Turtles wear red masks again

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

I think the '80s cartoon has pretty much replaced Mirage as the source material. Multicolored masks? Love of pizza? Shredder being the Darth Vader of the franchise and clashing with the Turtles on a regular basis? Leonardo being the official leader? Those are pretty much unbreakable laws of the franchise today.

It can't become the source material, that will always and forever be Mirage. But the OT is what everyone knows, and everyone who makes turtle media draws from. As I said in another thread, there have been too many generations saturated with the OT elements, from multiple media sources. All major versions of TMNT going forward are going to be multicolored masked, pizza chomping, Bebop and Rocksteady fighting, ninja heroes.

With turtles, I see people drawing more from the mixed soup of all TMNT adaptations and generations, with mirage as the first foundational ingredient in the mix. But I don't see anyone in power ever just going back an making pure Mirage TMNT broth ever again. Unless a piece of media is directly tied to mirage, I don't see red bandannas ever being a thing in any turtle n ever again.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

It can't become the source material, that will always and forever be Mirage.

Maybe it would fairer to say that the OT has become the most influential installment of the franchise, rather than it replaced Mirage as the source material?

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

But the OT is what everyone knows, and everyone who makes turtle media draws from. As I said in another thread, there have been too many generations saturated with the OT elements, from multiple media sources. All major versions of TMNT going forward are going to be multicolored masked, pizza chomping, Bebop and Rocksteady fighting, ninja heroes.

With turtles, I see people drawing more from the mixed soup of all TMNT adaptations and generations, with mirage as the first foundational ingredient in the mix. But I don't see anyone in power ever just going back an making pure Mirage TMNT broth ever again. Unless a piece of media is directly tied to mirage, I don't see red bandannas ever being a thing in any turtle n ever again.

Actually, I think the "mixed broth" has been a good thing for the franchise. It really opens up the storytelling possibilities.

Agree with you that the colored masks are here to stay.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

Maybe it would fairer to say that the OT has become the most influential installment of the franchise, rather than it replaced Mirage as the source material?

Only on a corporate, "What is probably going to make us the most money, historically?" level. With the possible exception of IDW, the colored masks have never been (re)born out of any other sort of agenda.

Actually, I think the "mixed broth" has been a good thing for the franchise. It really opens up the storytelling possibilities.

I don't think the old adage about, "if you try to please everybody, you will please nobody" is too far from the mark. I mean, I'm not so anal that I'm absolutely against intrinsically good elements from the children's spinoff stuff making it into new mainstream material... but it's got to be intrinsically good stuff. TMNT jambalaya, or making the creative puzzle "How do we rearrange these existing pieces from all these children's spinoff universes into something new?" instead of "How do we take the true spirit of the TMNT and come at it with a new, cohesive creative vision and really make it pop?" just seems pretty... I want to say lazy, but it's not (because I can imagine it being a lot of work in itself), but just plain shortsighted and the snake eating its own tail. Borderline fanfiction (which... it is, in a way, because now it is literally the fans bringing back to life their childhoods playing with toys on bigger platforms). I mean, King Tut doesn't need to be dusted off in Batman just because some kids laughed at him once in the 60s show and #nostalgia. Sure, I'm absolutely certain a talented writer could make a kickass version of King Tut that's awesome and scary and everything that character wasn't on the show... but if you're going to do all that, why even use that character? Would it be so off-the-wall to leave that character on the rack and -- gasp -- make something new?

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Not exactly. Shredder in the FW cartoon wasn't really Darth Vader as much as he was Elmer Fudd.

Might sound like a strange way to start off my argument but most of the things you mentioned are rather superficial, multicolored masks and pizza aren't that important in the grand scheme of things. I've said this before but I feel it's worth repeating, tonally speaking (and storywise) the Fred Wolf cartoon is pretty much ignored,

You just couldn't resist taking potshots at the Fred Wolf cartoon could you. Sorry to disappoint you but no the Fred Wolf cartoon isn't ignored, it's just the stuff mentioned here was created for that cartoon and people like it enough that it's become associated with the Ninja Turtles throughout the years. You're blaming the public for liking aspects of the Fred Wolf cartoon that have carried on in other media?!

Originally Posted by WebLurker

Maybe it would fairer to say that the OT has become the most influential installment of the franchise, rather than it replaced Mirage as the source material? Agree with you that the colored masks are here to stay.

Yeah I mean you have to take into account the Mirage comic was still in it's infancy when the Fred Wolf series aired. There wasn't as much that could be adapted from the comic faithfully and stuff that could be adapted would need retooling (for better or worse) to audiences.

