Star Wars Episode 7

[Blackeyedsonic]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Lol good for you. No one cares.

Lol wrong I care and that's someone, just wanted to get my view out there so no need to attack it i never said anything against those who do like it

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Lol good for you. No one cares.

There's a strong case in his defence for not wishing to be part of a corporate giant's consumption of a former independent franchise, over saturating it and depriving it of it's charm and verisimilitude in favour of cynical nostalgia grabbing thrills. They've lucked out for now, but it's only the start.

You're not the measuring stick of who does and who doesn't care, and guess what? You never will amount to much else either with that attitude to others.

[chrisdude]

Remember when George Lucas said he didn't work with Disney on VII because they were set on making the movie "for the fans?"
Makes sense, now.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by Krutch

SPOILERS

Rey was too perfect for my liking; she’s all the best qualities of Luke and Han rolled into one without either of their flaws. She can figure out the Falcon better than Han can, is self-suffiicient(can take out two bounty hunters trying to kidnap her by herself), goes from not believing the force even exists to being able to resist(and reverse!) mind probing, mind control, have premonitions, and win a lightsaber fight with Luke’s former understudy. Like… I guess she’s just better than everyone else? Like, she seems as efficient as Luke was at the end of Return of the Jedi.

Kylo Ren, on the other hand, I feel like I don’t know enough about to warrant him killing Han. All I know about him is he was Luke’s understudy and he’s a bit conflicted about being on the darkside. Otherwise, I have no idea who he is or what his motivations are. Why is he so tempted in the dark side? Why does he hold a grudge against Han and Leia? What happened between him and Luke? What does Supreme Overlord have to offer him? I don’t know **** about him! Then he kills Han to fully embrace the darkside, then immediately proceeds to lose a fight with someone who’s never swung a sabre before (yes, he was hurt, but it really diminishes Han’s death when it doesn’t help him).

I can't say I share your opinion on either character.

With Rey, we see her being abandoned on a harsh planet at a young age. She has very clearly needed to fend for herself her entire life and has learned to scavenge (and thus learn the inner-workings of) ships and protect herself. Why shouldn't she be able to understand the technical aspects of the Falcon or defend herself from a couple scrubs? Especially considering they seemed more intent on capturing BB-8 than anything else.

And you're jumping to conclusions regarding everything to do with her force sensitivity and her moments with Kylo Ren. In the interrogation scene it's pretty damn clear Kylo Ren is at odds with himself, she even says he's scared. We know the Force takes concentration and conviction to use and clearly Ren has neither. The mind trick was a little strange, but again, we don't actually know anything of her past. Considering the whole lightsaber scene, I think we can assume she is connected in some way with the Skywalker family. How do we not know she wasn't already being trained in the Force as a child before she was abandoned on Jakku when Luke went into hiding? And I think we need to let go of this notion that using a Lightsaber is somehow this learned skill along the lines of actual Force usage, because it has always been a silly notion. She clearly knows how to use a melee weapon, so her fighting and beating an injured and emotionally unstable opponent isn't impossible. Even Finn put up a fight as someone with (presumably) zero force sensitivity or training. We also have no idea how long Kylo Ren trained with Luke or how long he's been lost to Snoke and the First Order. We can assume it wasn't long enough to be trained properly; his constant psychotic outbursts and the fact that Snoke orders him to return and complete his training are both clear signs of that fact.

As far as Kylo Ren goes, it's clear they don't want to let the cat out of the bag on that full story yet and I don't think they should have just to try and justify what he did a bit more. His actions were clearly meant to show you that this kid is legit f*cked. He is what Anakin Skywalker should have been. That moment where he tells Han he's being torn apart is one of the best scenes in the movie, because for the first time you're actually seeing a good representation of a force user dealing with that pull. And you seriously think him losing afterwards diminishes what happened beforehand? Why? Han wasn't exactly fighting, it was pretty clear he both wouldn't and couldn't fight his own son. He was giving Ben the opportunity to make that choice and Kylo Ren was the one who made it. And your problem just seems to be you don't know enough about this character that killed a legacy character and that doesn't seem right to you, rather than any real issues with the character himself. It wasn't a character moment for Han. Han's story was told. It was a character moment for Kylo Ren and coming at it from that perspective it's probably up there with Vader making his ultimate decision to save Luke at the end of Jedi. When it came down to it, in that moment at those crossroads, he made his choice.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Stuff.

