Shifting power levels

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The coloring errors are all because of Korean and other Asian animation studios. People fail to realize cartoons aren't animated in America. They animated them in cheap Asian animation studios where the workers are page below minimum wage and no benefits.

That's the one thing I have trouble defending. Bill Wolf should have done more with quality control. The animation style for Return of the Shredder was what they were always aiming for but only half the time they managed that due to different animation studios.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by shuriken

But no, Wise did not create the character traits, just made them a bit more stereotypical (except maybe Sarcasta-Raph).

Yeah I mean it was there already in the comics but Wise developed them a bit more. At least that's what I feel. Also probably helped the Turtles had different coloured bandanas. While that was more for marketing it helped identify the characters more. The shifting power levels was more to do with the writers not having an overall story arc. They couldn't make Shredder and co too powerful too quickly as the writers didn't know how much longer they'd have to keep the villains around for. From this point of view keeping them a constant threat posed a problem. It's probably one of the main reasons for them appearing in every other episode from Season 4 onwards.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by neatoman

The turtles did have personalites in the comics, they just weren't in your face about all the time. The elements of their personalities were already in place, all Wise did was flatten and stretch them out, but credit still needs to go to Laird and Eastman. The thing about the toy characters, let's say Bebop and Rocksteady, is that they probably came with documents explaining how to write their personalities so Wise's involvemnt there might also be less than he claims, especially if the stories about adlibbing are true.

And David Wise is a hack, don't pretend otherwise. His scripts are cluttered and cliché, most of them just plagiarised from silver age comic books. Not to mention the fact that he is infamous for recycling these scripts over and over again.

The show in general is pretty poorly written and Wise certainly didn't help, episodes often feature characters sitting around doing nothing that progresses the plot and it's just boring. To be perfectly honest I don't think anyone who worked on the cared the least bit about what they were doing, David Wise included.

Anyway, the bottomline of this rant is that David Wise was lacked any real creative spark and certainly didn't take his job seriously enough to care.

Don't confuse your fuzzy nostalgic feelings for clever or charming writing. It's fine if you like it for nostalgic reasons but it's not a good show, it's objectively terrible! It's boring to follow, unfunny in it's comedy and ugly to look at.

David Wise wrote the best episodes of the show. He was also the one who wrote the highest amount of episodes. Michael Reeves comes as a close second. I really liked Shredderville.

And yes, Wise clearly credits himself too much and sounds like a bitter arrogant hasbeen.

As for people not being invested or caring much about the show itself, well it was never meant to be a serious show with a continuous plot. That's how action cartoons were like back in the day. And in seasons 3 and 4, so many episodes were coming out that the creative team must have gotten burnt out. Are you including the voice cast in this, by the way? Because if you are I can't agree with you. the voice cast clearly was into it, hence why it's still fondly remembered after all these years. Their chemistry was pretty good.

Boring and unfunny? Well, that's your opinion and I disagree with it. It's true that it seemed like a better show when we were kids and that it's clearly dated, animation-wise, plot-wise and formula-wise. But I wouldn't call it a bad show or unfunny. Raphael's lines are still gold after all these year.s In fact, some of his jokes seem funnier to me as an adult than they did back when I was a kid.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

And this all false. The show is very funny, most episodes are pretty entertaining, and the animation from an old 80's and early 90's show still looks pretty good this today if we're talking about the best animated episodes.

The show is nearly 30 years old, what do you expect the animation to look like?

Yea, most episodes are entertaining to some degree. Even the not so great ones. In fact, for a 194 episode series, it didn't really have that many definite "bad" episodes. That being said, the series should have been 20-30 episodes shorter, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Powder

Yeah, & they certainly weren't adapted in Mirage, either. Both mocked & homaged, but not integrated as part of their personalities.

Pizza dude-bro is a novelist, mad scientist is a cynic, wisecracker is roid-rage, & fearless leader is Splinter Jr.

That's a very good description of the Mirage Turtles' personalities. The best one I've read thus far. Short and straight to the point.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Prowler

David Wise wrote the best episodes of the show. He was also the one who wrote the highest amount of episodes. Michael Reeves comes as a close second. I really liked Shredderville.

I was under the impression Shredderville was written by Francis Moss? I mean I bought a copy of his script off him along with Splinter Vanishes which he also wrote. But anyway apart from Wise and Reaves some of the writers like Moss did do some great work on the show it's just those three were the most dependable ones.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I was under the impression Shredderville was written by Francis Moss? I mean I bought a copy of his script off him along with Splinter Vanishes which he also wrote. But anyway apart from Wise and Reaves some of the writers like Moss did do some great work on the show it's just those three were the most dependable ones.

Hmm, maybe you're right. Now that I think of it, it was either Moss or Reaves who wrote it.

Neither came close to the amount of episodes David Wise wrote, anyway. Although I suspect that Wise has only written about 10 scripts and then recycled then throughout his career

[TurtleGuy]

It's funny how sometimes you'll get inconsistent power levels within the same episodes.

Like in "The Old Switcheroo" One minute you'll have Bebop struggling to lift a box and the next he's swinging Mikey by the other end of his nunchucks and tossing him like a sack of potatoes with ease with just one arm.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Hmm, maybe you're right. Now that I think of it, it was either Moss or Reaves who wrote it.

Neither came close to the amount of episodes David Wise wrote, anyway. Although I suspect that Wise has only written about 10 scripts and then recycled then throughout his career

It was Moss. Pretty much anything with Zach in it was by Moss.

[TMNTInsighter]

Originally Posted by Yabuturtle

Does anyone notice this like in the 1987 cartoon? I noticed that sometimes the villains will be very competent in some episodes and at other times, they end being push overs. I remember Shredder usually running away and fighting sometimes. Sometimes he would hold his own or get pushed aside or he would actually defeat them in combat, like in the episode The Incredible Shrinking Turtles. He actually defeated all 4 of them and rather easily. I remember Krang fighting both Don and Mike and doing quite well, tossing them aside, until both Turtles pushed themselves harder and eventually defeated him and in other episodes like Super Irma, he gets taken down by Leo with little effort.

Even with Bebop and Rocksteady, there were episodes were they were actually a threat and other times, they are just push overs, even being physically defeated in direct hand to hand combat. Although I heard Shredder is supposed to be more talented than the turtles and that only Splinter is on par with Shredder in most series.

I just find it weird on how these battles can be so inconsistent where one minute they are a serious threat and they are push overs in the next episode. xD

The combat for the series as well as the Nickelodeon one (and MAYBE sometimes for the 2003 series) is more or less just a function of the plot. I try not to read too much into it myself a lot.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

It was Moss. Pretty much anything with Zach in it was by Moss.

Really? Interesting, never noticed that.

Maybe Zach was his idea? Well screw him, then

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Really? Interesting, never noticed that.

Maybe Zach was his idea? Well screw him, then

Yeah I know it's Moss who wrote the episode because I bought a copy of his script.