I'm not against bringing back the red masks, the cover made for the original Nes game was fantastic but years ago when I started reading the Mirage coloured comics I found it difficult to figure out who is who. I had to keep looking for their weapons to find out if Leo, Don, etc was speaking.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

You just couldn't resist taking potshots at the Fred Wolf cartoon could you. Sorry to disappoint you but no the Fred Wolf cartoon isn't ignored, it's just the stuff mentioned here was created for that cartoon and people like it enough that it's become associated with the Ninja Turtles throughout the years. You're blaming the public for liking aspects of the Fred Wolf cartoon that have carried on in other media?!

Yeah I mean you have to take into account the Mirage comic was still in it's infancy when the Fred Wolf series aired. There wasn't as much that could be adapted from the comic faithfully and stuff that could be adapted would need retooling (for better or worse) to audiences.

I'm not against bringing back the red masks, the cover made for the original Nes game was fantastic but years ago when I started reading the Mirage coloured comics I found it difficult to figure out who is who. I had to keep looking for their weapons to find out if Leo, Don, etc was speaking.

I never said it was being ignored, just that the things from it that continues to be used aren't really that important, like a coat of paint. For example, the IDW turles might eat pizza but it's out of focus, unimportant.

I mean honestly, do you really feel such a strong need to defend elements from a cheap toy commercial from anyone dismissing them as unimportant?

[Redeemer]

As much as I liked the Red Mask I am actually happy they have colored mask just so when I am reading the word bubbles in the comics I know who the Hell is talking Half the time while reading the old Mirage stuff I would have to go back a panel and look at which turtle had which weapon so I knew who the hell was talking.....

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by neatoman

the IDW turles might eat pizza but it's out of focus, unimportant.

How often do they eat pizza? I ask because I haven't read a lot of IDW.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

when I am reading the word bubbles in the comics I know who the Hell is talking Half the time while reading the old Mirage stuff I would have to go back a panel and look at which turtle had which weapon so I knew who the hell was talking.....

It can be difficult to go through life with a disability, it's true.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

How often do they eat pizza? I ask because I haven't read a lot of IDW.

Not a lot, probably less and less with time. Early on it's explained that Woody (a guy working at a pizzeria) caught the turtles rooting through the garbage for food and started giving them free pizzas out of charity. To be honest, they start eating a variety of different things pretty early on. Pizza is (for the most part) just treated like any other food in the IDW series and not like the thing the turtles love the most in the world, pretty soon you don't really think about it at all.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It can be difficult to go through life with a disability, it's true.

Why are admissions that the Mirage Turtles are hard to keep track of make the confessors targets of scorn?

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

Why are admissions that the Mirage Turtles are hard to keep track of make the confessors targets of scorn?

Because it's a lack of their brain being able to pick up on art, the other half of the comics communication form that really makes it comics... If you can't read the art and see the subtle differences, you have issues.

Saying that the bandanas HAVE to be colorized otherwise you don't know who is talking is just juvenile. It's your opinion. It's you agreeing with playmates that you are stupid. (I'm not saying you're stupid.) Playmates didn't want kids and parents to have to guess and wanted to be able to sell more toys. It's a gimmick.

The Turtles should wear red same as the foot soldiers. Even moreso now in IDW because they are part of the foot... They were "in a previous life" part of the foot clan when it was still good... Or at least Splinter was... Before he quit and they all died. Lol

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So basically, the color of the bandannas is for everyone what nostrils is for Cubed?

Good to know.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

If anything I would think that would be a reason NOT to. Wouldn't they want to distance themselves from the Foot and it's sullied honor? Even after rejoining, shouldn't they want to forge a new path by giving it a new image and letting Shredder's symbols die with him? Makes more sense than clinging to a past that only tarnishes their reputations.

[snake]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

If anything I would think that would be a reason NOT to. Wouldn't they want to distance themselves from the Foot and it's sullied honor? Even after rejoining, shouldn't they want to forge a new path by giving it a new image and letting Shredder's symbols die with him? Makes more sense than clinging to a past that only tarnishes their reputations.

Wouldn't distancing themselves be considered less honorable? I'm not too sure what is and isn't honorable when it comes to ninja clans.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

If anything I would think that would be a reason NOT to. Wouldn't they want to distance themselves from the Foot and it's sullied honor? Even after rejoining, shouldn't they want to forge a new path by giving it a new image and letting Shredder's symbols die with him? Makes more sense than clinging to a past that only tarnishes their reputations.