Irrelevant. It's drive-by sh*t posting. If you don't care, then don't care. Why come into a thread with the expressed purpose of discussing something you don't care about? He's perfectly capable of having his opinion, and it's totally valid, but the fact that he needs to advertise it is stupid.

[Blackeyedsonic]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Irrelevant. It's drive-by sh*t posting. If you don't care, then don't care. Why come into a thread with the expressed purpose of discussing something you don't care about? He's perfectly capable of having his opinion, and it's totally valid, but the fact that he needs to advertise it is stupid.

You are being a hypocrit you post something that has no Merritt to the thread basicly calling out what I said for no reason last I checked this was to talk about the movie, not to advertise the movie good and bad views both allowed unless it's all irrelevant? Witch is basicly what you stated

[ProactiveMan]

I did find it amusing that Rey lived most of her life, scrapping on a desert planet, yet managed to maintain her fair complexion and perfect teeth. Lol Hollywood.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Dammit, guys, quit arguing about Star Wars!!!!

This is the Technodrome; argue about Ninja Turtles!

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Dammit, guys, quit arguing about Star Wars!!!!

This is the Technodrome; argue about Ninja Turtles!

If youbare going to argue do it the way Shredder and Krang would.

Spoiler:

Luke's voiceover in the first trailer could be the scene filmed in Ireland when he gives the story of the Skywalkers to Rey.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by Blackeyedsonic

You are being a hypocrit you post something that has no Merritt to the thread basicly calling out what I said for no reason last I checked this was to talk about the movie, not to advertise the movie good and bad views both allowed unless it's all irrelevant? Witch is basicly what you stated

Good lord. You didn't even watch it. You came in here to act like you're above it. Good for you! You're anti-anti-hipster. No one cares.

Come back with relevant opinions based on experience and say all the negative sh*t you want. That's good discussion. "I'm above this mass market fanfic, yucko! I haven't seen it though," Is of zero use to anyone.

[Mew]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Dammit, guys, quit arguing about Star Wars!!!!

This is the Technodrome; argue about Ninja Turtles!

Why is there no lightsabers in TMNT!
Why didn't Donatello made R2D2!
Why is there no Yoda in TMNT!

[Blackeyedsonic]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Good lord. You didn't even watch it. You came in here to act like you're above it. Good for you! You're anti-anti-hipster. No one cares.

Come back with relevant opinions based on experience and say all the negative sh*t you want. That's good discussion. "I'm above this mass market fanfic, yucko! I haven't seen it though," Is of zero use to anyone.

Actuly I am informed I just haven't waisted my money and I can say what I think baised on what I know just like everyone did before the movie came out hipster I never once said I was right witch seems to be what you assume

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Dammit, guys, quit arguing about Star Wars!!!!

This is the Technodrome; argue about Ninja Turtles!

If you are going to argue do it the way Shredder and Krang would.

Spoiler:

Luke's voiceover in the first trailer could be the scene filmed in Ireland when he gives the story of the Skywalkers to Rey. It noticeably did not make it into the film but could alude to the 8th episode.

[THGhost]

To whoever said that Rey is a Mary Sue, read this -
http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-s...tar-1749134275

Originally Posted by Blackeyedsonic

I myself refuse to spend any money on a Disney Star Wars it looks more like a fan fic then a Star Wars movie to me honestly and under mines the first three movies

Well, it isn't and it doesn't. So go nuts.

[Krutch]

With Rey, we see her being abandoned on a harsh planet at a young age. She has very clearly needed to fend for herself her entire life and has learned to scavenge (and thus learn the inner-workings of) ships and protect herself. Why shouldn't she be able to understand the technical aspects of the Falcon or defend herself from a couple scrubs?

