Star Wars Episode 8

[NinjaPug]

Originally Posted by sdp

I don't disagree that it's a dumb petition, but these petitions get started all the time.

My question is why is it "neckbeards" hate this movie Star Wars is awesome and yet for the prequels "It's George Lucas that's wrong"?

Who controls the narrative of when something bad is bad and something bad is not bad?

Also why try to pidgeon-hole everyone who doesn't like the movie because it isn't EU Luke or Rey isn't a Skywalker? I've seen these a lot as excuses as to why people don't like TLJ for petty reasons. I don't like TLJ because it's the same thing as the OT with some slight modifications, many feel the same way. It's not because "the changes are too much for us". Also why wasn't the narrative "the changes are too much for the fans" when it came to the prequels?

The people that disliked the movie and started a petition to remove this from canon are the ones that are upset at the things I mentioned. I'm not lumping them into everyone that didn't like the movie. There are aspects of the movie I don't like at all but nothing to do with the movie not living up to any preconceived head-canon.

I haven't seen anyone complain that there were too many changes for a SW movie to be able to enjoy it.

[Andrew NDB]

I liked the movie well enough despite some of the stuff I really didn't... but it doesn't take a Star Wars fan to point out the many poor storytelling choices and go-nowhere plot and character threads in the film, in and of itself.

It's kind of like... TFA was a really well made bad story... And TLJ was a badly made good story. To me.

[ProactiveMan]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Wouldn't that make him a horrible general, in any branch of the Armed Forces? And he's barely holding the rank of commander of what is the equivalent of their Space Navy.

He'd be swinging from a space-yardarm for the stunt he pulled on Laura Dern.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Speaking of which, how do their ranks work? We have "Commanders," which is a Naval rank, flying starfighters... yet we have Generals like Leia, Dodonna, etc., which is an Army, Air Force and Marine rank, which are the ones on the sidelines commanding the starfighter pilots. Is there two different Armed Forces in the Resistance/Rebel Alliance/New Republic, or some alien ranking system that merges both?

Plus Admirals who are wall-eyed fish monsters. I don't know about the US, but in our military Admiral and General are equivalent ranks. Leia is more like a Field Marshal - like, she seems to be the highest ranking officer in the whole shebang.

[TigerClaw]

Those audiences ratings like on Rotten Tomatoes shouldnt be counted, since the Cinemascore rating is the real audience rating, which has given the Last Jedi, an A Cinemascore.
https://www.cinemascore.com/



The only people upset, are a vocal minority.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ProactiveMan

Plus Admirals who are wall-eyed fish monsters. I don't know about the US, but in our military Admiral and General are equivalent ranks. Leia is more like a Field Marshal - like, she seems to be the highest ranking officer in the whole shebang.

True, I forgot about the Admirals. It would depend how many stars of a general you are to be equivalent to Admiral, unless we're assuming when someone says "Admiral So-and-So" they really mean "Admiral So-and-So," and not "Vice-Admiral So-and-So," or "Rear Admiral So-and-So."

Then there's things like Han Solo skipping all the way from Private to a 4 star general in the Rebel Alliance in less than one year. I have to assume that was an honorary thing.

[plastroncafe]

Or that everyone directly above him died.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Or that everyone directly above him died.

Hey, it's possible in Star Wars, but you certainly wouldn't hear about field promotions to Admiral or General. Mostly because... they're not out in the field. And that's not the way it works. Most are between one lower ranked position to another, and even then you have to go back and take the right course to have it stick. There's things like "The Captain of our naval ship is dead... you're acting captain now, Mr. second-in-command!" But that's just acting captain, and it's only until you pull into port. It doesn't work like in Abrams' Trek.

[ProactiveMan]

The first order is weird too. Hux seems like he's the highest ranking military official, but he is always on the front line, riding around in the most favorable targets available.

Also, Phasma is a Captain. Is she an Army Captain or a Navy Captain? She doesn't seem to function like a Navy Captain, so I'm guessing Army, which makes her the equivalent of a Navy Lieutenant I guess? But she acts more like a Commander.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ProactiveMan

The first order is weird too. Hux seems like he's the highest ranking military official, but he is always on the front line, riding around in the most favorable targets available.

Also, Phasma is a Captain. Is she an Army Captain or a Navy Captain? She doesn't seem to function like a Navy Captain, so I'm guessing Army, which makes her the equivalent of a Navy Lieutenant I guess? But she acts more like a Commander.

Yeah, it's got to be the Army/Marines equivalent of a captain (O-3). If she's an (Imperial) Navy captain (O-6), where's this ship she's captaining? And if she is, why would she be continually bossing around Stormtroopers on ships that aren't hers, captained by captains that aren't her? And dressed like a chrome Stormtrooper all the time?

