Was the Writing Ever Good to Begin With?

[Bauer536]

This has been boggling my mind for awhile. Sometimes, we tend to complain that this season's writing hasn't been the best. But was it even well-written in the first place?

Here's what's driving me nuts:

You have some great concepts that actually translate well into an enjoyable episode. For others, that does not seem to be the case. Episodes like "Vision Quest" and "Trans-dimensional Turtles" were good for what they were, but imagine if they were both an hour long. That would leave us with room for better character development, more emotional scenes, and probably, some deep messages to learn from. Everything is starting to jump around, and it is getting irritating. Also, if it is hard to write a 22 page script, shouldn't there be a different who can do it, or (and I blame this on the standards) should page length not always matter when writing a story? I've practiced with scriptwriting software, and sometimes I time how long a scene would be on screen. If it's one page, it's supposed to be a minute, but I've noticed it isn't always like that. If it's full of action, and it takes 3 pages to write it, can it still be filmed in a minute? I think Nickelodeon is taking this way too seriously. They should time themselves when they read their scripts to test out how long it really is, as if they were live on the air. I think their scripts are way too short, and I'm not sure it's helping anymore.

Also, these few things from the show feel unrealistic or all over the place.

Why would the turtles not know what pizza is if they've grown up together watching TV? There were no commercials for pizza when Space Heroes was on? How could the shellraiser drive on two lanes, when there could be people driving? Why does April have to be either a plot device or deus ex machina when things go wrong? I mean, she's got all these powers and is able to defeat anyone with them. What's the point of having the turtles if she's so good? A little "MaRey Sue," if you ask me. Why do the night sequences
always have a full moon?

Why, after all of the times this has happened to them, do the turtles fight head on at giant creatures like the Triceratons, Rocksteady, and Armmagon? Even a katana or sai can't break them. Are these turtles even good ninjas, or fighters, or leaders? Have any of the characters learned from their mistakes? Besides being evil, how much depth does Shredder have?

I never thought the show was terrible, but I'm starting to think that this is not a great source for good writing. Also, I think it's gotten worse this season.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

This has been boggling my mind for awhile. Sometimes, we tend to complain that this season's writing hasn't been the best. But was it even well-written in the first place?

Here's what's driving me nuts:

You have some great concepts that actually translate well into an enjoyable episode. For others, that does not seem to be the case. Episodes like "Vision Quest" and "Trans-dimensional Turtles" were good for what they were, but imagine if they were both an hour long. That would leave us with room for better character development, more emotional scenes, and probably, some deep messages to learn from. Everything is starting to jump around, and it is getting irritating. Also, if it is hard to write a 22 page script, shouldn't there be a different who can do it, or (and I blame this on the standards) should page length not always matter when writing a story? I've practiced with scriptwriting software, and sometimes I time how long a scene would be on screen. If it's one page, it's supposed to be a minute, but I've noticed it isn't always like that. If it's full of action, and it takes 3 pages to write it, can it still be filmed in a minute? I think Nickelodeon is taking this way too seriously. They should time themselves when they read their scripts to test out how long it really is, as if they were live on the air. I think their scripts are way too short, and I'm not sure it's helping anymore.

Also, these few things from the show feel unrealistic or all over the place.

Why would the turtles not know what pizza is if they've grown up together watching TV? There were no commercials for pizza when Space Heroes was on? How could the shellraiser drive on two lanes, when there could be people driving? Why does April have to be either a plot device or deus ex machina when things go wrong? I mean, she's got all these powers and is able to defeat anyone with them. What's the point of having the turtles if she's so good? A little "MaRey Sue," if you ask me. Why do the night sequences
always have a full moon?

Why, after all of the times this has happened to them, do the turtles fight head on at giant creatures like the Triceratons, Rocksteady, and Armmagon? Even a katana or sai can't break them. Are these turtles even good ninjas, or fighters, or leaders? Have any of the characters learned from their mistakes? Besides being evil, how much depth does Shredder have?

I never thought the show was terrible, but I'm starting to think that this is not a great source for good writing. Also, I think it's gotten worse this season.

Nick TMNT is endearing for what it... is, but I don't think it's any revelation to say that Viacom probably didn't buy the TMNT property to see how high they could push the bar in terms of literary value. That ship already sailed. Straight into the Bermuda Triangle.

[plastroncafe]

Agreed.
I'd love to have a frank conversation with the writers about what parameters they have regarding which stories they can tell, and how. What concessions do they have to make not only because of the format of the show itself, but also to appease the powers that be.

But...that'll never happen.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Agreed.
I'd love to have a frank conversation with the writers about what parameters they have regarding which stories they can tell, and how. What concessions do they have to make not only because of the format of the show itself, but also to appease the powers that be.

But...that'll never happen.

To be fair, Viacom has shown concern for high end storytelling in their other high priority TMNT media, like the movi -- oh... actually never mind.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It's safe to say, writing good television must be harder than it seems. Because most discussions of failed writing in a particular show or episode or usually pretty spot on.

And yet, I'm always infuriated by poor writing. Always. Writing well isn't that hard.

[plastroncafe]

Heh.