I'm not arguing it doesn't make sense that she can. My issue with her is she has no flaws. She always has the skill set needed for every scenerio: She's an ace pilot, a competent fighter, a savvy tech, street smart, shows compassion to towards droids, gorgeous, and by the end of the movie, pretty damn force strong. She's too perfect that it releases the tension of any scene she's in. Even when she's tied up in restraints, she resists mind control, turns the table on the main villain, gets the idea that she can force-convince someones mind and walks out the door.

...And I'm not so sure that scavenging and understanding technology really correlate to each other. I can go dumpster diving at junkyards every day and never understand how a car works. I may learn what parts are more valuable, though.

We know the Force takes concentration and conviction to use and clearly Ren has neither.

Actually, he was able to pull the info from Poe no problem. Also was able to stop and hold a blaster shot for minutes while also interrogating someone.

How do we not know she wasn't already being trained in the Force as a child before she was abandoned on Jakku when Luke went into hiding?

Considering she thought Luke Skywalker and the Jedi were all a myth I'm going to guess she was never taught the ways of the force.

And I think we need to let go of this notion that using a Lightsaber is somehow this learned skill along the lines of actual Force usage, because it has always been a silly notion.She clearly knows how to use a melee weapon, so her fighting and beating an injured and emotionally unstable opponent isn't impossible.

I agree. Again, my issue isn't that she can do this stuff, its that she can already do this. Especially against someone who has been trained exclusively on using a lightsaber. By Luke Skywalker himself, I might add.

...And understanding how to use a bo staff is not the same as using a sword.

That moment where he tells Han he's being torn apart is one of the best scenes in the movie, because for the first time you're actually seeing a good representation of a force user dealing with that pull.

Are we? What exactly is he dealing with? What are his motivations for wanting to be on the darkside instead of the light? I understand he's on the fence. I understand he's struggling. But we don't understand why he's struggling. That's pretty damn important to the scene. Does Kylo feel like Han abandoned him when he gave him over to Luke? Did Kylo have any say in the matter? Was he just a bad apple? Maybe Han actually did something absolutely monstrous that completely justifies his resentment? Point is, we don't know, so we can't sympathize either way. For all we know Han never got him the Life Day present he wanted. Who knows?

And you seriously think him losing afterwards diminishes what happened beforehand?

Umm... yes? For dramatic purposes, wouldnt it make much more sense that after severing his link to humanity, he becomes a wrathful sith lord and despite being severely wounded, still almost kills Finn and Rey? And by proximity, wouldn't that give Rey something to strive for next movie? Making sure she doesn't lose the next time? But Rey conquers all, I guess. The Resistance even sends her of all people to go seek out Luke. Umm... alright.

And your problem just seems to be you don't know enough about this character that killed a legacy character and that doesn't seem right to you, rather than any real issues with the character himself.

No, my issues aren't that Han died or even that it didn't feel earned(which it didn't). The way the story has presented the character of Kylo Ren does not generate pathos for the scene. The only reason we really care about him at all is because he's a byproduct of characters we know and love. Theres no poetry in a character who's just a big question mark killing someone we know. Lets break down what we actually know for certain about Kylo Ren...

-He's Han and Leia's son.
-He's chosen to be on the dark side of the force for reasons unknown.
-He's conflicted with his decision to be on the dark side of the force for reasons unknown.
-He has a grudge against Han Solo for reasons unknown.
-Luke trained him and because of some unknown reason, it didn't work out.

And if you're saying its a character moment for Kylo, which I too believe it is, you can add...

-He kills his father to help him embrace his darkside. He felt he had to do this for reasons unknown.

So really, the only thing we have a clear picture of for sure, is that he's Han and Leia's son. Every single other thing is a mystery. I'm not saying this won't be fleshed out in future sequels, which I'm sure it will, but if I'm judging The Force Awakens storytelling, theres zero pathos in a character we know nothing about killing someone who we love for unclear reasons.

The mind trick was a little strange, but again, we don't actually know anything of her past.

I think we can assume she is connected in some way with the Skywalker family.

How do we not know she wasn't already being trained in the Force as a child before she was abandoned on Jakku when Luke went into hiding?

We also have no idea how long Kylo Ren trained with Luke or how long he's been lost to Snoke and the First Order.

We can assume it wasn't long enough to be trained properly.

