What does Peter Laird think of the direction TMNT took in since he sold it? - Page 2

~~AquaParade~~ · 02-25-2022, 12:33 AM

Luckily for me, my love of the 1990 film increases everytime I watch it. I think the Baron cut would be the film in it's pure form, but I'm pretty damn happy with the film we got, despite a few small hang-ups.

It'd be cooler if the turtles were raised as assassins to take on Saki, but what they have works fine. It has all the heart you could want, nails the characters, a mostly faithful story, with a nice dose of grit and grunge from the comics - and that's including the script down to the grainy camera lens - it feels independent just like those early Mirage books.

I love that damn movie.

~~Leo656~~ · 02-25-2022, 12:46 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't exactly say "my love for it grows" - I mean, it can't get much bigger than "My all-time favorite TMNT thing and essentially the only TMNT thing I care enough about to revisit with any frequency at all" - but I definitely keep finding new things to like, or things I appreciate more Now than I did Then.

Like, it's not perfect. But as far as what any TMNT movie that was made and/or distributed through the Hollywood system could ever be... it's about as "perfect" as it would ever have been "allowed" to be.

Like, a "pure" Mirage movie was and is never going to happen; the material is too obscure and off the mark from what people "expect" of TMNT, and was even more so in the pre-internet age when the only TMNT comics anyone knew about were the Archie ones, and mostly not even those. So anyone holding out hope for that kind of thing, Then or Now, was wishing for way too much.

Likewise, a total FW-based movie back then was impossible for budget reasons; they could barely have functional Ninja Turtles, so forget the Technodrome or any of that stuff. Never gonna happen back then.

The best-case scenario for anyone was basically the movie we got. The broad strokes of A with some of the recognizable trappings of B.

Seeing how they immediately sh*t the bed with the second movie further reinforces the idea that the original film was just a perfect storm of things that could never be recreated after that one time. There was too much money at stake, after that. Too many fingers in the pie, too many conflicting visions fighting for control of the project.

We'll never NOT have that. Which is why all future TMNT movie are doomed to be various flavors of suck no matter what, barring some unforeseen miracle.

But yeah, the original is one of those movies I watch and every time can't help but go, "Man, they really don't make 'em like this anymore."

*Andrew NDB* · 02-25-2022, 01:06 AM

In a micro level of the original Star Wars' movie's macro level... everything working against it (budget, time, etc.) actually worked for its benefit. It looks grimey and dirty and ill-lit and it should. It was the perfect atmosphere, even if I don't agree with some of the choices otherwise.

Then they get a good budget for part 2 and it's everything the first one isn't. It's polished, overly camp, too many people involved and they did the worst thing they could've done which is kowtow to parents. Some great effects work in 2 but it's pretty soulless.

~~Leo656~~ · 02-25-2022, 01:26 AM

Oh, man, visually it's like everything it "should" be. Like, some of the Scotch tape and chicken wire shows up here and there, but I mean, that's Movie Sh*t. That movie is so completely how TMNT looks in my head. That's what most of the characters sound like, too. It's so spot-on.

Funny story, and I mentioned this to someone yesterday. It's weird how I've always been a guy who pays attention, and yet, despite the fact that I watched both the 1990 TMNT movie as well as the Police Academy movies hundreds of times growing up, along with Leo being my favorite character and everything... it took me a WHILE before it fully clicked that the Japanese guy fawning over Callahan's tits in three straight movies was actually Leo's voice in the TMNT movie.

I'd be like "Brian Tochi, Brian Tochi... rings a bell, but I'm not sure from where..." And then one day it was like, "Waaaait... what? Dude, no way!"

I like that voice for him a lot. Like, he tries to be assertive and bold, but still comes off as young-ish and has a subtle bit of a "lovable dork" quality that some of the cartoons didn't quite nail for me, with the kind of dry sense of humor and everything. Cam Clarke's voice is obviously iconic, and I'm a big fan of it, but it also got a little self-parodying at times, and often a bit too whiny for my tastes. The 4Kids cartoon was good, but often sounded a bit older than the character is supposed to be, and also rather stiff and over-the-top at times, like a bit too "super-hero", if that makes any sense. But Leo in the movies is exactly spot-on, for me.

But like I said, first movie got pretty much everyone's voices right, to me. I know not everyone loves Feld-dawg as Donnie, but al I can say to that is "C'mon, it's Feld-Dawg, he's a gift and we should be grateful."

Although if I'd been he, I would've fought for a scene where Donnie does a Moonwalk into a little twirl and pose, just to complete the whole "Donnie Is Corey Feldman" circle. Maybe Donnie could have briefly worn a black fedora and dark sunglasses while doing so. Then I'd say that it was "perfect".

As is, still quite excellent. But man, that would've sealed it.

~~AquaParade~~ · 02-25-2022, 04:54 AM

Feldman as Donatello works great for me. Actually, all four of those characters are probably my favorite versions if them, aside from maybe the Mirage versions, which is a tough comparison.