I just...it boggles my mind that a network that has a history of great innovative animation with quality stories (Ren and Stimpy, Rug Rats, Avatar, the staying power of Sponge Bob), in an marketplace where people are doing amazing things and racking up ratings in the process (Disney with Gravity Falls, Cartoon Network Steven Universe), Nick would rather cash out than play a long game.

[CyberCubed]

This thread really needs to be locked. I have no idea what's wrong with this forum lately.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

This thread really needs to be locked. I have no idea what's wrong with this forum lately.

How many times have you expressed your desire to have threads locked lately?

[plastroncafe]

Your face needs to be locked!

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by neatoman

How many times have you expressed your desire to have threads locked lately?

Because on this Nick section especially people literally post the same thread over and over again. And they're all the same people.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

I never got farther than 10 episodes in this show because I couldn't stand the writing.

We were spoiled, almost, with the quality of the 4Kids show. Not counting FF and BttS.

There's so much surprising potential a story about the goofiest thing ever - giant turtles who are also ninjas - can have. Philosophical questions about identity - are they man or monster? Or both? Is it their job to police the city when they terrify all of its inhabitants? Etc. But I guess it's more profitable to show them eating pizza.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Because on this Nick section especially people literally post the same thread over and over again. And they're all the same people.

Well, what did you was going to happen after the venting sticky got locked?

[ABrown]

I wonder if the Technodrome forums had been around back in 1997/1998, if we wouldn't be allowed to say anything that isn't isn't positive about The Next Mutation either.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by ABrown

Agreed.

I wonder if the Technodrome forums had been around back in 1997/1998, if we wouldn't be allowed to say anything that isn't isn't positive about The Next Mutation either.

Uh, what? Next mutation was disliked from the start. Its never had a lot of fans.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

I never got farther than 10 episodes in this show because I couldn't stand the writing..

What's wrong with the writing in the first 10 episodes?

[plastroncafe]

I do think the writing on the Nick show was good to begin with at the beginning. Like every series things are a little rough at the beginning as the creative team is sussing out what works and what doesn't, and also what plays well and what doesn't.

The problem is that level of inconsistency, which is to be expected in the beginning, continued and was exacerbated in the later seasons.

There's still some really good stuff being produced, but not consistently.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Uh, what? Next mutation was disliked from the start. Its never had a lot of fans.

Not exactly. The climate over TMNT-L and NTML at the time was... "We all enjoy it and... let's focus on what good there is in it."

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

The problem is that level of inconsistency, which is to be expected in the beginning, continued and was exacerbated in the later seasons.

There's still some really good stuff being produced, but not consistently.

Didn't you stop watching regularly back in Season 3? What eps have you seen recently?

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Didn't you stop watching regularly back in Season 3? What eps have you seen recently?

Shhh. Grownups are talking.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

This thread really needs to be locked. I have no idea what's wrong with this forum lately.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Because on this Nick section especially people literally post the same thread over and over again. And they're all the same people.

Yet you post here and spout the same nonsense constantly just because it's Ninja Turtles related. Unless it be Next Mutation, a rather lackluster series with potential not fully expanded on or the PD movies, you come here and defend as normal. "Wah, people are spouting negativity about a show I'm clearly over the age for that I love and defend dearly." Cut me a break.
_______________________

Sorry, I had to get that out of my system, too many times I see people getting soft on the show; now with the space arc done, I've been waiting to say this for a while. I think for the show itself the writing varies, but I think there's been episodes that have proven to be rather smart. Here are a few examples:

1. Slash & Destroy- The quintessential story of this entire series. Outside brutal imagery for Slash's motives to murder the group, it almost feels like something one of the comics can accomplish. Subtle, tragic, the list is endless to describe this episode as not just a fight to the finish, but reinterpret a rather mediocre antagonist of old. By far the best Slash up to this point and one of the greatest Raphael stories of all time.

2. Never Say Xever- While not entirely tragic, it serves it's purpose of turning Leo onto the right path to be a leader. Not more I can really say outside it's developments.

3. Metalhead Rewired- In terms of emotional punches, I can bet for Tale of the Yokai, Vengeance is Mine or a finale are better. However, I'd argue this as more emotional because a sentient Metalhead is willing to find his way to be accepting. Sure, the mutants plot with the Kraang is confusing for most of the captives, but it does a fantastic job making a supporting character like Metalhead tragic. Does the machine make the man or is the machine truly a person? Leave it up to you on that.

Sadly, I can't say nearly much of season 3 let alone season 4 truly have impressive writing. Personally, they aren't entertaining with rushed narratives, a lack of wit and, if going for humor, are most of the time groan worthy. Just depends exactly what kind of taste you're looking for. If looking for a fun time, it's reasonably entertaining though subjective. In terms of story though, you're better off sticking to season 1 or parts of season 2... or you know, the comics or 2k3. The quality varies immensely as the show just lacks identity after build up, Northampton and the recent space arc are prime examples.

I could go on for a while on how and why the show has fallen from grace, but for now, I'll leave those three examples up for the time being. The show just doesn't have as much soul anymore; it knows the lore, but is unable to fully commit.