Sinking ratings, is nostalgia not working?

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

That makes no difference. You're acting like all the writers aren't professionals who graduated College and have writing skills and work in the industry. They didn't hire people off of fanfiction.net

Bro, off the top of my head I can name you ten hack writes and ten hack directors who I know have college degrees. Just because you're in her industry doesn't mean you don't stink ln ice.

[Ninturtle]

Originally Posted by MrTMNT2012

It's true. The show has everything you mentioned except good writing, after Season 1. Because Season 1 actually had veteran writers.

Also, Brandon Auman. 2 reasons why no one watches this series anymore.

Brandon Aumon is pretty bad, aside from his ****** writing , I hate how he can't take criticism for ****.

[ToTheNines]

Auman's plots often scream "video game script". And he never let's the narrative breathe.

In places where the story would really benefit from a time jump or a montage, he loves to just have the characters run outta one crazy scenario to the next, no matter how silly or unnatural it is.

[snake]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Now if they'd hire people from A03, that'd be a different story.
(and quite possibly a better written, more genre savvy one)

I got that joke

Just wanted to say that

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

That sounds boring as ****.

Originally Posted by NinjaPug

Seriously. 26 episodes of only that would've been pretty terrible.

And repeating stuff from before isn't? At least being in the city for a while forces them to explore it first rather then moving onto the big stuff right away. Plus they haven't even explored a tenth of what's in that city. Did you know there is a giant park and a big ass zoo smack dab in the center of the city? And that New York is pretty much a port? It doesn't mean I have no interest in seeing space aliens or anything else fantastical for that manner, but they barely established this city before they started pulling out the big guns and trying to go bigger and badder each time. Plus they have too much of a 'checklist' of people and places they are adhereing to, not every iteration needs a visit to North Hampton nor does it need a Bebop and Rocksteady. They can go other places, and Shredder can have other henchmen. I thought this show was going to do it, but they adhered to status quo and did what others have done before, not daring to make up their own stuff or at least fleshing out characters they did have.

Originally Posted by Wolfie65

'Sacly!
Might have been better if there wouldn't have been ANY additional mutants (never mind Kraang...) in season 1, just a series of well-written episodes of the Turtles fighting foot in back alleys, warehouses, wharfs, sewers.
Even Shredder should have been nothing more than a shadowy menace in the background, more felt than seen.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Now that you mention it, they did blow their wad rather early. Season 1, and virtually "everybody" was in it.

And that's what I mean. They wouldn't let stuff develop enough before they went to the stuff they did, and now it doesn't feel as great because everything feels rushed and half of the development doesn't stick. They had a quota of toys to shill and it's showing. It's why I wished they weren't afraid to let the story sell the toys, because if you like a character you'll buy the toy, and the story will make you care enough to keep tuning in.

But they did what they did, and it's they bed they're going to be lying in.

[Refractive Reflections]

One question that may need to be asked is (and I think it might have been mentioned before), is that if this cartoon wasn't associated with TMNT at all (as if it were a completely new television series), could the show itself (with its writing, tone, pace, characters, plots, etc.) stand on its own without being bolstered up by the TMNT brand/name legacy? ...Because that's how most children are viewing the show, since they have no comprehension (at least the emotional attachment) of the magnitude of TMNT's past legacy. For them, it's completely new, and this show will probably set the initial tone of how they perceive TMNT until they become aware of another depiction. (Similarly to how one generation perceived the OT, and how the next generation after perceived the 2K3 series.) ...And if the kids disliked Bay's version of TMNT, it would persuade kids to be drawn further away from the TMNT franchise itself.

