New Gods Movie

[sdp]

We're still getting the Immortals which is basically the New Gods

[Leo656]

Yeah, and "Fighter's History" is "basically" Street Fighter II.

[sdp]

Jack Kirby had to do what he had to do to finish his story

[ZariusTwo]

I know people praise Tom King's Mister Miracle book, but the whole thing is framed like he's stranded in an illusion and either has to accept this is one trap he can't escape from, or escapes it by killing himself. Worse, it tries to paint family life and fatherhood as something to be afraid of and to aspire for.

I feel we dodged a bullet with this. King's DC work is divisive at the best of times, his Batman run went from interesting to atrocious, Heroes In Crisis was the last straw for the Dan Didio regime too.

[AquaParade]

Ava Duvernay is sort of a weirdo and Tom King is a bit of an anomaly. You never know how a comic writer will take to film scripts. He’s also been inconsistent in the comic world as of late.
I think the man is capable of great writing, but his Batman run had me scratching my head most of the time.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

not going forward it has been cancelled

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...source=twitter

New Gods, which would have been a sprawling tale, was complicated by the fact that its villain, Darkseid, just appeared as a major foil in Zack Snyder's Justice League and there was a desire to have space between the latter and any new appearances.

That's dumb. They had 3 solid years to move this movie into production and they never did... that has nothing to do with Snyder or the Snyder Cut.

But yes, absolutely a bullet was dodged here. There could be an amazing New Gods movie, but it wouldn't be coming from the hand of Duvernay.

[Andrew NDB]

Duvernay kind of confirms that the Snyder Cut of JL killed her movie:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/snyders...ew-gods-scrap/

[Leo656]

I mean, on some level that's somewhat unfortunate.

On the other hand, it's pretty much impossible that anyone's take on Darkseid would top what Snyder did and was building towards. I mean, he nailed it. What little we saw of the New Gods in that movie was 1:1 with the comics. If anyone's going to do any New Gods movie at this point, it should 100% be him. He clearly understands how to do those characters and their mythology well, even though he had a very limited canvas on which to do it. I can only imagine what he'd do with a whole movie just to explore that stuff. Because the little bit he did was perfection.

Tough break for her, but that's life.

Also, as others have pointed out, some of her other movies flopped and that probably had a little bit to do with her New Gods movie getting cancelled, too. New Gods would be VERY expensive no matter what and risking all of that with someone who suddenly wasn't a big draw would be a rather questionable decision. I mean that's the exact same reason they pivoted away from Snyder; "These movies are too expensive unless a slam dunk is guaranteed." Based on her track record, she was honestly no "better" a choice than he was, to be perfectly blunt.

I mean, not to be mean but let's just be honest: She only ever got tapped for the gig because she's a female director anyway. Not that she's "bad" - I've never seen any of her work so I can't speak to it - but she got put on New Gods for the same reason the other woman got put on "The Eternals": Because she's a woman, AND a minority, and right now that's super important over all else. She might've done a good job, but she definitely did not get the job because of her resume. Let's not even pretend.

So yeah, kind of a bummer but also, feels like the universe just correcting itself.

[IMJ]

I was really looking forward to this one actually.

[Andrew NDB]

I like to believe that Duvernay's probably super woke, super racist "New Gods" pitch featured New Gods and Darkseid and all of that bearing little/no resemblance to the comic book ones... and then the Snyder Cut of JL dropped and they went, "Uh oh. Now everybody knows what the real New Gods are like. Damn, we can't release this now."

But I have no idea.

[Leo656]

Could very well be that. I have zero idea what experience she has with the material. All I know for a fact is that Lightray would 100% be gay, because... well, c'mon. I don't think they ever confirmed it in the comics, but Gardner always called him "Swishray" for a reason.

Which is also the exact kind of joke you'd NEVER see nowadays. Just sayin'.

But yeah, I mean... she's probably alright. Maybe she even knows the characters. But giving such a huge project to an affirmative action hire was always a questionable decision. And seeing the "real" version of Darkseid and Co. in some live-action form probably did screw up whatever she intended to do. Especially since the suits above WB at WarnerMedia still seem to want to leave the door open at least a crack for some Snyder stuff to be brought back in. Perhaps the WarnerMedia people simply liked Snyder's Darkseid better than whatever Ava had pitched, and hope to one day revisit that version.

