The Best Wrestler of All Time

[That Matt Guy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Ric Flair was WCW's top star for most of his career. Aside from him, I'd say Sting deserved to be on the list.

Yes Sting for sure, seeing how he is the only major WCW star to never set foot in a WWF ring. And of course, Disco Inferno and El Dandy.

[malignant]

see..now im going to give leo56his props...and now Believe that hogan belongs at the top of the list...close to my opinions...why?...cause when this thread started..it was nothing but a bunch of ignorant people....no offense intended...mentioning their favs..but not basing it on facts or realistic reasons why theyre the best. Leo56 came in and did that.....

and now hes shut me up...=]

for whoever mentioned Van hammer?..haha..thats exactly what im refering to..

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by TMNTGUY4EVER

well i think if were talkin best mat ability its got to be hogan but for strenght i have to say andre the giant but i think all around hogan is the best wrestler of all time. I think there should be more names on that such as mankind taker austin rock ect

For best mat ability, my pick is Bret Hart. After that, I would mention guys like Shawn Michaels and Dean Malenko and Kurt Angle and Owen Hart and Ric Flair and Chris Jericho.

"I said, 'Hell, they can't do it without the Nature Boy!' That's why I'm back." - Ric Flair, to Sting, upon returning to WCW in September, 1999

[That Matt Guy]

Originally Posted by malignant

for whoever mentioned Van hammer?..haha..thats exactly what im refering to..

That was just a joke, pal.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by malignant

see..now im going to give leo56his props...and now Believe that hogan belongs at the top of the list...close to my opinions...why?...cause when this thread started..it was nothing but a bunch of ignorant people....no offense intended...mentioning their favs..but not basing it on facts or realistic reasons why theyre the best. Leo56 came in and did that.....

and now hes shut me up...=]

Bunch of ignorant people? No, I'm not offended. I don't get angry. But I am definitely one person who isn't ignorant when it comes to wrestling. Even though I don't watch it as much as I used to, I still know what's going on. I know my history.

I can tell you right now that Leo656 and I aren't ignorant. Not when it comes to wrestling.

But, again, no offense taken.

"What a manuever that was!" - Gorilla Monsoon, one of the greatest WWF broadcasters ever.

[Leo656]

As far as Savage being lost in the shuffle in the nWo, I feel obligated to point out that while Hogan (and I do love the guy, but I'm not afraid to criticize him) was off in Hollywood making movies and going six months without defending the WCW Title, Savage was headlining Pay-Per-Views all by himself. For about 4 months in 1997, DDP/Savage was WCW's top feud that headlined the shows, not Hogan - anyone. And the Savage/DDP matches were great, old-school brawls the likes of which fans hadn't seen in years, and proved you CAN have a good, brutal match without barb wire, fire, or throwing someone off a scaffold/cage.

Savage NEVER got lost in the shuffle... that's why the Wolfpac split happened. Savage, not Nash, was the first nWo member to break away from Hogan, entirely because he refused to blend into the background. If anything, the nWo Wolfpac split was what hurt him, because not only did he suffer an injury, but he was on the same team as f*cking Konnan.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Leo656

If anything, the nWo Wolfpac split was what hurt him, because not only did he suffer an injury, but he was on the same team as f*cking Konnan.

I remember thinking the same thing when the nWo Wolfpac were together. The only reason Konnan was over was because he was rubbing shoulders with guys like Savage, Sting and Lex Luger.

As soon as that group disbanded, so did Konnan's career. WCW considered putting him in the Filthy Animals as a career step-up? Please. The Filthy Animals were dead on arrival.

Konnan: "Oh la lay!"
Me: What'd he say?"

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Leo656

As far as Savage being lost in the shuffle in the nWo, I feel obligated to point out that while Hogan (and I do love the guy, but I'm not afraid to criticize him) was off in Hollywood making movies and going six months without defending the WCW Title, Savage was headlining Pay-Per-Views all by himself. For about 4 months in 1997, DDP/Savage was WCW's top feud that headlined the shows, not Hogan - anyone. And the Savage/DDP matches were great, old-school brawls the likes of which fans hadn't seen in years, and proved you CAN have a good, brutal match without barb wire, fire, or throwing someone off a scaffold/cage.

Diamond Dallas Page was a prime example of a guy who had to work his tail off to get where he was. If anybody earned their place in pro wrestling, it was him. And I don't think it hurt that he had a gorgeous wife in Kimberly, either.

I so wanted the match between her and David Flair at Mayhem 1999 to go somewhere. She was looking very fine.

And the comment about barb wire, fire and throwing someone off a scaffold. That's why Mick Foley didn't make the list. He's tough as hell, and I respect the heck out of him, but what he did wasn't wrestling. Wrestling is two guys exchanging holds, trying to outdo each other.