No one feels pigeonholed. Leo is focused and attentive to Splinter and the family but still goofs off with the others, we laugh with Mikey because he's funny, instead of at him for being an idiot, Raphael is all kinds of emotional, and Donatello felt textured as well because he had a sense of humor but was also reflective and intelligent.

*LeotheLateBloomer* · 02-26-2022, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

As good as the 1990 movie was...

If someone from The Future had told you Then, "This is by far the best TMNT movie that will EVER be made, and believe me, they're not gonna stop trying but it's all just going to get worse and worse and WORSE until you'd just wish they'd stop trying... so no, yeah, this movie is It, it literally gets no better than this..."

People remember the 1990 movie so fondly that it makes me wonder why they don't try learning or emulating off of that film.

As for this topic, I'm sure Peter has to regret it to some extent. I know he wouldn't want TMNT to churn out the way Viacom is doing them. But I don't think any company would handle TMNT the way he would. Others just see it as a cash-cow where they rather go back to what they're familiar or do something that's far off spectrum like Rise. And that can be frustrating.

It makes you wonder if he had considered DC, Marvel, Image, or Dark Horse. Would they have handled the property any better? I believe DC would do a much better job but even Batman vs TMNT had it's flaws that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. It is the one of the best things we've received since the buyout though.

Would Kevin Eastman had been interested in buying the property back then? I know he left the property before Laird sold it but was he ever on thought? I will always prefer how Laird handles the property over Eastman but I wonder how Eastman would run it if he owned it. He wouldn't have to be a "yes man" to a lot of decisions being made right now.

*Coola Yagami* · 02-26-2022, 01:09 PM

eh.... I would only want the TMNT with Marvel or DC as long as they were just published by them and not part of their greater universe. Yeah, crossovers are cool now and then, but I wouldn't want to see silly stuff like Shredder working with The Hand, or Donatello being part of the Justice League or such nonsense.

*Anarchistguy* · 02-26-2022, 04:28 PM

What does Peter Laird think of TMNT now that it's literally become EVERYTHING he fought so hard to prevent?

My guess is he's probably trying to avoid any contact with the franchise as much as he can.

*Prowler* · 02-26-2022, 07:56 PM

Since I was only born in November of 1990, I obviously didn't get to see the original TMNT movie until several years later on TV. I believe I first watched it in... 2002? So I cannot answer that question.

But, if you told me around 2005 or so that there'd be 2 more TMNT cartoons after 2k3 and that the whole franchise would become worse and regress to a Pseudo-FW pandering mess, I'd not have believed you. During the time 2k3 was on, the franchise seemed to have completely ignore all its FW elements. I didn't think it would be possible to recover from that now that a new generation was growing with a different interation that was closer to the original source.

And if you had told me in 2007 that the live actions movies coming after the CGI TMNT animated film would be WAY worse, I'd definitely have not believed you.

02-25-2022, 01:06 AM	#23
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,559	In a micro level of the original Star Wars' movie's macro level... everything working against it (budget, time, etc.) actually worked for its benefit. It looks grimey and dirty and ill-lit and it should. It was the perfect atmosphere, even if I don't agree with some of the choices otherwise. Then they get a good budget for part 2 and it's everything the first one isn't. It's polished, overly camp, too many people involved and they did the worst thing they could've done which is kowtow to parents. Some great effects work in 2 but it's pretty soulless. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

02-26-2022, 01:09 PM	#27
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 15,711	eh.... I would only want the TMNT with Marvel or DC as long as they were just published by them and not part of their greater universe. Yeah, crossovers are cool now and then, but I wouldn't want to see silly stuff like Shredder working with The Hand, or Donatello being part of the Justice League or such nonsense. __________________ "I was down with TMNT once, but then they changed what TMNT was. Now what I was down with is no longer TMNT and what TMNT now is seems weird and scary. And it'll happen to YOU." Check out my blog for Comic Reviews and other things. https://markepicblogofrandomness.blogspot.com/ I also started The AEW Crew, the All Elite Wrestling Fan Club! https://www.facebook.com/groups/637508120044168/

02-26-2022, 04:28 PM	#28
Anarchistguy Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Canada (This country is too peaceful, Something's up...) Posts: 2,137	What does Peter Laird think of TMNT now that it's literally become EVERYTHING he fought so hard to prevent? My guess is he's probably trying to avoid any contact with the franchise as much as he can. __________________ M.D.K. Maim! Destroy! Kill!!! "When my time comes, I wanna be buried face down, so those who don't like me can kiss my ass!"

02-25-2022, 12:33 AM	#21
~~AquaParade~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 8,450	Luckily for me, my love of the 1990 film increases everytime I watch it. I think the Baron cut would be the film in it's pure form, but I'm pretty damn happy with the film we got, despite a few small hang-ups. It'd be cooler if the turtles were raised as assassins to take on Saki, but what they have works fine. It has all the heart you could want, nails the characters, a mostly faithful story, with a nice dose of grit and grunge from the comics - and that's including the script down to the grainy camera lens - it feels independent just like those early Mirage books. I love that damn movie.