...Or does the series need to constantly remind its audience explicitly (i.e. nostalgic references, very similar plots) and implicitly (few developed original characters/plots) of its association with past TMNT milestones? So that whichever direction the series takes, it can be subtly accepted under the "canopy of TMNT familiar elements", despite the targeted audience of children not having a clue nor especially any emotional attachment to these elements/references as adults may have. Although the series may be following the template of TMNT for a series, what heavily obscures that template, is rather the hodgepodge of irregularly assembled elements that appears to be "TMNT familiar", yet it's own overall consistency in terms of the show's self-sufficiency seems... dissonant at best.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

One question that may need to be asked is (and I think it might have been mentioned before), is that if this cartoon wasn't associated with TMNT at all (as if it were a completely new television series), could the show itself (with its writing, tone, pace, characters, plots, etc.) stand on its own without being bolstered up by the TMNT brand/name legacy? ...Because that's how most children are viewing the show, since they have no comprehension (at least the emotional attachment) of the magnitude of TMNT's past legacy. For them, it's completely new, and this show will probably set the initial tone of how they perceive TMNT until they become aware of another depiction. (Similarly to how one generation perceived the OT, and how the next generation after perceived the 2K3 series.) ...And if the kids disliked Bay's version of TMNT, it would persuade kids to be drawn further away from the TMNT franchise itself.

It's an interesting question.

I came aboard the series with the OS. I think the first episode I saw was the Big Break In.

I didn't know about the comics until 1993. and it took a long while to get into them because the tone was so different. although in my case, it didn't distance me away from the original series. i wanted more of both.

My question would be..
I wonder if all these new kids experiencing tmnt for the first time saw bays version, realized it for the crap it was, and then they started questioning their like for the new series..

Did the ratings start to drop after bay turtles came out? or before?

For me, the series isn't strongly show run enough. it seems like things are planned half haphazardly, and other things are forgotten. and then you have weird things like attack of the mega shredder thrown in for no good measure.

but, that may work with kids of today, who are used to constantly changing social media platforms and never staying on one thing for more than 10 minutes till the next big thing comes along.

it may seem like a convoluted, disorganized series to me.....but that may not matter to kids of today.

It could also be because kids phase out of things quicker than they did in the 90s. things run their course after 3 seasons.

[CyberCubed]

NOTHING is being forgotten. You people keep claiming nonsense when the show is still running. Its called recurring plotlines.

[MrTMNT2012]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Auman's plots often scream "video game script". And he never let's the narrative breathe.

In places where the story would really benefit from a time jump or a montage, he loves to just have the characters run outta one crazy scenario to the next, no matter how silly or unnatural it is.

This.

I still genuinely think TMNT 2012's First Season can go toe-to-toe with the likes of Avatar and Korra as the Cartoon Greats.

Just rewatched the whole thing and the quality still stands. In fact it's even better now that we've seen how bad the show's become.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by MrTMNT2012

Just rewatched the whole thing and the quality still stands. In fact it's even better now that we've seen how bad the show's become.

There's no real difference aside from the freshness of everything and the characters.

[ABrown]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

One question that may need to be asked is (and I think it might have been mentioned before), is that if this cartoon wasn't associated with TMNT at all (as if it were a completely new television series), could the show itself (with its writing, tone, pace, characters, plots, etc.) stand on its own without being bolstered up by the TMNT brand/name legacy?

This is something that I've wondered about. If it wasn't for the TMNT brand, I really don't think that I would've stayed with the show. While I don't think that there would be anywhere near the number of teenagers and adults that watch the show, I do think that it still very well might've been a hit with kids though.

[Gunstar_Red]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

if this cartoon wasn't associated with TMNT at all (as if it were a completely new television series), could the show itself (with its writing, tone, pace, characters, plots, etc.) stand on its own without being bolstered up by the TMNT brand/name legacy?

I can say with certainty that it wouldn't have made it past the 1st or 2nd season and that's not because of the concept. It's because action cartoons are not popular now. Apart from shows about previously existing superhero properties, it's very rare to find the 'American Dragon: Jake Long' and 'Megas XLR's in this generation. It's all about situational, absurdism, and/or slice of life humor that may or may not have continuity.

The Nick Turtles owes a lot to having a previous legacy.

[Wolfie65]

There's a video-gamey (and often animé) look to many things these days.
Cartoons, movies, TV shows, toys, wargames miniatures...the list goes on.
Sometimes appropriately so, mostly not.

[dragonside]

hmmmmm well sounds like they should just put the nick toon on netflix or other streaming sites (nothing yet in canada), i'm not even sure if its in the States.

