Random Gaming Memories - Page 3

~~Leo656~~ · 05-01-2022, 07:49 PM

I can't lie, the only one I've played that I absolutely can't stand is Sonic '06, and that game isn't even finished. It's pretty unplayable, though.

I spent a lot of time with Sonic Unleashed and while I don't think it's AS bad as people say it is, I don't see why the hell they made that game, specifically, and it has a ton of problems. I did have some fun with it, but huge chunks of it were tedious and/or frustrating, and after I died a ton on the final Boss I just rage-quit and never went back to it. I think a lot of the hate is hyperbole but I can't say I'd ever recommend it either. There's glimpses of a much better game in there though. Good luck having the patience to find them.

I know a lot of people love Sonic Adventure 2, but I just don't. Again, it WANTS to be a good game, but there's too much bullsh*t. The final sequence is incredibly aggravating to the point I think I only beat it twice, at most, possibly only once. The game has WAY too many spots where they fling you up a mile in the air at full speed, and rather than land on anything you just drift into space and die automatically (later games would "magnetize" you to a rail or other surface on the way down so you wouldn't die for no reason at all, which feels like mercy). And those Knuckles missions... oh GOD, those Knuckles missions. Just awful. It has a lot of ambition but the execution wasn't there yet. Everything SA2 does well, later games did way better, and with a lot less frustration. I can't think of any good reason to play it.

If I had to pick a favorite Sonic game I might have to say Generations. I'm of the minority that never outright hated the shift to 3D, I just felt like most games either didn't do it well or they would start to and then screw it up, like Unleashed. I really loved the way Generations used the best parts of the 2D and 3D games without any of the frustrating parts of either. Literally the best of both worlds. I played that game to death, and my thumbs hadn't been so sore since 1993. And for once, I had nothing but fun and pretty much no frustration.

Sonic Mania is great of course, I personally just found it a little bit one-note since it was more heavily focused on capturing the old school 2D feel. And that's fine, but as I said since I actually liked the 3D gameplay (when it was done well) I personally found more to like in Generations since it had more of a mix of everything. I know I definitely played it for longer. But Mania's a great game, no doubt.

*Prowler* · 05-09-2022, 11:48 PM

I think Sega just never truly figured it out how to make Sonic's transition to 3D fully work. I guess a game like Sonic that was initially designed to take advantage of Mega Drive being faster than the competitor's console wasn't meant to shine on a 3D console or game.

I know Sonic Adventure was well received when it came out but clearly it doesn't have the same legacy as Mario 64. And most people I've talked to who grew up with Adventure will tell you the game didn't age that well and that it was never a masterpiece.

Sonic never had a game like the Mario Galaxy games or Mario Odyssey either.

Also, Sega has lost some of its people working on their games throughout the years while Nintendo was a lot better at keeping a lot of employees they had from the 90s. They kept growing up as developers and as people throughout the years. Nintendo has always been a well run company. Even when their systems didn't sell that well like during the GameCube and Wii U eras, they still managed to make a lot of money from the GBA and the DS/3DS. Not to mention from Pokémon, their biggest cash cow. Nintendo never felt like it was run by monkeys like Sega did around the mid-late 90s.

~~Leo656~~ · 05-10-2022, 12:11 AM

I think the problem is that none of the 3D Sonic games were "all good" like Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Galaxy or whatever. Stuff like the Sonic Adventure games or Unleashed would have a lot of good-to-great stuff in them... but there'd always be one or two things that were bad-to-awful, and so it would wreck the curve.

Like, I still love playing Sonic Adventure, but if you clip the stuff with Big entirely and do the Knuckles sections differently, it would be a MUCH better game immediately. And I don't even hate those parts as much as most people do, they simply have no real business being there and they drag the game down needlessly. Nobody wanted to play a fishing mini-game in a Sonic game; it felt like they only did that because everyone raved about the fishing mini-game in Ocarina of Time so they were like, "This sh*t's gonna be the future!" And the Emerald-hunting with Knuckles wasn't entirely bad, in that game, but it was tedious. SA is so close to being a "perfect" 3D Sonic game, but the junky bits drag it down and taint the memory of it. The Sonic and Tails parts are still very, very good, and they work to disprove the notion that "Sonic doesn't work in 3D". It CAN, it totally can and does... when they maintain focus. They clearly added the other stuff with other characters as a means to "add variety", but that's the thing, nobody really WANTED that. If that game had just been the Sonic and Tails levels, I'm convinced people would still be singing its praises today, instead of just saying "Well, it wasn't a bad first try". Because there's really nothing wrong at all with those parts.

