Your religious views and positions on matters such as God and the meaning of life?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Back to jaded cynicism and sarcasm, I see. It never fails. A very nihilistic worldview, with no room for mystey or the unexplained to expand said view. A pity. Life IS mystery- it is beyond the simple mechanics of atom and cell and sinew, it is also pure energy contained and harnessed to create thought and emotion- something science ALONE still cannot explain nor understand fully- and likely never will. What makes one mind different from any other? It's not the physical neurons. They are simply conduits. They direct the impulses along paths through the brain, nothing more. So what IS thought and memory, then? I'll tell you; it is the essence of Spirit. Spirit is what truly makes us who we are as individuals, not just our genes. Those genes are the building blocks, to be sure, but without our minds, we are still just a collection of parts cobbled together.

You seem to dismiss anything you can't explain or understand as childish, but the truth is you have only just scratched the surface of what IS. You are right about one thing- everything IS connected, and all of the power of creation exists within a seed, or an egg, or an unborn child. Each has within it all that it will ever need to become what it is meant to be, whether that be bird, human, or rosebush. Each grows and changes in so many ways, yet still is exactly what it was intended to be by its genes. And you don't see the wonder inherent in the system? I just can't even imagine what it must be like to live in your head. Rather dull and depressing, I'm sure. You've lost all the joy and mystery in life, and replaced it with hollow and empty mechanical processes. How sad. You seem about as close to an emotionless shell as a person can get, dependant entirely on the empty box of logic and cold reason without dreams or hope. Pandora wants her box back, friend.

Here's a thought for you to chew on- those without something to give their lives meaning and purpose are more likely to become suicidal and chronically depressed. Seems that when life is pointless, people tend not to feel inclined to continue it. But that's just an observation.

You say you have accepted a meaningless existance? Well, I hope you have something worth living for. I certainly do, and it has nothing to do with whether or not my mind will continue as part of the universe as a conscious being. When I die, my body will return to its components, and will thus continue the cycle of all matter and energy. Nothing lost or destroyed, only the form changes. Natural and simple. What the form(s) will be, I neither know, nor care. That part is unimportant. Could be in a cat, or a stormcloud, or a tree. Or even the person who becomes President after I am gone. I'd like to think some part of DaVinci or Socrates is in ALL of us, which is actually kind of comforting to think that they are still with us in some way. Atomic immortality!

For the record, you throw words like "magic" around without any idea what they truly mean. Magic(k- this not the same thing as David Copperfield's stage tricks) is just another word for what we do not yet understand about nature and physics. It is both real and tangible, and opperates under the same rules as the rest of the universe. It is causality by design. One thing begets another, through chain of effect. Like a stone creating ripples in water. The exact end result might be unknown, but the path is clear if one knows what to look for. The pattern changes, but the rules of it remain constant. You of all people should be able to appreciate that.

[plastroncafe]

One of the many things that drove me away from the Catholic church was the concept of a capricious monotheistic god.
That the divine fell victim to human emotional states always seemed far better suited to polytheistic religions.

If there's only one Supreme Being what does that Supreme Being have to be envious about?
What would it have an ego in need of stroking?

I could more easily get behind the concept of an indifferent creator, or even just slapping the name god onto the laws of physics.

But that's me.

[Prowler]

Wow this thread is still around? And I have like 14 posts in it?

Well, I'm not gonna touch the argument in the last few pages, but I must say, sometimes I envy believers. Must be nice believing in a nice afterlife and believing the loved ones of yours who die are going off to a better place. I can't bring myself to believe that, though.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Wow this thread is still around? And I have like 14 posts in it?

Well, I'm not gonna touch the argument in the last few pages, but I must say, sometimes I envy believers. Must be nice believing in a nice afterlife and believing the loved ones of yours who die are going off to a better place. I can't bring myself to believe that, though.

RIGHT?!
I just...it must be so comforting to just instinctively see order and purpose in all things.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

RIGHT?!
I just...it must be so comforting to just instinctively see order and purpose in all things.

As someone with non-religious parents and thus never raised with religion or even baptised I've always struggled at understanding these things.

I've read descriptions of people who were clinically dead for a few minutes or in a coma... they kind of match my mental image of what death looks like. basically you just like there sleeping with no dreaming, but in peace nevertheless. I guess you truly do rest in peace when you die.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Prowler

As someone with non-religious parents and thus never raised with religion or even baptised I've always struggled at understanding these things.

I've read descriptions of people who were clinically dead for a few minutes or in a coma... they kind of match my mental image of what death looks like. basically you just like there sleeping with no dreaming, but in peace nevertheless. I guess you truly do rest in peace when you die.

I won't lie, I had my first existential death related crisis when I hit my last milestone birthday. Embarrassingly enough, it happened on the bus.

I talked myself down from it by reminding myself that I don't remember what life was like before I was born. There just wasn't me, and then there was.
I can't help but think death isn't a similar experience.
Only, you know, in reverse.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

I won't lie, I had my first existential death related crisis when I hit my last milestone birthday. Embarrassingly enough, it happened on the bus.

