Official Justice League Movie

[Sumac]

Consistency doesn't mean quality.
Especially when it comes to Snyder.

Sucker Punch and BVS are very consistent in their vision, but I hardly can call them good movies.

[AquaParade]

Yeah, but I’d argue BvS is twice as good as JL.

For all the flaws of BvS.... it’s an actual vision. Like a piece of art being driven by a man with passion for the product. It actually has great visuals and music if nothing else.

JL is simply the studio trying to Frankenstein a bunch of unfinished scenes into a sterile, marketable product. I can’t derive an iota of entertainment from it because it just reeks of plastic. I’d trade it all for another “warehouse scene”.

[Leo656]

Aqua, stuff like this is why I dread even the good news. It only leads to more circle-jerking from people who don't understand or care that taste is subjective.

On every article I've seen, any time anyone has the audacity to say that they like anything Zack ever did, they're gang-jumped and called names and told they should stifle and any number of other things. All it does is reinforce the idea that, "Unless you agree with consensus, keep your mouth shut." Things should never be that way, but they are that way.

Sure, everyone gets an opinion, but far too often people use that "power" for no reason other than to sow discord. We've all been guilty of it; I personally am trying to be better in my old age. I sincerely hope that I never reach a point where my life is so empty, that I feel compelled to write lengthy dissertations and snappy zingers every time I see someone who enjoys something I claim not to care about (yet can never, EVER resist commenting on).

Like I could easily, easily spend time sh*tting up the "Rise of TMNT" section and writing essays about which MCU films I'd rather gargle bleach than ever watch again, but what's the f*cking point? Like seriously. What kind of person has that compulsion and decides to give in to it at every available opportunity?

It would be a pretty wonderful thing if, regardless of topic, people who professed not to care about something actually went about Not Caring About It in practice. Most people's "two cents" on the subject is like twenty bucks by now. It's been said. Nobody's gonna change anyone else's opinion. Can people who don't like this stuff and "don't care" simply walk away from the table and go be productive elsewhere, finally?

I know the answer already, it's just f*cking stupid. The same people who "don't care" are gonna hate-watch the director's cut anyway just so they can rant about how "It's just what I expected to be." Yeah, we know, you came to that conclusion like eight years ago before the movie even existed as an idea. At some point, people need to simply occupy themselves with something else. "I watched this movie knowing I was gonna hate it... NOW listen to me give you 87 reasons why I hated it!" Like f*ck, man, go live your life, already.

You know it's coming, too. It would almost be amusing if it weren't so damn irritating, not to mention never-ending.

[ZariusTwo]

I'll be interested in the fan-edits that come out of it, trying to find some balance between the softer touch of Whedon with the hardened edge of Snyder. They'll be some nifty experiments for sure.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

For all the flaws of BvS.... it’s an actual vision. Like a piece of art being driven by a man with passion for the product. It actually has great visuals and music if nothing else.

JL is simply the studio trying to Frankenstein a bunch of unfinished scenes into a sterile, marketable product. I can’t derive an iota of entertainment from it because it just reeks of plastic. I’d trade it all for another “warehouse scene”.

What you said, Aqua.

I enjoyed Batman V Superman, problems aside. But I was bored the entire time I watched Justice League in theaters. BORED.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been bored in a theater. The fact that one of them involved Batman just blows my mind.

[sdp]

I love Snyder's style, it's the story where the movie suffers but I'm a fan of everything else.

[Leo656]

The "problem " to me with Zack's work is that he sits down and writes these six-hour movies that he already knows are gonna get cut in half, and then when you do that it's a bit less coherent. I've liked everything I've seen of his, but the director's cuts are always far superior and the theatrical cuts are borderline wastes of time. The theatrical cut of BvS was such a mess, with entire plot points missing and scenes moved around with no care for where they fit, but again, that's the studio. It's like Zack's the movie version of Grant Morrison; he gets engrossed in big huge ideas that are never going to be able to fit within the constraints of the medium he's working in but when you whittle them down they suffer. I'm not sure why he operates that way, since he knows that four and six-hour movies don't work, but he admits that's his process. I mean I kinda do get it, but he'd probably be better served if he just actually set out to write standard length films, not gigantic ones that are only gonna be cut in half later on.

Having re-watched JL not long ago, I maintain that it's not as bad as people say it is, and frankly I think it's "harmless" on its own and as a very safe, generic, stand-alone piece of super-hero fiction it's even pretty decent. But it's not a good follow-up to the previous films AND it's an absolute Frankenstein of a movie. It would be like Axl Rose and Lady Gaga trying to start a band; you can't approach a project from such polar opposite sensibilities and come up with anything coherent.

In a vacuum, it's "fine", but it wasn't created to be seen in a vacuum. But that's really the only way it "works". Like I've done countless MoS/BvS back-to-back viewings but I rarely put JL on at the end to cap it. It just doesn't fit.