That's a dumb rationale. Should they switch from brown to white wristbands, because the Foot Soldiers wear brown wristbands, too?

I'm not too sure what is and isn't honorable when it comes to ninja clans.

Exactly. I mean, the Turtles do occasionally throw around the word "honor," but... really?

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Because it's a lack of their brain being able to pick up on art, the other half of the comics communication form that really makes it comics... If you can't read the art and see the subtle differences, you have issues.

Depends on the specific art. I've seen some where you can tell, infer by the dialogue, or otherwise. But others are very hazy that I wouldn't blame anyone from not knowing who's who. If the Mirage Turtles were more visually distinct, they way they are in the Nick cartoon and new movies, that would help considerably.

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Saying that the bandanas HAVE to be colorized otherwise you don't know who is talking is just juvenile. It's your opinion. It's you agreeing with playmates that you are stupid. (I'm not saying you're stupid.) Playmates didn't want kids and parents to have to guess and wanted to be able to sell more toys. It's a gimmick.

And now Playmates sells toys with all-red, too. We've come full-circle, huh?

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

The Turtles should wear red same as the foot soldiers. Even moreso now in IDW because they are part of the foot... They were "in a previous life" part of the foot clan when it was still good... Or at least Splinter was... Before he quit and they all died. Lol

Well, maybe in IDW, but in most other versions, they're not, so that specific argument doesn't seem relevant across the brand.

To be frankly honest, the "you can't tell who's who" is kind of secondary issue, at best. I vote multicolored for one reason, I think it looks better. I like the less uniform look, I think the different colors make them seem more unique, and on top of that, I've seen the all-red artwork and I don't like it. I miss the variety.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Others: The turtles should have red bandannas in order to serve the honour of the foot clan, plus it looks so much more original and pure than the childish colour bands that have occured because of FWs toxic influence on the franchise, surely it won't be significant in the grand scheme of the turtles. You must be a FW peasent if you rely on the colours to tell them apart, they were just made to sell toys and be corporate sell outs to kids, its a shame you can't appreciate the purity of the red bandannas and you should be concerned about yourself if you can't notice the subtlety of great art, you should be able to instantly tell each turtle apart without the colour bandannas!

Me: I think coloured bandanas look cool, I guess we should stick with those...

[Candy Kappa]

I personally prefer the red masks, but in the end I can tolerate the toyetic masks.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by snake

Wouldn't distancing themselves be considered less honorable? I'm not too sure what is and isn't honorable when it comes to ninja clans.

From a clan that was being run by a revenge-obsessed psychopath who has tried to kill them (sometimes repeatedly) in every version? The same clan that has been composed of teenage thieves, robots, and even gun-toting mercenaries in different iterations? THAT Foot clan? Given the turtles' and Splinter's more bushido code of honor, I'd say yes they WOULD want to distance themselves from that sort of thing. Particularly in versions where the Foot clan was Yoshi's RIVAL clan. (1990 film made it ound as though Yoshi came from a different clan than Saki.)

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

That's a dumb rationale. Should they switch from brown to white wristbands, because the Foot Soldiers wear brown wristbands, too?

Exactly. I mean, the Turtles do occasionally throw around the word "honor," but... really?

Dumb how? You don't wear the colors of your team's biggest rival and sit on the home side of a football game. THAT would be dumb. So why would they need or even want to wear the same colors as the guy who always wants them dead? Wearing the red really serves no purpose outside of "kewl edgy". Not even as a ninja thing since we already know ninjas never really had clan colors to begin with. Thats a European thing as several people have stated. If anything, the multi-colors is more in line with real ninjas. But hey red is so cool! So is all blue. Or all bkack..... The same rational could be used for any color if they had been given a different one.

Only REAL argument for all red is it would hide blood stains better.... Deadpool AINT wrong about that.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

Why are admissions that the Mirage Turtles are hard to keep track of make the confessors targets of scorn?

Yeah I don't get it either. They're all drawn the same pretty much unless we're talking about Volume 3, that's a different story.

Originally Posted by neatoman

I mean honestly, do you really feel such a strong need to defend elements from a cheap toy commercial from anyone dismissing them as unimportant?

What you consider unimportant people have fond memories of and like Turtles because it has those elements. And calling the 80s series a cheap toy commercial is taking potshots the same way I could call your beloved IDW series a cheap comic series. My opinion and people will disagree but I feel that's out of order man.