You see what I'm getting at here?

Again, I'm not trying to bash the movie. I liked it a lot, and plan on seeing it once or twice more before it leaves theatres. But it's far from perfect.

[TigerClaw]

purchased my ticket via fandango to see it tomorrow.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

purchased my ticket via fandango to see it tomorrow.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWiXEoBWIAAvhJe.jpg

Enjoy!!

[Spike Spiegel]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

Remember when George Lucas said he didn't work with Disney on VII because they were set on making the movie "for the fans?"
Makes sense, now.

I really want to know what his ideas were.

In the meantime, I attended a 10:15 am matinee (cost me only $4.29) and had these thoughts:

Spoiler:

-Rey was, as others have mentioned, a total Mary Sue. Maybe they'll tone that down a bit in the sequels...?

-I think either Finn or Poe will end up being a Force user.

-Han's death felt forced in terms of how it was shot.

-Luke was like EPIC SPACE JESUS at the end. Mark Hamill is almost too cool to be doing SW again.

-Hope Finn becomes more than just comic relief.

-I want both Finn and Rey to have enough character development where I don't see them as filling diversity quotas.

-Ditto with Poe (who there wasn't enough of in this film).

The movie was not perfect--part of me is inclined to call it a cynical cash grab--but it was not awful as TPM. Despite my nostalgia for the prequels and their era (I was seven years old back in '99), and also my respect for what this film tried to do, I still think that the original three will always be the best, especially after Disney runs this franchise into the ground.

[JakeSully]

Saw it, the best SW movie since Empire Strikes Back.

JJ is better with SW than ST as he is more of an SW fan than ST fan and who else thinks the writing in this movie is better than the prequels's writing? i mean sure the prequels had nice effects and good duels but the big problem was the s hitty writing of Lucas when he should had hired a proper writer for the prequels. This one is quite well written by proper writers and a wonderful mix of old/new effects combined and all that.

Nice to see Harrison Ford and Mark Hamil back but with Hamil now passing the torch of his master Obi.

[Raph's Girl]

Spoiler:

Just got home from seeing it. Theatre I go to is playing it every 20 min...seriously there's 6 screens playing it at once! Saw a couple people dressed up. One guy dressed as Han looked like he'd had the outfit since the 70s! *lol*

So my thoughts. I thought it was good. Some questions were answered, some weren't...

Help me Luke Skywalker. You're our only hope against your EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL Nephew...oi... poor Leia and Han.

Answered questions:
1: Kylo aka Ben Solo... Okee doke... Not Anakin but Ben...
2: Oh there's Luke... hi there Luke...nice to see you for like a fricken second...

Unanswered questions:
1: THEY NEVER EXPLAINED 3PO'S ARM!! Like WTF?! "Oh hai Han... you probably didn't recognize me cuz I have a red arm...but that doesn't matter cuz it's going to be back to it's regular colour later on..."
2: So Han and Leia never married??
3: Did Han know Rey's origin?? Maz asked Han about her but what was said was done off screen. :/ And now we'll never really know since Han was killed by his own son...

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by Krutch

I'm not arguing it doesn't make sense that she can. My issue with her is she has no flaws. She always has the skill set needed for every scenerio: She's an ace pilot, a competent fighter, a savvy tech, street smart, shows compassion to towards droids, gorgeous, and by the end of the movie, pretty damn force strong. She's too perfect that it releases the tension of any scene she's in. Even when she's tied up in restraints, she resists mind control, turns the table on the main villain, gets the idea that she can force-convince someones mind and walks out the door.

...And I'm not so sure that scavenging and understanding technology really correlate to each other. I can go dumpster diving at junkyards every day and never understand how a car works. I may learn what parts are more valuable, though.

Yeah, I can see that. I think that's an issue with a lot of fictional characters in stories like this. And yeah, I'm just spit balling ideas about why it's possible she would understand some of these things. In the end they could come up with some bullsh*t plot point to explain any of it away, so it doesn't really matter. I do agree that it was weird she had no character flaws, but it also didn't exactly bother me.

Actually, he was able to pull the info from Poe no problem. Also was able to stop and hold a blaster shot for minutes while also interrogating someone.

