4 year old child falls into gorilla habitat

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

No, I instantly think "but it's a human being". Child, adult, man, woman, white, black, whatever - I'd prioritize the safety of the human far more than I would the gorilla. If there were a way to get both out of the situation safely it would have been done. Human beings should have a natural instinct to protect their own from harm - that's why we have laws against harming others, and why that's been the norm for pretty much all of human history.



If you don't balk at the notion of letting one child die, why should we believe you could care if thousands do? Is it because 1000 is a bigger number than one? If there were 8,000 of these gorillas instead of only 800, would you not have such apathy for the kid in question?

Man is an animal. A gorilla is as sentient as you or I. We don't share a common language, our brains are slightly different.

But you don't see that, you see less than. This is the same thinking MLK fought. It's the same thinking that lead to a need for black lives matter.

Dominant does not equal special, or more than. This was wrong, the zoo was wrong. It was murder.

The child would have survived. if the gorilla had killed the child, THEN, a case could be made. The Gorilla did not, the strike was presumptive, similar to how salespeople love to follow me around a store, "just in case". Similar to the stop and search that happens because of the color of my skin.

You want to argue that? You want to tell me the shoot first option isn't prejudicial?

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Man is an animal. A gorilla is as sentient as you or I. We don't share a common language, our brains are slightly different.

It can be argued that a gorilla is as alive as you or I. Or that it has as much a right to life as you or I. But it cannot be argued that it is as sentient as a human. Humans think on levels far greater than gorillas. Mentally we are more powerful than them. We are capable of much deeper thought patterns than merely "eat, sleep" and, ironically, "protect". A gorilla, I assume, will protect its child from harm; shouldn't a human do the same as well?

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

You want to argue that? You want to tell me the shoot first option isn't prejudicial?

Have you actually seen the video? Have you seen the kid be dragged around like a doll? That's when the choice was made to kill the gorilla. The kid's life was in very real danger. If a gorilla were as sentient as a human it would have recognized how much power it had over the tiny toddler it would have treated him much more gently (because I don't think the gorilla had any malicious intentions at all). If efforts could have been made to keep both alive and safe, they would have been taken. Hell, maybe there might have been a way to do it. But when things get this serious, you have very little time for deliberation and a decision has to be made whether or not a better solution can possibly be deduced by a later time.

It makes no sense to say, "a case could be made if the kid had been killed". Because you know what people would be saying then? "Hmm. In hindsight, maybe it would have been a good idea to take out the gorilla before a young boy lost his life."

[The Deadman]

I never thought I'd see the day where someone would make an attempt to bring up a racial issue when talking about man and an animal.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by The Deadman

I never thought I'd see the day where someone would make an attempt to bring up a racial issue when talking about man and an animal.

Man is an animal. What don't you get.

It's actually where racism stems from, or are you not up on your black history.

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

It can be argued that a gorilla is as alive as you or I. Or that it has as much a right to life as you or I. But it cannot be argued that it is as sentient as a human. Humans think on levels far greater than gorillas. Mentally we are more powerful than them. We are capable of much deeper thought patterns than merely "eat, sleep" and, ironically, "protect". A gorilla, I assume, will protect its child from harm; shouldn't a human do the same as well?



Have you actually seen the video? Have you seen the kid be dragged around like a doll? That's when the choice was made to kill the gorilla. The kid's life was in very real danger. If a gorilla were as sentient as a human it would have recognized how much power it had over the tiny toddler it would have treated him much more gently (because I don't think the gorilla had any malicious intentions at all). If efforts could have been made to keep both alive and safe, they would have been taken. Hell, maybe there might have been a way to do it. But when things get this serious, you have very little time for deliberation and a decision has to be made whether or not a better solution can possibly be deduced by a later time.

It makes no sense to say, "a case could be made if the kid had been killed". Because you know what people would be saying then? "Hmm. In hindsight, maybe it would have been a good idea to take out the gorilla before a young boy lost his life."

The gorilla was 17. The gorilla was a juvenile. No matter how you slice it, it's one life over another, and that was wrong, because nothing had played out.

You're only making the case to for shoot first, like cops do in black neighborhoods.

It doesn't matter if you agree with me with respect to sentience, because it's still true. I'm not arguing that we share precisely the same cognitive faculties, because the theres no sciene one way or the other.

There are more than a handful of other animals who share sentience the world over, but being different species, the nature of that sentience is of course, different.

Like I said, I don't think, given all the data, that the kid's life was of greater value, or in fact, in any real danger.
I also think, they should be punished with gross negligence, at the very least.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Here's another shocking incident of a primate attacking a child.

Spoiler:

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Man is an animal. What don't you get.

It's actually where racism stems from, or are you not up on your black history.

I don't get it; are you trying to say a white man is a different species from a black man? Please tell me you have a more coherent thought than that.

And on that note, if that's the direction we're going, this is a good time for the thread to be locked.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

I don't get it; are you trying to say a white man is a different species from a black man? Please tell me you have a more coherent thought than that.

And on that note, if that's the direction we're going, this is a good time for the thread to be locked.

ARE YOU INSANE
learn to read.

I'm saying that's the root of racism. the less than, and the more than, and it should be stamped out.

You ****ing troll.

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

As probably the only actual parent on this thread, let me assure everyone, kids get into trouble--sometimes even this level of serious trouble--even with the most attentive parents.