Most people loved Sonic Adventure 2 better, and there are some improvements, but again, the bad stuff drags it down. The Knuckles sections are AWFUL in that game, and I swear that stuff by itself is gonna keep me from ever playing that game again. The final section of the game is also terrible. It makes sense having to play through as all the characters one final time but it just takes too long and the Robotnik and Tails parts are godawful. Again, there's potential there, but the bad stuff is REALLY bad.

Even Unleashed had a lot of great stuff in it... but Jesus, that Werehog stuff was a f*cking misfire. I gave the game a fair shake, and everything that was "regular Sonic" gameplay was fine, and I even thought the little side quests were neat, very Mario-and-Zelda-esque. I did have a lot of fun with the game... but only parts of it, and the final section was so infuriating I never finished it.

This is why I love Sonic Generations so much. It has everything that was great about the 3D Sonic games, with NONE of the sh*t that just didn't work. There wasn't one minute of that game where I wasn't having a f*cking blast. The 2D levels and 3D levels were pure perfection all the way around. And it shows that Sonic gameplay works GREAT in 3D, when done properly. So the old chestnut that "It just doesn't work" is bullsh*t." Total bullsh*t. They just need to NOT drag it down with a bunch of silly sh*t nobody ever asked for in a Sonic game, like fishing or digging around for rocks. When it's focused, it's great. But they lost focus more often than not. That was the problem. They pretty much nailed the 3D gameplay right out of the gate with SA but refused to commit to just that.

Sonic Heroes is also a pretty sweet game nobody really talks about much. But they should. I'd take a sequel.

*Prowler* · 05-10-2022, 12:40 AM

I remember being so frustrated when I first saw footage of Sonic Jam in that 3D section of the menu or something that's a small part of the game. THAT'S what the Saturn 3D Sonic game should have looked like. Not Flickies Island with better graphics.

I feel like Nights into Dreams was basically the Sonic game of the Saturn. Another issue with Sonic is... there seems to be a new Sonic game coming out all the damn time. Perhaps Sega should slow down a bit and work on a new Sonic game for a few years instead of trying to pump them out as quick and possible.

Sonic had a period in the mid and late 2000s where it became an embarrassment and pretty much tarnished its reputation forever. Sonic 06 being one of the main reasons for that, I'm sure.

Sega should never let its own mascot reach such lows.

05-01-2022, 07:49 PM	#41
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	I can't lie, the only one I've played that I absolutely can't stand is Sonic '06, and that game isn't even finished. It's pretty unplayable, though. I spent a lot of time with Sonic Unleashed and while I don't think it's AS bad as people say it is, I don't see why the hell they made that game, specifically, and it has a ton of problems. I did have some fun with it, but huge chunks of it were tedious and/or frustrating, and after I died a ton on the final Boss I just rage-quit and never went back to it. I think a lot of the hate is hyperbole but I can't say I'd ever recommend it either. There's glimpses of a much better game in there though. Good luck having the patience to find them. I know a lot of people love Sonic Adventure 2, but I just don't. Again, it WANTS to be a good game, but there's too much bullsh*t. The final sequence is incredibly aggravating to the point I think I only beat it twice, at most, possibly only once. The game has WAY too many spots where they fling you up a mile in the air at full speed, and rather than land on anything you just drift into space and die automatically (later games would "magnetize" you to a rail or other surface on the way down so you wouldn't die for no reason at all, which feels like mercy). And those Knuckles missions... oh GOD, those Knuckles missions. Just awful. It has a lot of ambition but the execution wasn't there yet. Everything SA2 does well, later games did way better, and with a lot less frustration. I can't think of any good reason to play it. If I had to pick a favorite Sonic game I might have to say Generations. I'm of the minority that never outright hated the shift to 3D, I just felt like most games either didn't do it well or they would start to and then screw it up, like Unleashed. I really loved the way Generations used the best parts of the 2D and 3D games without any of the frustrating parts of either. Literally the best of both worlds. I played that game to death, and my thumbs hadn't been so sore since 1993. And for once, I had nothing but fun and pretty much no frustration. Sonic Mania is great of course, I personally just found it a little bit one-note since it was more heavily focused on capturing the old school 2D feel. And that's fine, but as I said since I actually liked the 3D gameplay (when it was done well) I personally found more to like in Generations since it had more of a mix of everything. I know I definitely played it for longer. But Mania's a great game, no doubt.