I talked myself down from it by reminding myself that I don't remember what life was like before I was born. There just wasn't me, and then there was.
I can't help but think death isn't a similar experience.
Only, you know, in reverse.

My earliest life memory is from when I was... 3-4 years old? It's me sitting next to my brother on his bed playing SNES Star Fox. The game came out in June 1993 in Europe, so it must have been around 1993-1994 that I was playing it for the first time, then.

I don't think I remember anything before that.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Wow this thread is still around? And I have like 14 posts in it?

Well, I'm not gonna touch the argument in the last few pages, but I must say, sometimes I envy believers. Must be nice believing in a nice afterlife and believing the loved ones of yours who die are going off to a better place. I can't bring myself to believe that, though.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

RIGHT?!
I just...it must be so comforting to just instinctively see order and purpose in all things.

There's a catch to it however, when believers believe in uncomfortable things like eternal damnation, and God causing all wordly pain to exist due to the mistake of two people.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

There's a catch to it however, when believers believe in uncomfortable things like eternal damnation and the cause of all worldly pain today being due to the mistake of two people

I suppose the lack of an afterlife could convince people to value their lives on Earth more, though.

How do Christians and Muslims imagine heaven/paradise to look like, anyway? What does one do there? I mean, if I died tomorrow and went to heaven, would I get a free house and play games all day without worrying about bills or finding a job?

[newfan]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

There's a catch to it however, when believers believe in uncomfortable things like eternal damnation, and God causing all wordly pain to exist due to the mistake of two people.

There was someone who would sometimes remind me that I will be going to hell for not being Christian, I realise that in their mind they were trying to do me a favour.
Edit: To note, I am talking about an experience with one person, not taking a view of Christians in general in case that came across offensively.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by newfan

There was someone who would sometimes remind me that I will be going to hell for not being Christian.

No one has ever told me that, tbh. In fact, I don't remember the last time someone asked me anything about my religious beliefs or lack of. I have no idea what most people I know irl believe in either.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by newfan

There was someone who would sometimes remind me that I will be going to hell for not being Christian, I realise that in their mind they were trying to do me a favour but I wasn't going to just make myself follow something that I just don't feel is for me.

Originally Posted by Prowler

No one has ever told me that, tbh. In fact, I don't remember the last time someone asked me anything about my religious beliefs or lack of. I have no idea what most people I know irl believe in either.

I've had occassional old men handing out leaflets on the street tell me "You're going da hell!" for not believing in the doctrine in the trinity but its best not to take it personally. Just smile and wave as everyone will believe, what they will believe.

[Prowler]

I've honestly stopped breaking my head open thinking about the purpose of life and existence. For all I know and care, the universe and life just exist for the sake of it and that's it. So let's just have fun while we're still alive and healthy.

[plastroncafe]

When people offer me literature, especially if it's of the Sinners In the Hands Of An Angry God type of literature, I just hold up a hand and say:

No thanks. Godless Sodomite.

And keep walking.

[Prowler]

I wonder if one day mankind will stop fully believing in gods and religion. Perhaps our technology will eventually reach the point where it can tell us what truly happens when we die and if there are gods or not.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Prowler

I wonder if one day mankind will stop fully believing in gods and religion. Perhaps our technology will eventually reach the point where it can tell us what truly happens when we die and if there are gods or not.

Even when I used to be an Atheist, I thought this would never happen since in that worldview, there is a pretty strong case for religion being evolutionarily ingrained into humans.

As a believer though, I think complete non-belief is possible due to human behaviour in my religion being governed my an immaterial soul with free will rather than genes subject to determinism/cause and effect.

[plastroncafe]

The God Gene (wikipedia)

If true, we won't see the end of faith-based religion until this gene is not selected for. And even then, there's nothing saying another one couldn't mutate into circulation.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Even when I used to be an Atheist, I thought this would never happen since in that worldview, there is a pretty strong case for religion being evolutionarily ingrained into humans.

No one can tell the future and there's more non-religious people these days than ever in history. Especially in developed nations. So who knows if most people in the world won't eventually become godless in a few centuries.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

One can still be spiritual without a specific deity, though. In my faith, we acknowledge the existence/validity of all gods, no matter the names and religions behind them. All gods are one, as we say. Many faces, many names, but all are aspects of the divinity in all things.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I think it's interesting to postulate that the universe is an infinite loop of Big Bang => Universe Expansion => Universe Retraction => Big Bang.

Infinite. Over and over again. Forever. No beginning, no end.

Originally Posted by Sumac

This is where I am.
Endless cycle of recycling and repetition. Energy that never ends. Movement that never stops.

Like the concept of infinity itself, it's pretty hard for people to wrap their heads around. "But... what came BEFORE it? How did it BEGIN?"

Maybe nothing came before it. Maybe it never began. Maybe it's just always been and will always be.