Clubbing guys over the head with a chair isn't wrestling. Any dingbat on the street can do that.

"Feel . . . the . . . BANG!" - Diamond Dallas Page

[Leo656]

I admire DDP for working hard to improve. He was God-Awful when he started out... and he admits as much. But he worked hard, learned the basics, picked up possibly the best finisher EVER in the Diamond Cutter ("Ya NEVER see it comin'!"), and went on to have great matches with everyone from Sting, Savage, Eddy Guerrero, Raven, Chris Benoit, and even Goldberg in a match that a lot of critics expected to be awful.

DDP's matches with Savage were some of my favorites in WCW... then his feud with Raven was more of the same classic brutality (he hit Raven with a VCR, for god's sake!), and his matches with Benoit in between proved that he could wrestle as well as brawl.

DDP isn't one of the best ever, but he's definitely one of my favorites and a true credit to wrestling.

[That Matt Guy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

then his feud with Raven was more of the same classic brutality (he hit Raven with a VCR, for god's sake!)

I remember that. There was also a time when DDP came out dressed as La Parka and wrestled Raven.

EDIT: Or maybe it was Savage, and not raven.

[Fugitoid Jones]

I had to say Hogan, but I don't have to say why, because it's been mentioned several thousands times already by everyone else who voted Hogan. I'm just glad no one said the Rock, cause he has no talent whatsoever. Kurt Angle is on his way to becoming one of the greats as well. Not only can the man wrestle extremely well, but he's amazingly funny on the mic.

[GK Punk]

Well for me personally, I have trouble picking between Hogan, Flair and Bret Hart. Each for their own reasons, of course... Leo's argument on why hogan diserves to be considered the best, I have to back up fully. But Leo knows how I feel on hogan

[Leo656]

Indeed I do. You're pregnant with his child. Welcome back, big fella.

And yeah Matt, it was Savage DDP was feuding with when he dressed up like La Parka. I wondered how La Parka suddenly grew 3 inches, but then again he was always pretty big for a Luchador.

[XERO]

Originally Posted by Leo656

"Hogan = Overrated"
So's your opinion. When you get paid 5 million bucks a year to do ANYthing, then you can call people overrated.

Does anyone know how Hogan came onto the scene?! (Cracks knuckles) Ah, gather 'round my son, and I shall tell you a tale, one that began in sunny Florida back in the mid-1970s...

Terry Bollea was a lifelong wrestling fan. He was, through all of high school and for some time after, bass player in several rock and roll bands. His bands played at several clubs in the Tampa area, many of which were frequented by some of the local wrestlers. So he knew people. Eventually, he got it into his head that he might make some money as a wrestler. He was recommended to pro wrestler and trainer Hiro Matsuda, known as one of the toughest trainers around at that point. Hogan's first day was basically as follows: The trainers had him run drills until he was ready to throw up, then Matsuda dragged him into the ring and snapped his ankle.

Back then, not just anybody could come off the street and be a wrestler. There was no garbage like "Tough Enough". You had to be respected by the other wrestlers if you even wanted to have a shot, and to earn their respect you had to be tough. Matsuda wanted to see how dedicated Terry was. Terry came back once his ankle healed, earning him the respect of his trainers, but things didn't get much easier. For the next six months, Hogan was barely allowed one offensive move as the trainers put him in submission hold after submission hold. The way they taught back then was "If a guy leaves his arm open, break it. If you get a guy in a headlock, put the bone of your wrist into his temple and squeeze..." In short, they taught people how to hurt people *for real*. For a year, all Hogan learned was how to break bones and gouge eyes. Then, when they thought he was "ready", they let him in that wrestling was staged. The point of their training him the way they did was two-fold. First off, they wanted him to be able to handle himself in any situation in the ring, and secondly, they wanted him to be so unstoppable physically that nobody could pin him unless he wanted them to.

Once his training was finished, Hogan bounced around several territories and ended up in Memphis as Terry Boulder. Back then, "The Incredible Hulk" tv show with Lou Ferrigno was popular, and someone who saw Hogan commented that he "looked bigger than The Hulk". So he became Terry "The Hulk" Boulder. After a while in Memphis and a few trips to Japan, he eventually ended up in the WWF, then owned by Vince McMahon Sr., who gave him the name Hulk Hogan. He hung around for about a year in 1980 as a heel (bad guy) and had a couple big feuds with Andre the Giant and Bob Backlund. He left the WWF when he got a call to be in Rocky 3. McMahon didn't want Hogan to take the role, but Hogan was insistent, so McMahon fired him. Hogan played Thunderlips in Rocky 3 and became pretty much a celebrity right there.