Sure, but those are two entirely different situations from Rey's interrogation for any number of reasons. I get what you're saying though.

Considering she thought Luke Skywalker and the Jedi were all a myth I'm going to guess she was never taught the ways of the force.

Yeah, I forgot that conversation even happened. I still need to see it a few more times to get my mind straight with all of it.

I agree. Again, my issue isn't that she can do this stuff, its that she can already do this. Especially against someone who has been trained exclusively on using a lightsaber. By Luke Skywalker himself, I might add.

...And understanding how to use a bo staff is not the same as using a sword.

I guess. What I was really getting at is that she isn't exactly getting into a fight for the first time, nor is she fighting someone who has apparently had an incredible amount of experience in fighting another force user. And again, he's injured, is clearly overly emotional and seems pretty out of it all together by that point. Maybe I just don't care as much about that outcome? If we find out he had an incredible amount of training and was actually super impressive as a padawan then that may retroactively make the outcome seem like more a stretch though.

Are we? What exactly is he dealing with? What are his motivations for wanting to be on the darkside instead of the light? I understand he's on the fence. I understand he's struggling. But we don't understand why he's struggling. That's pretty damn important to the scene. Does Kylo feel like Han abandoned him when he gave him over to Luke? Did Kylo have any say in the matter? Was he just a bad apple? Maybe Han actually did something absolutely monstrous that completely justifies his resentment? Point is, we don't know, so we can't sympathize either way. For all we know Han never got him the Life Day present he wanted. Who knows?

I get it. I guess I just keep coming at all this stuff from the long term perspective. What might not be as satisfying now may turn out to be far more satisfying in retrospect. That's on me though. I think you're right that in the context of this movie it's less earned.

Umm... yes? For dramatic purposes, wouldnt it make much more sense that after severing his link to humanity, he becomes a wrathful sith lord and despite being severely wounded, still almost kills Finn and Rey? And by proximity, wouldn't that give Rey something to strive for next movie? Making sure she doesn't lose the next time? But Rey conquers all, I guess. The Resistance even sends her of all people to go seek out Luke. Umm... alright.

This is one thing I don't really agree with at all. I mean, I get where you're coming from, but him being a snivelling little sh*t who kills his father in cold blood, then goes on to ultimately fail is way more interesting to me than him being your typical unstoppable villain. I understand what you're saying about Rey getting out with an unscathed victory immediately though.

No, my issues aren't that Han died or even that it didn't feel earned(which it didn't). The way the story has presented the character of Kylo Ren does not generate pathos for the scene. The only reason we really care about him at all is because he's a byproduct of characters we know and love. Theres no poetry in a character who's just a big question mark killing someone we know. Lets break down what we actually know for certain about Kylo Ren...

-He's Han and Leia's son.
-He's chosen to be on the dark side of the force for reasons unknown.
-He's conflicted with his decision to be on the dark side of the force for reasons unknown.
-He has a grudge against Han Solo for reasons unknown.
-Luke trained him and because of some unknown reason, it didn't work out.

And if you're saying its a character moment for Kylo, which I too believe it is, you can add...

-He kills his father to help him embrace his darkside. He felt he had to do this for reasons unknown.

So really, the only thing we have a clear picture of for sure, is that he's Han and Leia's son. Every single other thing is a mystery. I'm not saying this won't be fleshed out in future sequels, which I'm sure it will, but if I'm judging The Force Awakens storytelling, theres zero pathos in a character we know nothing about killing someone who we love for unclear reasons.

You see what I'm getting at here?

Yeah, I do and I agree completely with you. Again, I think this is where I'm coming at it from the long term perspective. If you look at all of this as a single movie it's far less satisfying. I tend to take the long view on this kind of stuff.

Again, I'm not trying to bash the movie. I liked it a lot, and plan on seeing it once or twice more before it leaves theatres. But it's far from perfect.

I didn't think you were and it didn't come off that way. I thought you had interesting points for sure. And yeah, it's not perfect. Nothing is perfect and nothing ever will be perfect. All your points are totally reasonable and I agree with the majority of them. Difference of view point perhaps.