My opinions on Joss Whedon are also pretty much how everyone feels about Zack, just from the complete opposite direction. Jokes everywhere. No-stakes "action". One-dimensional characters that are little more than archetypes, or at least defined within the story by singular and simplified character traits. Fan-wank out the ass. It's nothing new, either, I have never been a fan of his stuff. I liked the first two Avengers movies for the most part but didn't love either one, and watching what he brought to the table on JL made me firmly decide, "I just don't like this guy's work very much." I've seen a fair bit of his work and I can't say I enjoy much of it. Except for the original Buffy movie, which is not great but at least it was made before Joss went and fell in love with himself; it's a dumb premise, presented "dumbly". I respect that, whereas I thought that what I'd seen of the show to be pretentious as hell. Joss writes in a way that... Like, okay, if you tell a bad or corny joke, it's still corny even if you wink at me. Like okay, I get that you get that it's corny on purpose, but I really wish you wouldn't do that, period. And he does that in everything.

Flash falling on top of Diana's boobs. Aquaman's "We're all gonna die" speech played for a gag. The little girl is gonna try and fight the killer aliens with bug spray. "What is brunch?" It's like dude, please just stop with this kinda thing. Trying to be "cute" but failing is agonizing to watch. But like I said, I just don't like his style.

It probably sounds like I hate the JL movie, but I don't. I simply feel that it has little substance outside of being a momentary confection, and the fact that it was marketed on lies infuriates me. I had one friend almost back out of seeing it in theaters with me because they heard all the Lois and Clark stuff from the trailers was deleted, like the engagement ring stuff. I'll forever maintain that it's unethical to put out a collective half hour's worth of footage on display, then include NONE of it in the actual movie. That right there is all the reason anyone needs to advocate for the director's cut: Just to finally see what they advertised before they bait-and-switched everyone.

Anyone disinterested can simply avoid it. And of course anyone who likes the theatrical cut of JL can keep it. It's not a travesty or anything. It's just extremely generic. For me, though, it's NOT "the real movie", and I was always very interested in seeing The Real Movie. And if it does come out, I most likely won't ever watch the theatrical cut again. It would depend.

It's like, I don't watch the theatrical cut of Superman II anymore, because aside from being inferior to the Donner Cut (obvious warts aside), it's not the "real" movie. So I just don't have any use for it. Same here. I think JL is better than people say but I don't see myself watching it again once the real movie exists as more than an idea. But that's me.

[ZariusTwo]

It's happening. HBO Max. 2021.


https://twitter.com/HBOMaxPR/status/1263169690475671553

[Leo656]

Huh. Imagine that.

2021, huh? Better than never, but... Makes you wonder. Obviously they're going to polish it up a bit between now and then, but one wonders how much.

I also wish they would do a disc release after it debuts on Max, but this is already a lot to receive. Guess I can always burn a copy if I absolutely have to.

Whooo. Neat.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Huh. Imagine that.

2021, huh? Better than never, but... Makes you wonder. Obviously they're going to polish it up a bit between now and then, but one wonders how much.

They probably didn't want to do any release that had potential to "confuse the audience" regarding their work-in-progress cinematic franchise. I'm guessing the alternate cut will be the final nail in its coffin.

[Diorm]

IF they do a disc version, it's gonna take a really long time because it's one of the things that will make people pay for HBO Max.
And it's sad.

[Leo656]

Calling it a "work in progress" is being quite generous, sir.

WB remains, collectively, the human equivalent of monkeys throwing sh*t at the wall. That's not going to change no matter what they do or don't do with this. 90% of their announced DC films are still never coming out and the ones that do will remain completely overreactionary and dependent solely on marketing trends that they jumped onto right as they were fading.

At least now, they can say they listen to their audience once in a while, even if it's a half-truth at best.

But no, this project wouldn't confuse anything, any moreso than what WB themselves have already done or continue to do. Some people still think Phoenix is gonna cameo in "The Batman". That's all on WB and their never-ending quest to f*ck things to death.

Originally Posted by Diorm

IF they do a disc version, it's gonna take a really long time because it's one of the things that will make people pay for HBO Max.
And it's sad.

I agree, that's why I'm not counting on it. It wouldn't make much business sense to put out a disc when it's the sole big "get" for their paid subscription service. That said, other stuff eventually comes out on disc even if it's way later on. It's not more unlikely than THIS situation, is it? So I'll remain cautiously optimistic while not entirely hopeful.

I just know my wife and I are gonna want to watch it numerous times in the years to come, so a disc would be convenient. This is one case where I'm fine with obtaining a pirated copy in the absence of an official release. And we do plan to pay for this. We absolutely will get HBO Max for this one thing even if we don't keep it. We've been waiting too long to not see it.

Not my preferred situation of release but I'll take it.

[AquaParade]

I think current WB/DC often, unfairly gets the rep of past "WB/DC" around here.

