4 year old child falls into gorilla habitat

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

...burp...snicker...blah...

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Man is an animal. A gorilla is as sentient as you or I. We don't share a common language, our brains are slightly different.

Evidence again, of you being you^^.

You do that with me quite a bit, you think you know what you've read, but you don't really. Skeletonman did the same a few pages back.

Moving on

The ****ing kid was 4 years old. CNN didn't get that right, likely because they were too busy oogling Trump.

I haven't worked at a zoo, but given that you have, please tell me, what were your responsibilities? Are you a primatologist? What are you're credentials for knowing, better than I what Harambe would/wouldn't do?

When Jane Goodall speaks out, condemning the incident, she must be wrong, right? You must have more experience and clarity than she, yourself being an armchair pundits in the behavioral psychology of non-human primates. You don't actually have anything to back up your claims, just boatloads of hostility.
Good for you, you should absolutely try to argue that an endangered species was justifiably killed, because that lines right up with the Ghostbusters remake is super important, and Bruce Jenner is a hero for borrowing his step-daughters lipstick. You're so right about so many things, including misquoting me, after raging on for two posts about missing a "t".

Good for you plastron. It's fine, 'cause the next time some stupid kid decides it wants to **** with the animals, we can all breathe easy knowing we'll just shoot the stupid animal, no big loss.

We can never have enough people.

This isn't really an attack on you - I just can't stand the fact that we're this impossibly selfish, all the time. It's disgusting.

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Apparently the parents were anything but well-disciplined. Picture of them in this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...l-history.html

Apparently Daddy was/is a habitual criminal.

While this doesn't mean the kid will follow, or that, they deserved this, etc, it doesn't help either. Apparently the mom was off taking a selfie when this all went down.

A selfie.

[plastroncafe]

You can't share a common language with something that doesn't have a language to begin with. By saying that gorillas and humans just don't share a common language you're implying that they have a language in the first place.

Which they, as of my knowledge, do not. For someone who knows differently you're certainly being obstinate in providing evidence.

Speaking of sources, let's take a look at that Goodall correspondence:

Dear Thane,

I feel so sorry for you, having to try and defend something which you may well disapprove of. I tried to see exactly what was happening - it looked as though the gorilla was putting an arm round the child - like the female who rescued and returned the child from the Chicago exhibit.

Anyway, whatever, it is a devastating loss to the zoo and the gorillas. How did the others react? Are they allowed to see, and express grief, which seems to be so important.

Feelings for you,

Jane

http://www.janegoodall.org/wp-conten...s/2796_001.pdf

I have made my own credentials clear, several times in fact.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

and Bruce Jenner is a hero for borrowing his step-daughters lipstick.

Wow, just wow.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

You can't share a common language with something that doesn't have a language to begin with. By saying that gorillas and humans just don't share a common language you're implying that they have a language in the first place.

Which they, as of my knowledge, do not. For someone who knows differently you're certainly being obstinate in providing evidence.

Speaking of sources, let's take a look at that Goodall correspondence:


http://www.janegoodall.org/wp-conten...s/2796_001.pdf

I have made my own credentials clear, several times in fact.

Holy **** child,

We don not share a common language means, we can't talk to one another, USING LANGUAGE!!!!!!!
I'm going to start calling you obtusecafe, seriously. twisty twist eh?

Why not just outright admit it, you don't have anymore insight than the rest of us.

Goodalls comment is pretty clear. In a very sweet, but knowing way, she's saying "you must be upset, he wasn't a threat, and y'all did what you shouldn't have. ****** for u. holla back at your girl"

...Not exactly tea leaves.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Wow, just wow.

because "who gives a ****" is the point. I don't care, it doesn't matter.
he's a rich douche, the family are scum, I don't give a ****.


What's wow? I'm not talking about you, i'm talking about our obsession with nonsense. I'm long past judging people based on anything more than their values...Jenner is a poster child for the most selfish generation, ever.

but get twsited on it, y'all do a great job of that.

[plastroncafe]

Send Dr. Goodall my warmest regards the next time you speak with her.
She's a personal hero of mine.

The NYT also list the boy's age as 3, so it's not just CNN.
Though a Cincinnati CBS affiliate goes with the NY Post age of 4.

Here are some updates to the story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/03/us...-say.html?_r=0

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cincinna...n-prosecutors/

They both go a little bit into the nuts and bolts of potential further legal actions.

I quite like this one from Wired though, which discusses the social implications of the loss within the gorilla community:

http://www.wired.com/2016/06/happens...e-complicated/

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

but get twsited on it, y'all do a great job of that.

Get what twisted? That you're misgendering Caitlyn Jenner?

[plastroncafe]

It's Chinatown, Kappa.
If we wait long enough he'll either tire himself out, or flounce from the forums like so many others who can't handle being given what they dish out.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

It's Chinatown, Kappa.
If we wait long enough he'll either tire himself out, or flounce from the forums like so many others who can't handle being given what they dish out.

To quote Captain America, I got that reference.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Get what twisted? That you're misgendering Caitlyn Jenner?

