty Stu, but Purple Kraken posted a topic and a poll asking people if they thought Leo was a Marty Stu. Presumably this should allow people the opportunity to disagree, but when anyone has you've told them there is no way they can sanely disagree given the evidence and should examine if they have narcissism or "psychosis". Holy crap, that is... a pretty crazy way of responding to people right there.

The TMNT should all be equally important characters, but in practice the heart of the stories tend to fall on Leo and Raph, so I believe that they are main characters more than the other two. Leo more so, because he's the leader and straight man and it's easy to have him carry the story while the other Turtles have bigger personalities to compensate. I think it's okay if Leo is the best fighter, favourite son and most spiritually inclined. This gives Raph more fuel for his anger. Mikey has enough personality to make up for shortcomings and Don has his own skills. So I'd rather Leo not become more of a Marty Stu, but he can be a bit more powerful than the others.

[Werecat]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Werecat, upon reading this thread I must say that knowing nothing about you from before, you come across as a deranged, explosive, abusive conversationalist who should perhaps look up the definition of "psychosis" as it doesn't mean what you think it does anymore.

I was feeling like Leo was becoming a Marty Stu, but Purple Kraken posted a topic and a poll asking people if they thought Leo was a Marty Stu. Presumably this should allow people the opportunity to disagree, but when anyone has you've told them there is no way they can sanely disagree given the evidence and should examine if they have narcissism or "psychosis". Holy crap, that is... a pretty crazy way of responding to people right there.

The TMNT should all be equally important characters, but in practice the heart of the stories tend to fall on Leo and Raph, so I believe that they are main characters more than the other two. Leo more so, because he's the leader and straight man and it's easy to have him carry the story while the other Turtles have bigger personalities to compensate. I think it's okay if Leo is the best fighter, favourite son and most spiritually inclined. This gives Raph more fuel for his anger. Mikey has enough personality to make up for shortcomings and Don has his own skills. So I'd rather Leo not become more of a Marty Stu, but he can be a bit more powerful than the others.

Are you assuming that people around here are sane? At all. That is a total lie if you say yes. You do not know my life, I have studied psychology and various science topics on my own time and academically. Taking the self initiation to enlighten myself on more psychology and science is already a step ahead of a person like you. I highly doubt you understand the definition of psychosis or Marty stu, since the definition is nowhere near covered in your comment. If you did know you could have easily covered it...but you didn't. Eh, seems like you have a symptom of a terrible disease called being a meaner. (Ha, no one will get that reference.)

Also it is proper manners to allow people to debate in peace without you aggravating one side due to your inability to accurately comprehend the current situation. Since when did a debate, rebuttal, and heated conversation become illegal? Your anti-freedom of speech is sickening.

Allow me to label, you, you stoopid silly. Why don't you go live in your loghouse since you disdain innovation and freedom and human rights!
/grabs my maple syrup and KFC bucket and scoffs!

[Leo656]

My Goodness.

[Meliwen]

Originally Posted by Rooish

The TMNT should all be equally important characters, but in practice the heart of the stories tend to fall on Leo and Raph, so I believe that they are main characters more than the other two. Leo more so, because he's the leader and straight man and it's easy to have him carry the story while the other Turtles have bigger personalities to compensate. I think it's okay if Leo is the best fighter, favourite son and most spiritually inclined. This gives Raph more fuel for his anger. Mikey has enough personality to make up for shortcomings and Don has his own skills. So I'd rather Leo not become more of a Marty Stu, but he can be a bit more powerful than the others.

I think it's okay if Leo is specifically favourite son and best at everything if it's addressed correctly in the show, and gives the others, like Raph, a chance to use that to further their own characterization. If the writers are tired of doing another Raph centered anger episode, they could easily write something about his self-esteem. When these qualities of Leo's aren't specifically addressed in the show and provide substance to something other than a super Leo, that's when those traits become annoying to me. Otherwise having a character who's the best at spiritual things, best fighter, jack of all trades, most favourite son, the leader, and best strategist just really seems like too much for one character in a team where all members should be equally important.

As a side note, I've always thought Raph and Leo were at least equal in terms of fighting ability in this show, if not a slight edge to Raph.

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by Werecat

Are you assuming that people around here are sane? At all. That is a total lie if you say yes.

No, I definitely never said that.

Originally Posted by Werecat

You do not know my life, I have studied psychology and various science topics on my own time and academically. Taking the self initiation to enlighten myself on more psychology and science is already a step ahead of a person like you.

I majored in Psychology in university and have indeed studied the actual phenomenon of psychosis extensively. I didn't say anything about your life, I said you were acting abusive to people on the forum and were misusing the term "psychosis."

Originally Posted by Werecat

I highly doubt you understand the definition of psychosis or Marty stu, since the definition is nowhere near covered in your comment. If you did know you could have easily covered it...but you didn't. Eh, seems like you have a symptom of a terrible disease called being a meaner.

Uh, I actually agreed that Leo was at risk of becoming a Marty Stu. If you don't want me to agree with you, I'm not sure exactly what you want from people as you call those who disagree "narcissists" and unable to understand abstract thought.

Originally Posted by Werecat

Also it is proper manners to allow people to debate in peace without you aggravating one side due to your inability to accurately comprehend the current situation.

It was not a peaceful debate, mostly because of you.

Originally Posted by Werecat

Allow me to label, you, you stoopid silly. Why don't you go live in your loghouse since you disdain innovation and freedom and human rights!

What? A loghouse?

Originally Posted by Meliwen

I think it's okay if Leo is specifically favourite son and best at everything if it's addressed correctly in the show, and gives the others, like Raph, a chance to use that to further their own characterization. If the writers are tired of doing another Raph centered anger episode, they could easily write something about his self-esteem. When these qualities of Leo's aren't specifically addressed in the show and provide substance to something other than a super Leo, that's when those traits become annoying to me. Otherwise having a character who's the best at spiritual things, best fighter, jack of all trades, most favourite son, the leader, and best strategist just really seems like too much for one character in a team where all members should be equally important.

As a side note, I've always thought Raph and Leo were at least equal in terms of fighting ability in this show, if not a slight edge to Raph.

Totally agreed.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Leo656

My Goodness.

Yeah, that about covers it.