As with any big movie, Rocky 3 created quite a buzz, and a lot of that Buzz was on Hogan. His name reached the ear of Verne Gagne in Minnesota, owner of the AWA. He brought Hogan in as a face (good guy) and had him feud with Nick Bockwinkle over the AWA Title. The AWA was where "Hulkamania" and all its catchphrases and t-shirts started, they just didn't have a logo yet as Hogan made the shirts himself. Hogan became more and more popular, especially after Rocky 3 came out, but he never ended up with the Title. Politics in wrestling were a big deal back then, and Gagne wanted his son Greg (who was not very talented) to win the Title. Hogan got fed up with it, and when he got an offer from Vince McMahon Jr. to return to the WWF in 1983, he took it. In his final AWA match, he appeared to beat Bockwinkle for the belt, only to have the desicion reversed on a bogus technicality. The fans in the arena rioted.

Hogan took another trip to Japan in 1983 before he went back to the WWF and took part in the first ever International Wrestling Grand Prix Tournament. Hogan was already much-loved in Japan and had recorded an album there. The IWGP Title is basically Japan's version of the World Title, and in fact is more respected throughout the world than the WWF/WWE World Title. Hogan himself has said on many occasions (most notably in 1993, when his words got him in trouble with Vince) that the IWGP Title is the "Real World's Title" and that the WWF Title is "a toy." Hogan beat the legendary Antonio Inoki in the finals, knocking him out of the ring and unconscious with the Axe Bomber to become the first ever IWGP Champion.

After that, he went back to the WWF and beat The Iron Sheik on January 24, 1984 at Madison Square Garden to become the WWF Champion, and the rest is pretty much history.

Anything else you'd like to know?

Another mystery solved! Thanks, Leo!

[Reznorite420]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I respect Mick Foley, but I really don't think he honestly comes anywhere close to being one of the "greatest wrestlers of all time". He even goes into detail in his books about how he was never particularly talented, he just had a high threshold for pain. His biggest contribution to wrestling was falling off the Cell and almost getting killed, and retiring at 33 with brain damage.

If you call that being one of the greatest wrestlers ever, that's your opinion

That's what MADE him a legend. Being the king of Hardcore, man!

[Leo656]

And hardcore wrestling is basically an oxymoron.

It's funny, I read an interview with Mick Foley that was done just yesterday where he said hardcore wrestling isn't enough to carry on a show by itself, and he's right. Being able to take more chairshots to the head than anyone else doesn't make you a legend, it makes you a sadist, and quite frankly not too bright.

As much as I respect Foley for willing to take the risks he did, I can't celebrate him as a legend for it. That's like saying Custer is a legend and a great general because he got scalped by the indians at Little Big Horn.

Though the thought of Custer's troops chanting "HE'S HARDCORE! HE'S HARDCORE!" as he was getting scalped is pretty funny.

At the same time, I also resent Foley's influence a little bit because thanks to him, some dumb kid in Assclown, Idaho is jumping off his roof and hitting another kid in the head with a flourescent light tube and dropping him into a sandbox full of broken glass, because the kid saw how Foley got to the WWF after jumping off his roof and thinks that he can be a pro wrestler the same way.

Even Foley thinks these kids are idiots, but you have to know that they're following his lead.

[Psycrow]

Bret "the Hitman" Hart. He's the best there ever was, the best there ever is, and the best there ever will be!!

[cqb101]

Originally Posted by Matthew138

That was just a joke, pal.

I don't think he knows what a joke is.

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Fugitoid Jones

I had to say Hogan, but I don't have to say why, because it's been mentioned several thousands times already by everyone else who voted Hogan. I'm just glad no one said the Rock, cause he has no talent whatsoever. Kurt Angle is on his way to becoming one of the greats as well. Not only can the man wrestle extremely well, but he's amazingly funny on the mic.

What do you have against The Rock? I'm not a huge fan of his, but I don't understand what people have against this guy.

He's charasmatic, he's got a million dollar smile, his movies made more in one weekend than Hogan's have done for 10 years (sorry Leo656), and he's certainly entertaining on the microphone.

He may not know much in the way of actual wrestling (not many wrestlers do anymore), but any lack in his actual wrestling skills is made up for in charisma.

"If you smell what The Rock is cookin'!" - The Rock

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Psycrow

Bret "the Hitman" Hart. He's the best there ever was, the best there ever is, and the best there ever will be!!

This guy knows what he's talking about. (It's a smiley face with the Hitman shades!)

Okay, not really.

"The water is under the bridge, and we are together!" - Bret Hart, referring to Owen Hart, on January 1, 1994.