^ this. We were discussing this at work over lunch a couple of days ago, about half the guys are fathers, and this was the over-riding opinion. Kids get up to god knows what and you can't keep your eye on them 100%, and if you get distracted for even a second, bam, they can be off. I did somewhat suggest in some circumstances that's what reins are for (I had them used on me at times when I was very young), but that didn't go down too well heh.

It was that and the fact that a four year old could get into the enclosure meant the enclosure wasn't that childproof then...

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

The gorilla was 17. The gorilla was a juvenile. No matter how you slice it, it's one life over another, and that was wrong, because nothing had played out... I don't think, given all the data, that the kid's life was of greater value, or in fact, in any real danger.

Looks pretty effin' serious to me.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

I'm saying that's the root of racism. the less than, and the more than, and it should be stamped out.

Oh, I get it. I felt like there was a missing link earlier.

Humans can only compare things based upon themselves. Less than / more than human is a very universal way of measuring things. You can't just throw that out the window and say that every living thing is entirely, completely equal.

Comparing the comparison of humans to other humans, to the comparison of humans to other animals, is like comparing apples and oranges. And you can say that humans and gorillas are both living, breathing creatures, but apples and oranges are both fruit. In the end they're completely different situations.

On a grand, cosmic scheme, the lives of gorilla and the kid are probably just as worthless. So are yours and mine. But, from a normal human's perspective, the life of the kid is worth more to me than to the gorilla. Doesn't mean I don't feel sorry that the gorilla had to die because of a stupid, stupid mistake, or that I wish something could have been done, but letting a toddler die because they didn't want to lessen the gorilla population by 1 would have been very wrong. Because that's placing a different species over a member of your own. Any human life is worth saving, even if, unfortunately, that means having to flex muscles and having to hurt or kill a member of another species.

Either way you cut it, you're placing the worth of one species - and one life - above another. As a human being, yes, I am biased to preserve the life of my fellow man.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

You ****ing troll.

Not a troll. Never have been. I'm not clever enough to troll effectively.

[The Deadman]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

http://i.makeagif.com/media/6-02-2016/Sc6_Oh.gif

Looks pretty effin' serious to me.

He was just taking the boy for a swim, like at a water park.

[Commenter 42]

800 Gorillas, 8 billion Humans.

The point is, they made a choice. The kid got a little wet, big ****ing deal. He should have gotten worse.

Seems to me like a very speciest decision, one that we make over and over again, as the most selfish, egomaniacal ANIMAL (I can't stress that enough) on the planet.

The view, of humans above all else, is a false one. It's time for a change.

And I rarely bring up race; but tread lightly on that one. It is very much the same thing, and if y'all disagree, you need to think a little harder. There are too many parallels to be drawn.

on a side note:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

That hole just keeps getting dug deeper and deeper. Probably about to run into a Balrog in the next few posts, Commenter. I'd be careful...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Okay, it's unfair of me to get snippy without posting an actual rebuttal.

Racism comes from devaluing human life. Referring to our American history pre-Civil War, the prevalent thinking was: "Whites are better than blacks; they're not as evolved as the superior white man, not much more than really smart monkeys... so it's okay if we buy and sell them and mistreat them." Not all people believed this, and obviously, a war was fought that hinged greatly upon this issue. Sadly it was still an uphill battle and in many areas still is...

Saying that animals and humans are the same thing and their lives are worth the same (or animals more) is further devaluing human life. Animals' lives are important and not something to be callously misused; humans have a responsibility to respect them, care for them, and look out for them. That's why we have animal cruelty laws and responsible zookeepers.

Yes, atrocities and inhumane treatment happens often. It's gotten much better and hopefully will continue to do so (in spite of PETA ladies dressing up in lettuce bikinis to shame us all for enjoying cheeseburgers).

[Commenter 42]

Yes, please school me on racism. This is fun.

How is it devaluing human life, to give equality to all scentient life?

Am I the only ****ing African-American here?

Jesus Christ this board is white.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Yes, please school me on racism. This is fun.

How is it devaluing human life, to give equality to all scentient life?

Am I the only ****ing African-American here?

Jesus Christ this board is white.

Of course you're the only black person on here. Everyone who disagrees with you must be white.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Of course you're the only black person on here. Everyone who disagrees with you must be white.

y'all are free to disagree with me, but stop with the preaching like you know what it's like. **** off with that ****.

You're talking out your MF ass.

[plastroncafe]

I'd be careful, keep this up and you're going to be getting one of our social justice newsletters, fresh from Tumblr.

Although actually, if anyone has a citation for gorillas having language I would love to read it. I know that some of them are capable of learning language, as defined as a purely symbolic method of communication, but I wasn't aware that they were discovered to have developed their own.

Point of order however, shooting the Gorilla was the last resort not the first.

And not just because it's the one that killed the gorilla. They actually tried to convince the animal to give up the boy, then they thought about using tranquilizer darts, and finally decided shooting him was an only solution.

[Commenter 42]

For the "anthro" comment:

[plastroncafe]

That's nice, but not what I asked for. Proof of symbolic language, please.

And if you could extend your newly found Equality to folks that aren't you, that would be grand.

Or you can continue being a TERF. That's okay too, I guess.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

That's nice, but not what I asked for. Proof of symbolic language, please.

And if you could extend your newly found Equality to folks that aren't you, that would be grand.

Or you can continue being a TERF. That's okay too, I guess.

Ah, see, again, that snark, such fun.

I was composing the post, when you put up the ask.

I don't know if there are specific examples of language... but as you know, language isn't the sole determinant of sentience.