Which makes her role in TLJ that much more confusing. If she's the equivalent of a First Order Army or Marines captain, then she has to be part of a detachment (and not even the highest ranking one... surely there's a major, or lieutenant colonel above her?), presumably the one she was part of on the Star Destroyer in TFA. That Star Destroyer wasn't destroyed, ever. What's she doing commanding Stormtroopers on Snoke's ship (which we also have to assume is the flagship of the First Order), which must be an entirely different and gigantic detachment?

[CyberCubed]

Finally saw the movie and really enjoyed it. A lot of stuff I didn't see coming, and the stuff they did do (or didn't?) actually made me interested. Some thoughts:

- I liked Rey a lot more in this movie than TFA. She seems like she's actually struggling now, and the Rey/Kylo Ren dynamic was actually good this time. It kept me guessing throughout the whole movie how it would go, if Rey would "turn to the dark side" if Kylo Ren would be "redeemed" it was all well done. Every scene between the two had me interested.

- Finn was fine. He basically served his purpose as a support character. Same for Poe really, there's not much of their roles you can complain about since they're just basically used as typical heroes/fighter pilots. I thought they both had decent moments.

- That being said I didn't care for Rose at all...was that the name of the Asian girl? She just seemed...meh. I wouldn't have cared if she died at the end.

- I also didn't care for the purple haired lady, but I guess she served her purpose in the film by the end.

- Luke was great...but yeah...I wish he did more. He had about one or two moments of awesome...but it wasn't enough. That being said I still expect him to be in Episode 9 in some form.

- I liked Leia well enough. As her final film, it's decent for her to go out on.


For some of the big spoilers:

Spoiler:

I LOVE the fact that Snoke and Phasma died. LOVED. I didn't think much of them in the first movie, so I'm glad they didn't just keep them around to try and make them interesting and killed them off. Who cares who Snoke is? You'll probably find out in some crappy comic or novel anyway.
I was hoping the other red-haired main general would die too, because he's bland as hell, but sadly he's still around.

Yoda appearing was cool and unexpected. I like the fact that he and Luke kept in contact over 50 years or whatever it is. Leia's moment surviving in space was a bit odd but I didn't care too much.

The final scene with the slave kid was dumb as hell, lol.

Last but not least...I actually like Kylo Ren now. The first movie I was still undecided about him, but knowing he really is the main villain now has kept me intrigued.

As for Rey's parents, as said, I'm fine with her not being related to anyone important.

I'll give it an 8/10, definitely the best movie since the original trilogy.

[victory_angel]

I saw Last Jedi yesterday afternoon

I have to say I enjoyed it. I do admit I did have some problems with is such as how it dragged. I also didn’t like the “I’m Super Leia” moment. I mean I know she is force sensitive, but at the same time it just felt rediculous to have her get sucked into the void of space and then use her force sensitivity to reel herself back in.


The death of Snoke was surprising, but I don’t really know how to feel about it. I find having him die this soon in the story feels like it cheapens his character. Because we didn’t really have a chance to know him or understand who he was as a villain.

But perhaps there is a point to his demise.

Take Palpatine AKA Darth Sidious, we don’t really know him very well in the trillogy either. He is just an intimidaiting figure that controls Vador’s leash. And in the end of the trillogy he goads Luke into striking him down so that he could fulfill his destiny of joining the Dark Side. Simply because Luke was angry and any rash action he took right then would be in anger.

Darth Sidus knew that sooner or later one day Vador would try to kill him. He wasn’t so arrogant as to assume that wouldn’t happen. This concept is actually mentioned in the Dark Lords of the Sith Novel which is one of the novelizations that is Cannon with the franchise.

"We are all of us, always being tested, my friend. Tests make us stronger, and strength is power, and power is the point. We must pass all the tests we face… Or die in the effort."
―Palpatine to Darth Vader


Snoke gave me the impression that since he had control of Kylo’s mind, he felt he had all the cards in the deck. And that arrogance lead to his down fall, that is unless he was banking on Kylo to betray him. Because even after he kills Snoke, he still learns nothing.

Instead his attitude was “I don’t care about the light side or the dark side. So lets destroy everything and create a new universe from the ashes.”

While Ray could see the folly in his planning “If you destroy everything, then there will be nothing left but chaos. The only way the world can be reborn is to guide and protect what is still fighting to survive.”

But this could have been Snoke’s plan all along as he does point out that Kylo is conflicted and that conflict was making him weak. So he creates a connection between Kylo and Ray so he could see what direction that Kylo could be pushed towards.

Who knows perhaps we could see the Sith version of a Force Ghost.

Phasma was also disappointing, the fight with her and Fin. But her character is pointless on a grandscale of the story. Because we never really get to know about her as a villain other then her obviously being dedicated to the first order. We only see a small glimpse of the person behind her mask before she supposedly dies. We could see her in the next installment, but I think it is very likely she is dead since the armor she is wearing would have cooked her alive just falling into that inferno. We could still be surprised.

