Another movie from Platinum Dunes in the works - new writer hired

[AquaParade]

Fun thread.

Leo, I agree with you to a great extent and enjoyed reading yours and everyone else's posts. I sort of think your cynicism-knob got stuck on overdrive, at least in comparison to my own perspective.

Like you said, that is a "dark future" but not the only possibly outcome in my mind. Actually, we seem to have already arrived there, by your standards, because the toys are pretty damn great but there's not much else going on right now. The Last Ronin is something special for old fans, but overall it's pretty quiet out there, and honestly, not so bad. I like the few treats we get, and I keep my eyes open for a lucky roll of the dice that leads to a great Netflix series, that, like Leo said, is mature enough to represent the best of the franchise. I still think that's possible. My typical argument being that crazier things happen in the entertainment business all the time.

Hell, even He-Man, who we compared the turtles dark future to, has an upcoming Netflix series by Kevin Smith. It could be trash fire, but that's a somewhat ambitious attempt for such a forgotten franchise. If He-Man can get there, TMNT has certainly stoked enough flames to keep the possibilities ever so slightly open for a good while to come.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

Ciro Nieli was an older fan, presumably an original turtle fan during turtlemania in the 90's and look at the power he had with 2K12. Look what he did with that show. He could have easily gave us an "evolution" of the 2003 show... brought it a step up. But no, it was cartoony in the negative sense of the word and the show's humor was juvenile and NOT aimed at Leo, myself or many other "old" fans. Ciro could have turned the franchise towards what it currently needs to be but he didn't do that. Why? I have a hard time believing Nick got in his way that much.

If I recall, Ciro was more of a fan of the Mirage comics and wasn't too huge on FW.

While 2012 has it's rather strange moments, it's actually good. It has a lot of aspects that remind me of the 2003 series while still different enough to be it's own thing. The show can get really dark, let alone creepy thanks to Ciro and Brandon's love for horror. You might like it despite its flaws.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

If I recall, Ciro was more of a fan of the Mirage comics and wasn't too huge on FW.

While 2012 has it's rather strange moments, it's actually good. I'd say it's like a slightly lighter but still dark version of the 2003 series while still different enough to be it's own thing. The show can get really dark, let alone creepy thanks to Ciro and Brandon's love for horror. You might like it despite its flaws.

Am I missing something? I don't understand how someone who loves Mirage and horror stuff could have made that show. I watched the complete first and second seasons and saw so many sight-gags and so much humor that it just didn't feel like a mature take. It was not made for anybody but very young people. Sorry, it just wasn't my bag, dude!

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

It was not made for anybody but very young people.

That's a matter of opinion, not fact.

[AquaParade]

I think the 2012 show is great as an "all-ages" TMNT product. It knocks it out of the park in that respect, and is pretty much what we should expect from a Nickelodeon cartoon.

The problem, as others have pointed out, is that there is nowhere for kids to go from there.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I think the 2012 show is great as an "all-ages" TMNT product. It knocks it out of the park in that respect, and is pretty much what we should expect from a Nickelodeon cartoon.

The problem, as others have pointed out, is that there is nowhere for kids to go from there.

If "all-ages" is a nice way of saying it's not meant for an older audience, then fine, I can accept that definition. Maybe then, what I mean when I say that something like 2K12 is only for very young people, is that it's a Nickelodeon cartoon... 2K12 has very little connection to its source material in terms of tone. Again, a deeper take on TMNT doesn't have to be a Mirage clone, but for so many fans to sit here and say that something like 2K12 (or a show like it) has any reverence for the same audience of TMNT fans that watch The Sopranos, slasher films or a Scorsese picture... I'm just not seeing the connection.

If it's not for children then there has to be some kind of care and reverence to the source material, like the 2003 series did. The exact problem WE are having is that when Rise of the TMNT was announced at comic-con, people older than 35 stood up and cheered for it. This is why the movie project (and every other attempt at a TMNT film) is going to be a disaster.

Leo mentioned evolving the brand... I will take it out on a similar limb... evolve the brand with the audience as they age or eventually your brand is going to die.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

Am I missing something? I don't understand how someone who loves Mirage and horror stuff could have made that show. I watched the complete first and second seasons and saw so many sight-gags and so much humor that it just didn't feel like a mature take. It was not made for anybody but very young people. Sorry, it just wasn't my bag, dude!

Media that are mature in tone can still have humour and jokes. It's all about the style of humour and how often it's in the show, not to mention how it's incorporated, in terms of placement and how it gels with the mature tone.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by Whatswiththeheadbands?

Media that are mature in tone can still have humour and jokes. It's all about the style of humour and how often it's in the show, not to mention how it's incorporated, in terms of placement and how it gels with the mature tone.

But what you quoted was in reference to 2K12. At what point was that show mature exactly? At what point did it approach a serious tone? Was there an episode I missed where the censors had a field day over drug references, sexual innuendo, over the top violence (all of these were present in Batman: the Animated Series, 90s X-men, 90's Spider-man shows and censors were going mad)?