I guess being on itunes is goodish. But I am keeping up with the dvd releases. I cut the cable a long time ago, and I'm expecting that a lot of people just cut the cord systematically over the last four years. So TMNT's gotta join the fray, instead of selling individual episodes on itunes.


If anything, TMNT always felt like an episodic kind of tale, with small references, slice of life and although they do great things, its still, back to the same life at the end of the day.

While Avatar had a very in-depth story with a lot of world building, destiny, high level themes (plus all the character quirks).

TMNT = multiple narratives, meant to be continuously reinvented, with long standing characters going on adventures (there may be some growth, but still kind of limited, their growth is what you'd expect)

Avatar = single narrative, telling one grand story with continuously growing characters (from start to finish, from life to death).

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by dragonside

hmmmmm well sounds like they should just put the nick toon on netflix or other streaming sites (nothing yet in canada), i'm not even sure if its in the States.

I guess being on itunes is goodish. But I am keeping up with the dvd releases. I cut the cable a long time ago, and I'm expecting that a lot of people just cut the cord systematically over the last four years. So TMNT's gotta join the fray, instead of selling individual episodes on itunes.


If anything, TMNT always felt like an episodic kind of tale, with small references, slice of life and although they do great things, its still, back to the same life at the end of the day.

While Avatar had a very in-depth story with a lot of world building, destiny, high level themes (plus all the character quirks).

TMNT = multiple narratives, meant to be continuously reinvented, with long standing characters going on adventures (there may be some growth, but still kind of limited, their growth is what you'd expect)

Avatar = single narrative, telling one grand story with continuously growing characters (from start to finish, from life to death).

Try Archie when they get into the future. Both the turtles and the world around them have changed. There should be more like that.

[Electric]

As someone who defended the show unwaveringly during the first two seasons, I'll cast in my two cents.


The show has just gone downhill. To me, that's what it is. Watching an episode from this season, and one from the first or second, it's like watching a completely different style of show.
Episodes during the first season or two managed that action/comedy/drama aspect really well, but each of their episodes had a very direct focus. I always look to episodes like New Girl in Town or the Gauntlet.
Now, each episode is just literally all over the place. No form of drama or comedy lasts for more than 10 seconds, and every episode plots feels like they just try to jam so much in that they gloss over everything. I don't even get excited to watch new episodes anymore...

Now, I honestly believe that part of the issue may be this whole space arc. Think about it, almost every new episode they visited a new planet and met new characters, which meant that the show had to spend time focusing on each of them. Only after that could they actually continue the plot, which maybe why everything was just glossed over.
I'm hopeful that now they're back in New York, this show can go back to its normal, even paced balance it use to manage just fine. Human vs mutants sounds like a decent plot theme, and hopefully they can bring back some of the drama and tragedy of events surrounding Karai and the foot

[CyberCubed]

The show has kept a consistent quality throughout every season. There are a few dud fillers here and there every so often, but most of the episodes have been consistently good.

[Karai Samurai]

It's been a while since I've been on here.

Honestly, I don't even know when TMNT airs anymore. I started watching this show when I was very sick and stuck in bed four years ago. Now, between school, work and life, I don't have time to watch. It's still on my dvr and I watch it...whenever. TMNT is still a good show, but not as engaging as it once was.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The TMNT universe has hundreds of characters. They already held back popular characters.

Bebop/Rocksteady didn't even get mutations till Season 3! The Triceratons/Fugitoid were saved for Season 4. Renet/Savanti appeared in Season 3. Hun and Bishop didn't appear till Season 3. Armaggon, Lord Dregg, etc.

I have no idea why people think they introduced everyone in Season 1.

Mostly because all those characters didn't really need to return. Season 1 did good with its new characters and could have taken more time to develop them more. Now that I think about it... season 1 was all fresh and new. A bold new direction we never seen before. The later seasons started with adapting mirage arcs and trying to bring back every tmnt character ever made. And dragging out Northampton and outer space.

I'm just bored as hell other than the 80s crossover. The space arc just feels like filler to me until they get back to Earth and see if they revive splinter or not and get back to the shredder and karai storyline. Someone wake me when that happens.