Mortal Kombat (2021)

[AquaParade]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TNLND7Hs818

You guys remember this fan-made short film/trailer?
I expected the movie to be more like this. They reinvent the lore a bit, but still feels like Mortal Kombat should.

I mean, I could pick it apart all day, but it's ultimately more interesting to me than what we got.
Still the fight scenes matter most at the end of the day.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TNLND7Hs818

You guys remember this fan-made short film/trailer?
I expected the movie to be more like this. They reinvent the lore a bit, but still feels like Mortal Kombat should.

I mean, I could pick it apart all day, but it's ultimately more interesting to me than what we got.
Still the fight scenes matter most at the end of the day.

It was cool, But not what I wanted Mortal Kombat to be, Because they went with a grounded approach that removed all the fantasy, and superpowers elements that makes Mortal Kombat.

Mortal Kombat is something that shouldn't be taken seriously, a game franchise known for being over the top and campy, and also funny. It needed to be that in the movies too. Doing a serious Mortal Kombat would just be too boring.

[AquaParade]

I understand where you are coming from, but I like the grounded approach for a few reasons.
It's a fresh look at the franchise, but it's also an easier sell to the audience, that allows you to sort of focus on other elements of the film, rather than waste time explaining and grounding Outworld.

Plus, there could still be room to inject a mix of fantasy and myth into the film. Like Outworld is a myth...or is it? There are pictures of Scoprion dead, so how is he alive?
Maybe don't even need the answers necessarily. Maybe that's an aspect that evolves as the franchise grows.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Sumac

They were official web-series, not fan films, though.
Though it easy to think otherwise, especially with a second season.

To get back to what were discussing one page back... some of these were pretty good in their own right.

Mortal Kombat: Rebirth - this is the one I mentioned with Michael Jai White. Basically a director's pitch to WB for a "real world" MK flick. The Director's pitch paid off....

Mortal Kombat: Legacy - the guy who pitched WB with Rebirth went on to do this one.

Mortal Kombat Legacy: Cyrax and Sektor - this one is amazing once the robot death match starts at about 7 minutes in.

Mortal Kombat: Legacy II - Trailer - the casting across this one is awesome....

[Leo656]

I make it a point never to agree with TigerClaw, but I kinda have to mostly-agree here.

I think that when you make ANYthing into a live-action film, a little bit of "grounding" is necessary and expected. But there are degrees. "Rebirth", I think, took it too far. It was alright as a fan project and a curiosity piece, but I definitely wouldn't want a whole movie series in that vein. It would remove too much of what makes Mortal Kombat what it is.

"Legacy" was a bit better and more balanced. I liked most of what I saw in that. The Raiden episode is one of my favorite things having to do with MK. And yes, that one is SUPER "grounded, gritty and Real" compared to most of the other episodes, but in the end it still left no doubt that the fantastical elements of the character were still intact.

It's kinda like the problem I and a lot of others have with Nolan's Batman movies (two of them I admittedly do love): As they went on, they were SO focused on being "REAL" that they abandoned a TON of what makes the Batman character and mythology "work". That's why as much as I love a lot of that stuff, I still prefer Snyder's take featuring Affleck, which did a much better job at blending the "Real" with the "Fantastic", which in turn made for the most comics-accurate Batman that's ever been done in live action (even though he wasn't the sole focus of the films he appeared in). Nolan's take is fine for what it is, and I'm glad those movies exist, but I wouldn't argue that was "The Right Way" to do Batman.

By that same logic, I wouldn't argue that "Rebirth" was "The Right Way" to do MK, or even an approach that would warrant a whole movie or series of movies in that style. And since that franchise doesn't have the luxury of guaranteed big-budget movie reboots every few years like something like Batman does, I'd much prefer that they take advantage of their comparatively limited opportunities to adapt the material and not try and reinvent the wheel. With something like Batman, if you don't like This Movie just wait 5 years and they'll do a different one in a new flavor. MK doesn't have that luxury; if they tinker with the formula and it doesn't hit, you might never get another one and if you do it'll take 25 years to come out.