02-25-2022, 12:46 AM	#22
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Yeah, I wouldn't exactly say "my love for it grows" - I mean, it can't get much bigger than "My all-time favorite TMNT thing and essentially the only TMNT thing I care enough about to revisit with any frequency at all" - but I definitely keep finding new things to like, or things I appreciate more Now than I did Then. Like, it's not perfect. But as far as what any TMNT movie that was made and/or distributed through the Hollywood system could ever be... it's about as "perfect" as it would ever have been "allowed" to be. Like, a "pure" Mirage movie was and is never going to happen; the material is too obscure and off the mark from what people "expect" of TMNT, and was even more so in the pre-internet age when the only TMNT comics anyone knew about were the Archie ones, and mostly not even those. So anyone holding out hope for that kind of thing, Then or Now, was wishing for way too much. Likewise, a total FW-based movie back then was impossible for budget reasons; they could barely have functional Ninja Turtles, so forget the Technodrome or any of that stuff. Never gonna happen back then. The best-case scenario for anyone was basically the movie we got. The broad strokes of A with some of the recognizable trappings of B. Seeing how they immediately sh*t the bed with the second movie further reinforces the idea that the original film was just a perfect storm of things that could never be recreated after that one time. There was too much money at stake, after that. Too many fingers in the pie, too many conflicting visions fighting for control of the project. We'll never NOT have that. Which is why all future TMNT movie are doomed to be various flavors of suck no matter what, barring some unforeseen miracle. But yeah, the original is one of those movies I watch and every time can't help but go, "Man, they really don't make 'em like this anymore."

02-25-2022, 01:26 AM	#24
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Oh, man, visually it's like everything it "should" be. Like, some of the Scotch tape and chicken wire shows up here and there, but I mean, that's Movie Sh*t. That movie is so completely how TMNT looks in my head. That's what most of the characters sound like, too. It's so spot-on. Funny story, and I mentioned this to someone yesterday. It's weird how I've always been a guy who pays attention, and yet, despite the fact that I watched both the 1990 TMNT movie as well as the Police Academy movies hundreds of times growing up, along with Leo being my favorite character and everything... it took me a WHILE before it fully clicked that the Japanese guy fawning over Callahan's tits in three straight movies was actually Leo's voice in the TMNT movie. I'd be like "Brian Tochi, Brian Tochi... rings a bell, but I'm not sure from where..." And then one day it was like, "Waaaait... what? Dude, no way!" I like that voice for him a lot. Like, he tries to be assertive and bold, but still comes off as young-ish and has a subtle bit of a "lovable dork" quality that some of the cartoons didn't quite nail for me, with the kind of dry sense of humor and everything. Cam Clarke's voice is obviously iconic, and I'm a big fan of it, but it also got a little self-parodying at times, and often a bit too whiny for my tastes. The 4Kids cartoon was good, but often sounded a bit older than the character is supposed to be, and also rather stiff and over-the-top at times, like a bit too "super-hero", if that makes any sense. But Leo in the movies is exactly spot-on, for me. But like I said, first movie got pretty much everyone's voices right, to me. I know not everyone loves Feld-dawg as Donnie, but al I can say to that is "C'mon, it's Feld-Dawg, he's a gift and we should be grateful." Although if I'd been he, I would've fought for a scene where Donnie does a Moonwalk into a little twirl and pose, just to complete the whole "Donnie Is Corey Feldman" circle. Maybe Donnie could have briefly worn a black fedora and dark sunglasses while doing so. Then I'd say that it was "perfect". As is, still quite excellent. But man, that would've sealed it.

02-25-2022, 04:54 AM	#25
~~AquaParade~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 8,450	Feldman as Donatello works great for me. Actually, all four of those characters are probably my favorite versions if them, aside from maybe the Mirage versions, which is a tough comparison. No one feels pigeonholed. Leo is focused and attentive to Splinter and the family but still goofs off with the others, we laugh with Mikey because he's funny, instead of at him for being an idiot, Raphael is all kinds of emotional, and Donatello felt textured as well because he had a sense of humor but was also reflective and intelligent.

02-26-2022, 07:56 PM	#29
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	Since I was only born in November of 1990, I obviously didn't get to see the original TMNT movie until several years later on TV. I believe I first watched it in... 2002? So I cannot answer that question. But, if you told me around 2005 or so that there'd be 2 more TMNT cartoons after 2k3 and that the whole franchise would become worse and regress to a Pseudo-FW pandering mess, I'd not have believed you. During the time 2k3 was on, the franchise seemed to have completely ignore all its FW elements. I didn't think it would be possible to recover from that now that a new generation was growing with a different interation that was closer to the original source. And if you had told me in 2007 that the live actions movies coming after the CGI TMNT animated film would be WAY worse, I'd definitely have not believed you.