OR, maybe it was just because "A Wrinkle In Time" tanked and suddenly she was too risky to trust such a big project to.

Could be multiple reasons, and probably are.

I'd love a proper New Gods movie, but the key word being "proper". No "reinvention". Doesn't need it. Just play it straight.

Until that day comes, the best New Gods movie we have remains 1987's "Masters of the Universe".

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I like to believe that Duvernay's probably super woke, super racist "New Gods" pitch featured New Gods and Darkseid and all of that bearing little/no resemblance to the comic book ones... and then the Snyder Cut of JL dropped and they went, "Uh oh. Now everybody knows what the real New Gods are like. Damn, we can't release this now."

But I have no idea.

I mean... that's probably true. But I'll look forward to these projects as always until the first sign of evidence that it's been corrupted by insanity and "inclusion-hate". And then when the pix and trailers and info drops and it's woke $#!(.... THEN, I'm out.

But until then, Duvernay might be talented and have turned out a great flick. Until it's apparent that it's not. You know?

[Leo656]

I mean in theory, yeah. We know literally nothing about what her plans were.

I honestly don't think that WB, in its current state, can pull off a New Gods movie. That material is very obtuse, very dense, and not at all "casual-friendly". To pull it off properly, they'd need to really commit, and accept going in that it's not going to pull in Little Timmy and the Soccer Mommies. Even in print, the New Gods were never a huge draw. Darkseid is, which is why he gets used to death. The rest of the DC Kirby stuff... well, it's for hardcores. Almost exclusively so.

Those books were popular and highly-regarded among super-nerds, but they never sold huge numbers. So in turn, expecting a New Gods movie to crack a billion dollars is... well, it's not very likely. Nobody knows those characters, and you can't just circumvent that by making the whole thing a carefree romp like Marvel did with Guardians of the Galaxy. New Gods can't be done that way. It's somber, it's bombastic, it's incredibly self-serious...

Put simply, it's all the kind of stuff only Snyder has really shown any ability (or interest) in exploring. Like seriously, if he ever did a DC movie again, that one is tailor-made for him more than anyone else. Everything New Gods IS, is stuff he's been either lauded or vilified for doing with his other material.

...But it's not the kind of material that's ever gonna crack a billion dollars and it's gonna cost about half that to even make. And I can't see WB either 1. Adapting it properly, knowing that they're going to alienate a lot of people from it by design, which is 100% what would happen, or 2. "Reinventing" it in a more family-friendly way that wouldn't completely tank.

New Gods is risky business. Present-Day WB/DC does not believe in taking risks. Therefore, we probably won't see any New Gods movie for a long time, if ever.

[Galactus]

I think Ava Duvernay might have pulled off something interesting visually with the New Gods but the one thing we do know about her plans is she planned on Big Barda to be the focus character with Mister Miracle which is a terrible idea. I imagine that being more Earth-bound she thought they would work better as audience povs but their backstory would be way too much to load in a movie that has to explain an awful lot of core Fourth World mythology. I wouldn't mind them featuring or playing a more prominent role in a sequel or even have a movie of their own but not be the main characters of the first New Gods movie.

I agree that the New Gods is a bit too out there for Warner Bros now. I'm not sure I'd trust WB with it even when their track record was better.

[Leo656]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about the Barda/Scott stuff. You're right, that's terrible!

I mean, I like Scott and Barda, but they're... periphery. Doing a "New Gods" movie and focusing it on a domestic couple is like bad sitcom premise. It's like f*cking Coneheads; "The nice couple next door are secretly ALIEN SUPER-DEITIES TAKING REFUGE FROM A COSMIC WAR!!! 'Back Home', it's a war for the fate of the universe... but these two would rather just mow the lawn, fire up the grill and sip some nice cold lemonade! DC's New Gods, coming this Summer!"

Yeah, that's dogsh*t. You don't start New Gods with two of the least important characters. You start with Darkseid and Highfather and all'a that sh*t or you don't even bother. It's a tale of fathers and sons and the Son destined to kill the Father and take his place, the death and rebirth of entire universes in a never-ending cosmic cycle.