All that stuff they were throwing at the wall was the old guard (Batwoman, two separate Joker movies, two separate Harley movies, Cyborg movie, Flashpoint, on and on...). It was like a civil war over there or something. They've been replaced and the WB/DC team have been pretty rock-solid ever since by apparently focusing on a few projects at a time and not meddling in them once they have been greenlit.

This Snyder-Cut would likely never happen under the old crew. Whoever took over probably saw how gross of a situation the previous team had made of JL and decided to make good on it.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

This Snyder-Cut would likely never happen under the old crew. Whoever took over probably saw how gross of a situation the previous team had made of JL and decided to make good on it.

I definitely agree with that much. I so much as said exactly the same to my wife right before you posted it. Two years ago, this was impossible, so obviously a lot has changed.

I'm a Big Picture guy, though. WB's general incompetence, especially with their DC properties, spans decades and is legendary. My official take is that any success they achieve is by accident. They've proven time and time again that when they actually try to succeed, they only screw it up. Doesn't matter whose name is on the Big Desk, they're a bunch of overreacting corporate know-nothings who make decisions based on chasing trends and sales panic.

It'll take more than one belated act of goodwill to get me to change my opinion on WB Corporate. Even this situation wasn't likely to happen, until all of Hollywood shut down and left WB scrambling for a Killer App for their streaming service nobody wants. This is great news, believe me, as I doubt anyone wants to see this movie more than I do. But it was still not a decision made from altruism, but from panic and self-preservation. It's not like they suddenly care about "Creators' rights" or artistic integrity or anything, they're just being pragmatic.

I mean, we'll see. Anything is possible. Hell, the dimmest and faintest of whispers floating around go so far as to say people high-up in WB might - might - even try and pull the nose up on this whole entire thing if the reaction to the Snyder Cut is extremely positive. Absolutely anything is possible, and stranger, more "impossible" things have happened. But for my money, I'd settle for WB getting three things right in a row before I decide they finally know what they're doing.

But then I'm an overwhelmingly cynical person. For now, I'll take this and be happy with it. It's literally the only thing they're putting out that I care about. After that, I don't care what they do.

[AquaParade]

I hear ya. I adore a good handful of their DC movies, which I guess was enough to win me over, generally speaking. But they make plenty of choices that don't gel with me and I'm sure you have your reasons.

Btw, this is a good read for anyone curious to hear more. They interview Zack.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...-thing-1295102

"It will be an entirely new thing, and, especially talking to those who have seen the released movie, a new experience apart from that movie," Zack Snyder tells The Hollywood Reporter, noting that, to this day, he has not watched the version released in theaters.

"You probably saw one-fourth of what I did," the director notes, basing his judgment on what has been shared with him of Whedon's version.

If we are going to get 2-3 hours of new footage that is on par with the quality of Man of Steel/BvS, I'll be feeling pretty spoiled. Again, those aren't perfect films to me, but I really enjoy them.

[Leo656]

As do I, brother. Their successes rest in my heart forever and those films have brought me immense and untold joy. They're just inconsistent as f*ck, and that's frustrating because when they put out a great movie, it's a Great Movie. In my opinion, anyway.

This film, incomplete or not, will be "More of what I already loved" so I have nothing but love for 'em on finally doing the right thing. I just wish they weren't so chronically mismanaged as a general rule, that's all. Makes it hard to root for 'em. But they've definitely given me a lot to be happy about, too.

[AquaParade]

More choice quotes. Can you believe this stuff?

The Snyders put together a presentation and, in early February, invited a select group of executives from Warner Bros., HBO Max and DC to their house in Pasadena to screen Zack's little-seen version that was shown in black and white. The number of executives in the room — there were more than a dozen in attendance, ranging from Warners' Emmerich, Carolyn Blackwood, and Walter Hamada to HBO Max's Kevin Reilly, Sarah Aubrey and Sandra Dewey to DC's Jim Lee — showed the importance of the potentially extensive undertaking. Heads of physical production and business affairs were there to assess what needed to be done and how much it would cost. At his presentation after the screening, Snyder outlined ideas for not just releasing the cut but the concept of episodes and cliffhangers.

The executives left the meeting pumped.

I always like to think of how these types of surprises will effect the rest of the industry. With that in mind, wouldn't be interesting if this were to begin a trend of director cut's we never thought we'd see being released? If it makes a big splash, that's a possibility.

Still wanting to see that Steve Barron TMNT cut. Sounds like the #ReleasetheSnydercut crew are gearing up for David Ayer's Suicide Squad next. Interesting indeed.

[Autbot_Benz]

after nearly falling asleep watching the 3 hour Batman V Superman dawn of Martha cut. Id rather pour bleach over my eyes than watch a 2-4 hour pretentious Snyder cut of Justice League

[Leo656]

So go watch cartoons.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I am down for this. Absolutely.

Zack Snyder can do a lot of wrong in my book, but Joss Whedon can practically do no right at all.