I think if you polled the vast majority of MK fans about what kind of movie they want, they'd tell you to just Do It Like The Game and not overthink it. Nobody who isn't already a fan is gonna watch it anyway, so it serves to please the hardcores first and foremost. I definitely do think a movie should be a LITTLE more grounded than the games, which are pretty over-the-top, but I don't think the whole full-blown "Chris Nolan Approach" would be very satisfying in the long run. Not for this franchise.

[sdp]

Rebirth was an awful idea but I'm glad they didn't go for that route and even the director did Legacy 1 & 2 which were pretty cool on their own right. I personally prefer Legacy 1 but Legacy 2 is alright.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I make it a point never to agree with TigerClaw, but I kinda have to mostly-agree here.

Yeah... it's an instance where that Christopher Nolan approach as you so wisely put it is maybe neat to see how that would translate a bit, but once the curiosity is satiated you aren't left with much that's cool.

That Cyborg Ninja fight, though man.... woof.

[Andrew NDB]

Mortal Kombat as a movie franchise, I think, would benefit from an "easy does it" approach. Meaning, start out really grounded in part 1, keeping the weirdest things in the movie relegated to Shang Tsung, Raiden and maybe Goro. Foreshadow more but don't get into it. Then by the middle of 2 or 3 you can start bringing in the "weird" stuff... the Outworld and Netherworld and Shao Kahn and the demon stuff.

[Leo656]

I'm not sure you "get" Mortal Kombat, sir.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Mortal Kombat as a movie franchise, I think, would benefit from an "easy does it" approach. Meaning, start out really grounded in part 1, keeping the weirdest things in the movie relegated to Shang Tsung, Raiden and maybe Goro. Foreshadow more but don't get into it. Then by the middle of 2 or 3 you can start bringing in the "weird" stuff... the Outworld and Netherworld and Shao Kahn and the demon stuff.

That's sort of my feeling too. The weirder aspects give the story places to go later on, but feels like a lot to unpack for a first film.

The fan film I posted goes a bit far, but I found the concept to be exciting. Make thd characters resemble the source a bit more and bring us some grounded versions of iconic MK environments, with Raid quality fight scenes.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

That's sort of my feeling too. The weirder aspects give the story places to go later on, but feels like a lot to unpack for a first film.

And even "too fast" in movie #2 is a problem. Look at "Annihilation." Yeah, there's the small bit about it being a HORRIBLE movie, but right away it screamed, "We're getting FULL weird, right away!"

And nobody really liked that. The guys sitting next to their girlfriends going, "OOOH! Motaro!" or whatever... you can't really make a serious movie franchise for these people.

[AquaParade]

I actually think that Rebirth idea did excite a lot of fans. You're never going to please everyone but it got people talking when it was made. I'm a lifelong fan and I'm okay with it. So I think most fans would be okay with a more grounded take. The core elements, imo, are the iconic characters, top notch fight scenes, a certain level of violence, and maybe a tournament.

Yeah, no one is crying over Motaro or even what the tournament is really about.

[Leo656]

You presume a lot.

MK is absolutely a fantasy series by design. Those elements are every bit as important as anything else to what makes it "Mortal Kombat" in the first place. Behind everything else, the entire storyline is literally about demons and sorcerers trying to take over Earth. Sure, maybe that's too "silly" or "out there" for some people, and maybe some people don't care about the story at all anyway and are only into it for the splatter, but I think it's really oversimplifying to imply that you can just have one guy rip another guy's spine out, slap a "Mortal Kombat" sticker on it, and call it a day.

It's not "Kickboxer" or "Bloodsport". Never was. Never should be.

That approach would work a lot better towards Street Fighter, where the most "comic book"-style thing about it is just that people throw fireballs. "Legend of Chun-Li" tried and failed to make a somewhat "grounded" SF movie, but I think it failed more because every singe thing about it was done poorly, more so than the more "realistic" approach itself. Trying to make a "realistic" MK would be entirely missing the point of the material.

[IMJ]

Yeah I mean all of these opinions are valid, but let's face it - Mortal Kombat isn't exactly an unknown to the larger public. It's not really like how Iron Man was super grounded in sci-fi science and slowly led audiences at large into some pretty crazy material. So whereas the I.P. Iron Man was a gateway to the insanity of the Marvel Universe; Mortal Kombat is the franchise - on it's own merits there is no gateway to it. It would be like Star Wars needing to take a movie on an alien planet with relatively normal stuff before they go out into space in the second movie. It's just not neccessary. And if you want a lot to unpack, lmao unpack friggin' Star Wars - even if it was only Episode IV back in 1977.