You don't start that story off with f*cking Space Houdini and his Space Roller-Derby Wife. That's ridiculous. They barely matter! Part of why they're constantly on Earth is because they are ultimately THAT inconsequential to the entire New Gods saga to begin with. Again, I like 'em as characters, but c'mon.

As far as "trust", I would "trust" Zack Snyder to make a movie that was as or more faithful to New Gods canon than his Watchmen movie was to Watchmen. But I would also "trust" that movie to completely alienate most of the critics and mainstream audience and top out at making its budget back, at best. Because the whole thing just won't play to the same audience that likes MCU stuff. No matter who made it - and I do sincerely believe him to be the overall BEST choice - the material is simply too dense by design.

New Gods was not created for casuals, period. It's THE nerdiest of "nerd sh*t" and that is entirely its point. DC should only even ATTEMPT to adapt that stuff, if they're perfectly fine taking a hit on it financially. "We know it won't play to everyone, but we know it'll please the people it was made for and that's fine." That's the only way such a project as New Gods should even be attempted. If they try to make it a theme park ride, it'll be garbage.

They're not there yet. Once in a while, studios will make movies strictly for their intended audience and accept that they might not make money, knowing they'll make it up from some other project. But you don't see that kind of thing often with movies about warring planets and Space Gods that cost five hundred million dollars to film.

[Andrew NDB]

I'd trust Snyder to make like a good, big Orion vs. Darkseid movie, with New Gods sprinkled in. Not necessarily a big Jack Kirby's "The New Gods" epic. Unless he just used Jack Kirby comics as storyboards and script the way he did Watchmen.

I'm still not convinced Snyder independently understands story. Give him some great screenwriters and maybe. Visually he'd nail it and make it wow.

[Leo656]

Orion vs. Darkseid is the main crux of it all, anyway.

I mean yeah, there's like 80 other "important" characters but their conflict is central to the entire thing. That should be the main focus. It always comes back to them.

Obviously everyone else should be present and "involved". But you have to focus "New Gods" on the prodigal son who is predestined to kill and usurp his father. That's forever been the single most persistent and central theme of the entire thing. Nothing else "really" matters all that much.

[AquaParade]

Sounds like a potential stone thrown at Snyder, perhaps in favor of people she is close to at WB, because I don't buy that reason.

Or possibly an excuse for a film that just wasn't coming together, in script or concept.

[Leo656]

It would appear that so far, most people who've voiced any opinion on the matter do not, in fact, believe her suggestion.

The predominantly expressed opinion thus far is that after her previous movie sank like a brick, WB simply decided that the project was too much of a risk to move forward in its then-current form.

There's things we Know and things we can Suppose. And those things together can tell us a whole lot.

Things We Know:
- "A Wrinkle In Time" lost around one hundred and thirty million dollars.
- People were told they should see it, mostly because "It's the first $100 million+ movie directed by a black woman." What that has to do with the movie being good or not, I'm not sure I comprehend.
- Lots of people who liked the book it was (loosely) based on, hated the movie for its deviations.
- People who never read the book said the movie was very pretty, but sometimes incoherent and sterile.
- Disney hates losing money.
- WB, also, hates losing money.
- And now they see their new diversity hire who's supposed to direct their very expensive New Gods movie just pissed away over $100 million of their main competitor's money.
- Despite every reason anyone gave for not seeing/not liking "A Wrinkle In Time" - and there multiple reasons given - the reason the director and Disney decided to insist upon was, "Y'all just racist."
- She has now twice in a row blamed other people for one of her projects not turning out as planned. First the "racists" who didn't go see "A Wrinkle In Time", and now Zack Snyder and HBO Max.

Things We Can Suppose (based on Things We Know):
- WB decided, based on All That Other Stuff Before, that having this woman direct New Gods was suddenly too large of a risk.
- This woman is persistently full of sh*t. (To be fair, this one should probably be under "Things We Know" but I'm trying to be nice)

[Andrew NDB]

Conversely, had Wrinkle in Time done amazing blockbuster numbers... WB would have surely fast-tracked New Gods.