All I ever saw was Mikey being childish, the terrible Donnie-April puppy dog romance/crush thing and character designs that were clearly made to be marketable to children.

I agree that humor can be incorporated into mature entertainment but they injected so much humor and so many jokes into this show that it was clearly, plain-as-day not made for a mature audience.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

But what you quoted was in reference to 2K12. At what point was that show mature exactly? At what point did it approach a serious tone? Was there an episode I missed where the censors had a field day over drug references, sexual innuendo, over the top violence (all of these were present in Batman: the Animated Series, 90s X-men, 90's Spider-man shows and censors were going mad)?

All I ever saw was Mikey being childish, the terrible Donnie-April puppy dog romance/crush thing and character designs that were clearly made to be marketable to children.

I agree that humor can be incorporated into mature entertainment but they injected so much humor and so many jokes into this show that it was clearly, plain-as-day not made for a mature audience.

My quote was about media in general. I've only seen A season and a half of the 2012 series (really not my thing).

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

But what you quoted was in reference to 2K12. At what point was that show mature exactly? At what point did it approach a serious tone? Was there an episode I missed where the censors had a field day over drug references, sexual innuendo, over the top violence (all of these were present in Batman: the Animated Series, 90s X-men, 90's Spider-man shows and censors were going mad)?

All I ever saw was Mikey being childish, the terrible Donnie-April puppy dog romance/crush thing and character designs that were clearly made to be marketable to children.

I agree that humor can be incorporated into mature entertainment but they injected so much humor and so many jokes into this show that it was clearly, plain-as-day not made for a mature audience.

There were quiet a lot of dark, mature moments in the 2012 show

Here some of them

A lot of on screen deaths
Zombie Shredder
Mutant Shredder
Splinter 'death' and The World getting destroyed in season 3 final
The Rat King's corpse
Splinter's permanent death in season 4 final
Kavaxas arc in season 5
Tiger Claw getting is arm cut off

[PizzaPower1985]

I had an epiphany when I was in the bath today, and I realized why I was destined... (oh never mind, stupid movie lines in my head again).

No, my "epiphany" was that a NEW turtle movie should be low budget. It should feature the turtles origin, rescuing and then meeting April, a confrontation with Casey Jones in the park, the Foot finding the sewer and capturing Splinter, a retreat to Northampton, a Return to New York and a rooftop battle with Shredder. Oh... wait (this sounds familiar)!

Well maybe a new turtle movie shouldn't be all that but MAYBE it should be low(er) budget. HEAR ME OUT... what if it was low(er) budget, and the filmmakers drew HEAVY inspiration from old Hong Kong movies from the 80's. What if the action was LOW KEY and the story was deep and introspective. What if the villain wasn't Shredder again but maybe a group of lesser baddies. I dunno. I think the TMNT movie I want... oh hell, I don't know what I want. Yeah, that's my problem. I DO KNOW that I don't want big, colorful, splashy, loud, boisterous action-comedy.

I want the opposite of big, colorful, splashy, loud, boisterous action-comedy.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

I had an epiphany when I was in the bath today, and I realized why I was destined... (oh never mind, stupid movie lines in my head again).

No, my "epiphany" was that a NEW turtle movie should be low budget. It should feature the turtles origin, rescuing and then meeting April, a confrontation with Casey Jones in the park, the Foot finding the sewer and capturing Splinter, a retreat to Northampton, a Return to New York and a rooftop battle with Shredder. Oh... wait (this sounds familiar)!

Well maybe a new turtle movie shouldn't be all that but MAYBE it should be low(er) budget. HEAR ME OUT... what if it was low(er) budget, and the filmmakers drew HEAVY inspiration from old Hong Kong movies from the 80's. What if the action was LOW KEY and the story was deep and introspective. What if the villain wasn't Shredder again but maybe a group of lesser baddies. I dunno. I think the TMNT movie I want... oh hell, I don't know what I want. Yeah, that's my problem. I DO KNOW that I don't want big, colorful, splashy, loud, boisterous action-comedy.

I want the opposite of big, colorful, splashy, loud, boisterous action-comedy.

How low of a budget would it need? The first PD movie had a budget of 125 - 150 million, with the sequel being roughly the same. I personally think about maybe 85 - 100 million

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by Whatswiththeheadbands?

How low of a budget would it need? The first PD movie had a budget of 125 - 150 million, with the sequel being roughly the same. I personally think about maybe 85 - 100 million

I'm wanting to get away from special effects as much as possible. The turtles obviously have to be CGI, with a proper design this time, but I'm thinking a practical effects film with CG turtles should cost no more than 75 million, maybe a hundred mill. IF we wanna be generous.

I don't know. Obviously, I'm not in charge and the prevailing film will probably be a cartoony, humorous bombastic puddle of vomit soaked, maggot-ridden diarrhea like last time.

I just think elements that need to be there are:

1) Dark, seedy, rainy, decrepit New York.
2) CGI Turtles
3) practical, professional stunts and fight choreography
4) A deep/introspective, compelling and DELIBERATELY paced plot
5) An attempt to pull back from the sillier elements of the franchise.