Mortal Kombat is easy. There's clean living on Earth where there is science and tech and a little mysticism, and there's an inverted but parallel dimension to Earth called Outworld where evil dwells through mysticism and magic and a little tech. The two periodically hold a fight contest for supremacy. The end.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You presume a lot.

MK is absolutely a fantasy series by design. Those elements are every bit as important as anything else to what makes it "Mortal Kombat" in the first place. Behind everything else, the entire storyline is literally about demons and sorcerers trying to take over Earth. Sure, maybe that's too "silly" or "out there" for some people, and maybe some people don't care about the story at all anyway and are only into it for the splatter, but I think it's really oversimplifying to imply that you can just have one guy rip another guy's spine out, slap a "Mortal Kombat" sticker on it, and call it a day.

It's not "Kickboxer" or "Bloodsport". Never was. Never should be.

That approach would work a lot better towards Street Fighter, where the most "comic book"-style thing about it is just that people throw fireballs. "Legend of Chun-Li" tried and failed to make a somewhat "grounded" SF movie, but I think it failed more because every singe thing about it was done poorly, more so than the more "realistic" approach itself. Trying to make a "realistic" MK would be entirely missing the point of the material.

I really don't presume a lot. You can see the proof here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNLND7Hs818

The whole thing made a giant splash and got people talking. They were into it, generally speaking. Again, it's not perfect (I'll reinforce that the characters should resemble the source material more closely), but yeah it def stirred excitement. I am looking at these top comments and wondering where you are coming from assuming MK fans wouldn't want this type of treatment.

"its 2020 and i am still hoping they would make this and i swear it will break records like anything !!"

"please please pay attention to this! This is the movie we want!"

"And this is still better than Mortal Kombat 2021"

These are some of the top comments, man.
Not the end all be all, but as good as an indicator as anything else and much better than just going with your gut feeling with no context to back it up.

I think it's really oversimplifying to imply that you can just have one guy rip another guy's spine out, slap a "Mortal Kombat" sticker on it, and call it a day.

Well, yeah...you oversimplified it by your use of hyperbole. You didn't even mention the iconic characters.

[Leo656]

Just because a lot of people happen to completely miss the point of what makes Mortal Kombat "Mortal Kombat" doesn't mean those people deserve to get their way.

People get excited for anything that goes against expectations, the first time they see something like that. And they often react from a place of emotion without taking any time to really think about if that would actually make sense in the big picture. That's all that is.

Again, it's not "Bloodsport". There's only so much of the more fantastical elements you can downplay or remove before it ceases to be "Mortal Kombat" and becomes something else entirely.

It's like that fan movie or trailer or whatever from a few years back about a "grounded and realistic" Power Rangers, with the original team all grown up and the Black Ranger sniffing coke and sh*t like that. That "generated excitement" too but if anyone actually did a whole entire project like that it would be f*cking godawful. That's not what that franchise IS.

Something in the vein of "Legacy" is fine. That's "grounded and realistic" enough without removing the core of what makes the franchise what it is. Anything past that is going too far.

Here's the thing: Anyone can say that they're a "fan", but if they don't like or want things like Outworld, the Netherrealm, soul-stealing sorcerers, Dragon-People, Centaurs, cyborg ninjas, acid-spitting lizard people, or people dying and being brought back to life as zombies or shadow-ninjas, or even the goddamn Tournament, then guess what? They don't actually like Mortal Kombat. They don't even understand it. They just want Gore Porn, and in service to that they'd be perfectly fine turning the franchise into something it totally is not.

"You can take out the demon-wizards and Hell portals and zombie ninjas and still call it 'Mortal Kombat', so long as someone kicks off someone's head!" No, you actually can't. That isn't how it works. It's not a "salad" without the lettuce AND the tomatoes. A big bowl of Just Lettuce is NOT a salad. And MK without fantastical elements isn't MK.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Just because a lot of people happen to completely miss the point of what makes Mortal Kombat "Mortal Kombat" doesn't mean those people deserve to get their way.