As for Ray’s parentage. It is possible for force aware Children to be born to non-force aware families. This is the red harring they seem to be feeding us for now and Ray’s parentage would be revealed in the next episode. And this was mearly a ploy from Kylo to get Ray to join his cause.

The “You are no one, you were born from nothing, your parents were nothing. But join me and you will become somebody”

And even if it’s true that her parentage was just as Kylo said. This wouldn’t be the first time a force-sensitive person was born from non-force sensitive parents.

In the original trillogy and prequils did have both have the argument for Luke and Anakin that they were too old to receive the training. The Jedi often would find and acquire force-sensitive youngsters not long after they were born.

The force or the whills as it is also known is it’s own entity and will awaken in whomever it feels worthy.

Yoda also agrees with Luke that the time has come for the Jedi to end, or rather the Jedi as they know them to end. But not the Jedi in and of themselves.

I don’t recall what continuity this is from, though I do think it may have been from Knights of the Old Republic. But originally the Jedi were not entirely for the light side or dark side. Instead they maintained a nutral mind set on the two forces. When one began to lean in the direction of one side of the force, he was instructed to meditate on the other side of the force until they glanced themselves out.

The Jedi as we know them in the series largly followed a path of the light and all that was good. Following an event called “The Hundred Years of Darkeness” which saw rise to the Sith order.

Because the Jedi as they are in the films largely followed a path of light they were blinded by that side of the force. And that was what I felt was symbolic of Yoda burning the temple and the sacred texts. But through Rey the Jedi could have a rebirth of who they once were.

"First comes the day
Then comes the night.
After the darkness
Shines through the light.
The difference, they say,
Is only made right
By the resolving of gray
Through refined Jedi sight."
―Journal of the Whills

[Vegita-San]

Apparently Rian was writing this movie without having fully seen the finished force awakens movie. How does that even happen?

All he problably had was the bible description of the characters from the first movie to go on. which is why almost nothing got addressed. and it feels like a soft reboot reboot.

where is the quality control?

[Sumac]

The argument about Palpatine being nobody in OT doesn't real hold up, when it comes to Snoke.

The thing is, when OT was released it was clear cut - good rebels, bad empire. Viewers didn't need additional information, it was just what it was.

Now, however, we have OT, PT and 2 parts out of ST. Star Wars is not any longer "thing in itself". We have lots and lots of story and having important characters out of nowhere looks sloppy and lazy.

We have a backstory for ST in form of OT and having Snoke emulating Palpatine, being important character out of nowhere and with no backstory is no longer works. We know how Empire had fallen, we know how First Order was formed more or less, we know about political situation in the SW universe and having such important player as Snoke coming out of nowhere is just senseless.

I understand their desire to emulate OT, but the times have changed and some of those decisions no longer make any sense.

[Spike Spiegel]

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Apparently Rian was writing this movie without having fully seen the finished force awakens movie. How does that even happen?

All he problably had was the bible description of the characters from the first movie to go on. which is why almost nothing got addressed. and it feels like a soft reboot reboot.

where is the quality control?

None. Disney just wants to churn this cow yearly, so everything gotta be rushed out of the door instantly.

The result: a messy film full of plot holes & retconning with unclear path/stories/characteristics for the characters.

I still love this film but I can also admit that it is very flawed and a tragedy. It's a pity because Star Wars already have an A list of actors ready to commit 100% on their roles. Such wasted potential.

[RaphaelinSTL]

Saw this last night and left the theater feeling immensely drained by it's unnecessary length ... but also disappointed there was way too much fat on the steak.

I'm not a hardcore Star Wars fan, but I enjoyed the first trilogy fine and had a great time with the Force Awakens. This movie felt like a short story that I was required to read but it took me two and a half hours because I kept getting distracted.

I don't know ... maybe these just aren't for me in the long run.

[NinjaPug]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Apparently Rian was writing this movie without having fully seen the finished force awakens movie. How does that even happen?

All he problably had was the bible description of the characters from the first movie to go on. which is why almost nothing got addressed. and it feels like a soft reboot reboot.

where is the quality control?

Because he started writing it while they were filming. TLJ was supposed to be released in May 2017.

[newfan]

Wasn't a lot of this movie re-written before they started shooting? I read, to bring it back to the central characters.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by newfan

Wasn't a lot of this movie re-written before they started shooting? I read, to bring it back to the central characters.

I've never read that, ever.

[newfan]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I've never read that, ever.

I can't remember where I read it now, maybe I misinterpreted it but I'm sure I read there was some re-writing.. (I incorrectly used the word 'most')

Edit: Just searched it, seems that they were going to/considering doing a final re-write to cut the roles of 2 new characters down so that they can Focus on Rey, Poe etc before bringing new ones in... so not much then if they did do it.