[AquaParade]

I'm all for slashing the budget. Movies like this have become way too reliant on computer animated special effects. Marvel really goes all out and makes it work in their favor when it comes to spectacles like Infinity War & Endgame, but generally speaking, I'm completely over it.

I'm craving practical effects and I'll take a pretty well choreographed fight involving rubber suits over more cgi any day of the week. It also forces the filmmakers to stay on their toes when it comes to creativity. Less is more. Just look at what Deadpool and Joker were able to accomplish with smaller budgets. Take those and bump them up slightly to pay for the suits and we are golden.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I'm all for slashing the budget. Movies like this have become way too reliant on computer animated special effects. Marvel really goes all out and makes it work in their favor when it comes to spectacles like Infinity War & Endgame, but generally speaking, I'm completely over it.

I'm craving practical effects and I'll take a pretty well choreographed fight involving rubber suits over more cgi any day of the week. It also forces the filmmakers to stay on their toes when it comes to creativity. Less is more. Just look at what Deadpool and Joker were able to accomplish with smaller budgets. Take those and bump them up slightly to pay for the suits and we are golden.

I completely agree and sympathize with everything you're thinking.... Suits tho? In an age of CG? Have radio-controlled animatronics improved that much since the days of Jim Henson/Neverending Story/TMNT 1990/Dark Crystal or otherwise?

I think CG could be used to great effect IF you only used it for the TMNT. Some of these turtle fan films have been amazing looking, even if they often don't tell any kind of story.

[IndigoErth]

I'm okay with it having some computer aided effects, but don't go overboard and avoid going to a too grossly unnatural level. A little to jazz it up a bit or do things that can't be safely done on set, fine. But avoid stereotypical "blockbuster" level effects.

ALSO, please stop designing these movies based on/starting with ONE action scene in the middle that the rest of the movie is built around. That method is not impressive and just seems to end up with weak results in the allover film.

Spoiler:

Although, don't hate me for it... something just crossed my mind -- and disclaimer **is not what I want for any Turtles film that is supposed to be any kind of real example of what TMNT should be** -- about the way any frigging thing possible can explode in the first cartoon... If someone is so desperate to turn the first cartoon into a film, then someday a comedy film in the style of some of the good parody movies could be kind of hilarious... esp if it includes the exploding toast I have a gif of. The total opposite direction, as absurd as possible on purpose.

ACTUALLY... I could TOTALLY see this as part of a crossover parody that plays on crazy (and/or exaggerated) stuff from multiple superhero properties. I kind of want that someday. lol But the exploding toast is a must.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I'm okay with it having some computer aided effects, but don't go overboard and avoid going to a too grossly unnatural level. A little to jazz it up a bit or do things that can't be safely done on set, fine. But avoid stereotypical "blockbuster" level effects.

ALSO, please stop designing these movies based on/starting with ONE action scene in the middle that the rest of the movie is built around. That method is not impressive and just seems to end up with weak results in the allover film.

Spoiler:

Although, don't hate me for it... something just crossed my mind -- and disclaimer **is not what I want for any Turtles film that is supposed to be any kind of real example of what TMNT should be** -- about the way any frigging thing possible can explode in the first cartoon... If someone is so desperate to turn the first cartoon into a film, then someday a comedy film in the style of some of the good parody movies could be kind of hilarious... esp if it includes the exploding toast I have a gif of. The total opposite direction, as absurd as possible on purpose.

ACTUALLY... I could TOTALLY see this as part of a crossover parody that plays on crazy (and/or exaggerated) stuff from multiple superhero properties. I kind of want that someday. lol But the exploding toast is a must.

Now, that's interesting. A complete comedy was the very first idea back when TMNT 1990 was being developed. Billy Crystal and several A list comedian film actors at the time were going to be painted green and wear cloth masks and such. I think Bill Murray was in the running for Leonardo... whoo. glad we dodged that bullet.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

A list comedian film actors at the time were going to be painted green and wear cloth masks and such. I think Bill Murray was in the running for Leonardo... whoo. glad we dodged that bullet.

Yeah, that's awful. No matter if something is serious or comedy, the Turtles need to be the Turtles. I'd have no interest in dumb humans dressed like that.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

I completely agree and sympathize with everything you're thinking.... Suits tho? In an age of CG? Have radio-controlled animatronics improved that much since the days of Jim Henson/Neverending Story/TMNT 1990/Dark Crystal or otherwise?

I think CG could be used to great effect IF you only used it for the TMNT. Some of these turtle fan films have been amazing looking, even if they often don't tell any kind of story.

I think you would certainly use computers to enhance the suits, but my thinking is that if you can even improve on those Henson suits by 10%, then you are already better off than you would be with the computer animation.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I think you would certainly use computers to enhance the suits, but my thinking is that if you can even improve on those Henson suits by 10%, then you are already better off than you would be with the computer animation.

Plus using the suits would physically hinder the actors compared to motion capture with CGI on top, forcing the film-makers to utilize proper martial arts for the action scenes

Limitation breeds creativity. That's why the last 2 movies were lazy and unoriginal