05-09-2022, 11:48 PM	#42
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	I think Sega just never truly figured it out how to make Sonic's transition to 3D fully work. I guess a game like Sonic that was initially designed to take advantage of Mega Drive being faster than the competitor's console wasn't meant to shine on a 3D console or game. I know Sonic Adventure was well received when it came out but clearly it doesn't have the same legacy as Mario 64. And most people I've talked to who grew up with Adventure will tell you the game didn't age that well and that it was never a masterpiece. Sonic never had a game like the Mario Galaxy games or Mario Odyssey either. Also, Sega has lost some of its people working on their games throughout the years while Nintendo was a lot better at keeping a lot of employees they had from the 90s. They kept growing up as developers and as people throughout the years. Nintendo has always been a well run company. Even when their systems didn't sell that well like during the GameCube and Wii U eras, they still managed to make a lot of money from the GBA and the DS/3DS. Not to mention from Pokémon, their biggest cash cow. Nintendo never felt like it was run by monkeys like Sega did around the mid-late 90s.

05-10-2022, 12:11 AM	#43
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	I think the problem is that none of the 3D Sonic games were "all good" like Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Galaxy or whatever. Stuff like the Sonic Adventure games or Unleashed would have a lot of good-to-great stuff in them... but there'd always be one or two things that were bad-to-awful, and so it would wreck the curve. Like, I still love playing Sonic Adventure, but if you clip the stuff with Big entirely and do the Knuckles sections differently, it would be a MUCH better game immediately. And I don't even hate those parts as much as most people do, they simply have no real business being there and they drag the game down needlessly. Nobody wanted to play a fishing mini-game in a Sonic game; it felt like they only did that because everyone raved about the fishing mini-game in Ocarina of Time so they were like, "This sht's gonna be the future!" And the Emerald-hunting with Knuckles wasn't entirely bad, in that game, but it was tedious. SA is so close to being a "perfect" 3D Sonic game, but the junky bits drag it down and taint the memory of it. The Sonic and Tails parts are still very, very good, and they work to disprove the notion that "Sonic doesn't work in 3D". It CAN, it totally can and does... when they maintain focus. They clearly added the other stuff with other characters as a means to "add variety", but that's the thing, nobody really WANTED that. If that game had just* been the Sonic and Tails levels, I'm convinced people would still be singing its praises today, instead of just saying "Well, it wasn't a bad first try". Because there's really nothing wrong at all with those parts. Most people loved Sonic Adventure 2 better, and there are some improvements, but again, the bad stuff drags it down. The Knuckles sections are AWFUL in that game, and I swear that stuff by itself is gonna keep me from ever playing that game again. The final section of the game is also terrible. It makes sense having to play through as all the characters one final time but it just takes too long and the Robotnik and Tails parts are godawful. Again, there's potential there, but the bad stuff is REALLY bad. Even Unleashed had a lot of great stuff in it... but Jesus, that Werehog stuff was a fcking misfire. I gave the game a fair shake, and everything that was "regular Sonic" gameplay was fine, and I even thought the little side quests were neat, very Mario-and-Zelda-esque. I did have a lot of fun with the game... but only parts of it, and the final section was so infuriating I never finished it. This is why I love Sonic Generations so much. It has everything that was great about the 3D Sonic games, with NONE of the sht that just didn't work. There wasn't one minute of that game where I wasn't having a fcking blast. The 2D levels and 3D levels were pure perfection all the way around. And it shows that Sonic gameplay works GREAT in 3D, when done properly. So the old chestnut that "It just doesn't work" is bullsht." Total bullsht. They just need to NOT drag it down with a bunch of silly sht nobody ever asked for in a Sonic game, like fishing or digging around for rocks. When it's focused, it's great. But they lost focus more often than not. That was the problem. They pretty much nailed the 3D gameplay right out of the gate with SA but refused to commit to just that. Sonic Heroes is also a pretty sweet game nobody really talks about much. But they should. I'd take a sequel.

05-10-2022, 12:40 AM	#44
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	I remember being so frustrated when I first saw footage of Sonic Jam in that 3D section of the menu or something that's a small part of the game. THAT'S what the Saturn 3D Sonic game should have looked like. Not Flickies Island with better graphics. I feel like Nights into Dreams was basically the Sonic game of the Saturn. Another issue with Sonic is... there seems to be a new Sonic game coming out all the damn time. Perhaps Sega should slow down a bit and work on a new Sonic game for a few years instead of trying to pump them out as quick and possible. Sonic had a period in the mid and late 2000s where it became an embarrassment and pretty much tarnished its reputation forever. Sonic 06 being one of the main reasons for that, I'm sure. Sega should never let its own mascot reach such lows.