That's just it, Jenner isn't here. Jenner has more money than God. Jenner is the worst.

Like I said, gender is just a footnote to the person, like their hair/eye color, race, height etc... it shoudln't be the banner headline all the bloody time,

but I digress. I hate that family, hated them long before Bruce became Caitlyn, or Kim Married Kanye.

I still think it was a publicity stunt, like everything else in their lives. and THAT is shameful. Sure, it brought the issue to the fore, which is great, for my friends, but we all think Jenner is highly suspect.

[Candy Kappa]

Sure, she's not a good person. But correct pronouns shouldn't be earned.

[plastroncafe]

For someone who doesn't care about something you sure do spend a whole lot of time with an ax at that particular grind stone.
I mean, you've attempted to hijack a thread about gorillas several times just to get a couple more turns in.

It's almost impressive.

Because it was asked for before, a gorilla fact sheet:
http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/f/gorilla.pdf

LIFESPAN:
Mountain gorillas live up to 53 years in captivity

Lifespan
A gorilla's lifespan is normally between 35 and 40 years, although zoo gorillas may live for 50 years or more. Colo, a female western gorilla at the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium is the oldest known gorilla, at 59 years of age (as of her birthday on 22 December 2015).[47]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla#cite_ref-47

It's also important to consider that the behaviors of captive gorillas, the likes of which exist in zoos, is different from those found in the wild.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Sure, she's not a good person. But correct pronouns shouldn't be earned.

I'm trying to force the issue with Plastron, get her to see that she's ignoring the truth.

I'm trying to get her to open her mind, compare contrast...

I know I'm not really winning any friends in the process...

I just really, really really hate what happend. To me this is the absolute biggest, longest standing, most egregious "rights" issue humanity has ever had to grapple with. It obviously goes far beyond one gorilla...

And I honestly think Jenner is a fake... not that I should judge really, but still, it feels way too disingenuous.

[plastroncafe]

It might help if we shared a common language.

[Commenter 42]

zing!

Communication
"Gorilla communication" redirects here. It is not to be confused with Guerrilla communication.
Twenty-five distinct vocalisations are recognised, many of which are used primarily for group communication within dense vegetation. Sounds classified as grunts and barks are heard most frequently while traveling, and indicate the whereabouts of individual group members.[48] They may also be used during social interactions when discipline is required. Screams and roars signal alarm or warning, and are produced most often by silverbacks. Deep, rumbling belches suggest contentment and are heard frequently during feeding and resting periods. They are the most common form of intragroup communication.[49] Severe aggression is rare in stable groups, but when two mountain gorilla groups meet, the two silverbacks can sometimes engage in a fight to the death, using their canines to cause deep, gaping injuries.[49]

For this reason, conflicts are most often resolved by displays and other threat behaviours that are intended to intimidate without becoming physical. The ritualized charge display is unique to gorillas. The entire sequence has nine steps: (1) progressively quickening hooting, (2) symbolic feeding, (3) rising bipedally, (4) throwing vegetation, (5) chest-beating with cupped hands, (6) one leg kick, (7) sideways running, two-legged to four-legged, ( slapping and tearing vegetation, and (9) thumping the ground with palms to end display.[50]

Being wikipedia, not sure it's the most trusted or scholarly source... Maybe I'll go ask Jane for better links.

It's funny though. I started by arguing that sentient animals should b treated as non-human persons, meaning they should have rights, like we do. Some how, I allowed the argument to be turned into apes ARE people. Apes are apes, dolphins are dolphins, elephants are elephants. Our homunculies (sp?) are all different, so it stand to reason our verbal/social constructs will be varied.

As someone said, it's comparing apples to oranges, in a sense, sure, but really, saving one by destroying another, when you have bushels versus a single basket.

The bias is simply too strong, and wrong.

[Candy Kappa]

Well, that took its time. But no link?

[plastroncafe]

Not all communication is language.
Might I suggest The Language Instinct - Steven Pinker.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Well, that took its time. But no link?

I assume it's from the same wiki article I just posted a link to.
For how easy he says Google is, you'd think he'd employ its usage himself...

[Commenter 42]

...updated that post...

I'm on set... sorry.

@plastroncafe

It sure is...right from wikipedia, so that we're using the same source, but if I get time, maybe I'll dig up some of my other saved links...
I'm not home, so i can't reach for them at the moment.

[Candy Kappa]

http://anthro.palomar.edu/behavior/behave_4.htm

[plastroncafe]

That's not really where you started arguing.
Here's where you started arguing:

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

The kid wasn't in any real danger, but to be honest, if we're looking at things objectively, the gorilla is more important than the kid.

People are 8billion strong, there are less than 800 gorillas alive.

**** the kid, and his parents, and the idiot that shot the gorilla. **** the zoo in general.

You could literally lose all the attendees at the zoo that day, and still not make any real dent in humanity.

We worry about humans far more than we should.

It was the murder of an innocent.


Zoos shouldn't exist in the first place. It's wrong.

Your apology is accepted.