People get excited for anything that goes against expectations, the first time they see something like that. And they often react from a place of emotion without taking any time to really think about if that would actually make sense in the big picture. That's all that is.

Again, it's not "Bloodsport". There's only so much of the more fantastical elements you can downplay or remove before it ceases to be "Mortal Kombat" and becomes something else entirely.

It's like that fan movie or trailer or whatever from a few years back about a "grounded and realistic" Power Rangers, with the original team all grown up and the Black Ranger sniffing coke and sh*t like that. That "generated excitement" too but if anyone actually did a whole entire project like that it would be f*cking godawful. That's not what that franchise IS.

Something in the vein of "Legacy" is fine. That's "grounded and realistic" enough without removing the core of what makes the franchise what it is. Anything past that is going too far.

Here's the thing: Anyone can say that they're a "fan", but if they don't like or want things like Outworld, the Netherrealm, soul-stealing sorcerers, Dragon-People, Centaurs, cyborg ninjas, acid-spitting lizard people, or people dying and being brought back to life as zombies or shadow-ninjas, then guess what? They don't actually like Mortal Kombat. They don't even understand it. They just want Gore Porn, and in service to that they'd be perfectly fine turning the franchise into something it totally is not.

"You can take out the demon-wizards and Hell portals and zombie ninjas and still call it 'Mortal Kombat', so long as someone kicks off someone's head!" No, you actually can't. That isn't how it works.

I think this is a weak argument. I also feel like it moves the goal post.
You started off saying that I was wrong in presuming that fans would accept a take similar to Rebirth. I think I've given sufficient evidence to refute that and back up the fact that fans would get behind something like Rebirth.

But now you're just saying that the fans who like that idea don't know what they want, and if they left a positive comment, it must simply be handwaved as an "emotional response" to seeing something different.
Sorry, but what a joke of a stance that is.
At least give people the dignity of their own opinion, without trying to tell them that their preference is an invalid emotional response. What a cop out.
And really, this is such a non-sense argument, I should just drop it there, but I'm compelled to point out that many of those comments we are discussing are of people saying "I still want this!". So how long is that emotional response allowed to last until it is considered a valid opinion? Rhetorical question.

Or further, you're saying even if they know what they want, they don't "deserve to get their way". I mean, whatever. I'm not getting into a debate over which fans "deserve" to get their way with a movie. And I'm not touching your argument regarding the makings of a "true Mortal Kombat fan" with a ten foot pole. All I know is I've loved Mortal Kombat all my life, from games, to cartoons, to Halloween costumes, and I'd be down for a grounded take like the one we are discussing. That ends that right there.

The Power Ranger comparison is a strawman argument though. Grounding the Power Rangers by having them do coke isn't comparable to grounding Mortal Kombat. It's a way bigger stretch and you know that. You're exercising a lot of exaggeration today to reinforce your opinions.

Sounds like for you, the bottom line is

A. You know what's best for MK

B. You set the requirements for being a true Mortal Kombat fan (cringe)

And here's the kicker....

C. Fans who share the opinion which contradicts yours, are simply having an "emotional response" that isn't actually worthy of consideration. Talk about taking your ball and going home.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I know better than most people about a lot of things. So? When you're Right all the f*cking time you don't have to be polite about it.

What I said was about what "works" or would be appropriate for the MK franchise, and how far you can bend the premise before it becomes something else entirely. You're arguing in favor of breaking the premise just so it would be "more realistic". Missing the point. Bad Opinions.

I get that you want it to be "grounded". And maybe other people want that too. Fine. They're wrong. They can want what they want, they're still missing the entire point of things.

The Power Rangers thing is entirely relevant to the conversation because it's literally the same thing. You're pleading for someone to take something that on its face is overly-fantastical by design and make it "real" just so you and a bunch of other people who can't handle the fact that not everything SHOULD be "Real" would have a better time with it.

You can put a cat in the oven but that don't make it a goddamn biscuit. And "grounded, realistic Mortal Kombat" isn't Mortal Kombat anymore.

[AquaParade]

Well, **** man. I didn't know it was this easy.

*Ahem*...

No, you're wrong.

Furthermore, your opinion is simply an "emotional response".

-- Okay, I could get used to this.

[Leo656]

That only works when I do it. By default you have to actually know what you're talking about first.