Is there no such thing as "choice"? If there is, how is there?

[Leo656]

Hypothetically, if God is real and all-powerful then he could manifest physically to ensure that people saw him with their own eyes, and heard from his own mouth what we were expected to do. It wouldn't necessarily take much, and it would undoubtedly do some good.

But we're supposed to take everything on faith, which as we've clearly seen simply does not work. So I am not sure what God expects from mere mortals. I get that he's not supposed to be subject to our beck and call, but if he's all-knowing, he knows that most people won't believe without proof. And so in turn they should not be punished for lacking faith. He would understand it, and if he cared enough, he would rectify it.

I don't know, the whole things sounds a lot like Santa Claus to me. But I can't outright dismiss the possibility outright that there's a higher power. I just think that if it exists, our own understanding of it is probably quite incorrect.

[Prowler]

It amazes me how so many people can feel so strongly about something you can't even be sure exists.

Basing your whole life on trying to please this God guy, something that you're not even sure exists and no one has seen with their very eyes... doesn't seem like a good way to live your life.

Also,are we supposed to lead boring lives and get rewarded after we die? So we're supposed to be unhappy because there might be an afterlife where we get compensated in a place like heaven... and what do we do there exactly?

Might as well have fun while you're alive, I'd say. Because that's certainly real.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I just want to make it clear that I do not believe that God manifests himself into the physical world which is where I differ from Christians. Its not limiting God to say that he is not physical, but rather just being logical and consistent.

If I say that God cannot make a shape that is both a square and triangle at the same time, it does not mean that God is limited but that a square triangle is an illogical concept. Similarly, God being physical is an illogical concept because anything physical is automatically imperfect.

Originally Posted by Prowler

It amazes me how so many people can feel so strongly about something you can't even be sure exists.

Basing your whole life on trying to please this God guy, something that you're not even sure exists and no one has seen with their very eyes... doesn't seem like a good way to live your life.

Also,are we supposed to lead boring lives and get rewarded after we die? So we're supposed to be unhappy because there might be an afterlife where we get compensated in a place like heaven... and what do we do there exactly?

Might as well have fun while you're alive, I'd say. Because that's certainly real.

Believing in God is the only true happiness in my experience. The world changes and grows, but faith in God is absolute and unchanging.

And by believing and having faith, I don't mean hoping that he exists, but trusting in God after knowing of his existence.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I just want to make it clear that I do not believe that God manifests himself into the physical world which is where I differ from Christians. Its not limiting God to say that he is not physical, but rather just being logical and consistent.

If I say that God cannot make a shape that is both a square and triangle at the same time, it does not mean that God is limited but that a square triangle is an illogical concept. Similarly, God being physical is an illogical concept because anything physical is automatically imperfect.

I don't think Christians consider God to be a physical entity either. After all, no one ever sees him. They just "feel" him.

I dunno how exactly one "feels" God. I can feel oxygen entering and leaving my body as far as non physical things go. But can't say I've ever felt something that made me feel it was a god of some sort.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I just want to make it clear that I do not believe that God manifests himself into the physical world which is where I differ from Christians. Its not limiting God to say that he is not physical, but rather just being logical and consistent.

If I say that God cannot make a shape that is both a square and triangle at the same time, it does not mean that God is limited but that a square triangle is an illogical concept. Similarly, God being physical is an illogical concept because anything physical is automatically imperfect.



Believing in God is the only true happiness in my experience. The world changes and grows, but faith in God is absolute and unchanging.

And by believing and having faith, I don't mean hoping that he exists, but trusting in God after knowing of his existence.

Well maybe that makes you and others happy. But for me, it doesn't work that way.

For me to trust God I'd have to believe in him in the first place, which I don't.

Closest thing to a god I believe in is what we call the mother nature. But I just see it as something that controls the cycle of life and the climate. Not something that watches over us and rules our lives.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by Prowler

I don't think Christians consider God to be a physical entity either. After all, no one ever sees him. They just "feel" him.

Yes true, but the vast majority of them believe that Jesus (Peace be upon Him) was God in the flesh, which is something that Muslims strongly deny. Christians have no problem with the concept of God walking on the earth as a man, but Muslims find such a concept to be insulting and illogical.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Yes true, but the vast majority of them believe that Jesus (Peace be upon Him) was God in the flesh, which is something that Muslims strongly deny. Christians have no problem with the concept of God walking on the earth as a man, but Muslims find such a concept to be insulting and illogical.

I'm never sure if Christians consider Jesus to be God or his father God.

But the prophet being the God himself seems a bit odd.

Also, it's interesting how Muslims don't draw pictures of Muhammad while Christians... Jesus face is plastered all over the place.

As for Judaism, I don't think they even know who their prophet is? And I don't think Jews believe in hell either?

[Leo656]

A lot of Jews I know are rather agnostic and they practice their faith more out of tradition than belief. These individuals are of the opinion that the holy scriptures are more like guidelines on how to live rather than ironclad rules that come with strict punishment. They don't necessarily believe in God - a lot of the ones I know who self-identify as Jewish will outright say they don't believe in God - but they still observe holidays and try and live by their respective book, anyways.

That makes sense to me. More so than taking every word of any scripture as if it were meant to be read extremely literally. But that's me. And again, that's not the case for all Jewish people, obviously, only some of the ones I've met who've been open about the subject.

The ones who don't believe are pretty blunt. "Who believes in God? Look at this place, what God would allow All This?" But they still practice their faith to some degree. It's interesting.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Yes, you're right. It is forbidden for Muslims to draw pictures of the Prophets to avoid worship of them.

Although Jesus (pbuh) explicitly never says in the Bible that he is God or that he is to be worshipped, that is indeed what the vast majority of Christians do.

And yeah, alot of Jews are by race only. They may disbelieve in the faith altogether, but they still belong to the racial group that historically practiced the religion.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

A lot of Jews I know are rather agnostic and they practice their faith more out of tradition than belief. These individuals are of the opinion that the holy scriptures are more like guidelines on how to live rather than ironclad rules that come with strict punishment. They don't necessarily believe in God - a lot of the ones I know who self-identify as Jewish will outright say they don't believe in God - but they still observe holidays and try and live by their respective book, anyways.

That makes sense to me. More so than taking every word of any scripture as if it were meant to be read extremely literally. But that's me. And again, that's not the case for all Jewish people, obviously, only some of the ones I've met who've been open about the subject.

The ones who don't believe are pretty blunt. "Who believes in God? Look at this place, what God would allow All This?" But they still practice their faith to some degree. It's interesting.

I mean that pretty much describes a ton of Catholics in my country as well. About half of them at least.

It's mostly some older people in more rural areas who are more actively into religion.

Most people have their own lives and **** to deal with on a daily basis. Going to church and praying isn't nor should it be a top priority for them. They only attend it when there's a wedding or a funeral.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Yes, you're right. It is forbidden for Muslims to draw pictures of the Prophets to avoid worship of them.

Although Jesus (pbuh) explicitly never says in the Bible that he is God or that he is to be worshipped, that is indeed what the vast majority of Christians do.

And yeah, alot of Jews are by race only. They may disbelieve in the faith altogether, but they still belong to the racial group that historically practiced the religion.

It does seem odd for Christians to worship Jesus so much then, when he doesn't even tell them to do that. Then again doesn't seem like he forbids them from doing it either.

Also it's funny how Jesus is often portrayed as being blonde and blue eyed... I know people in the Middle East can have light hair and eyes but Jesus most likely had very dark brown hair at least and brown eyes. And if came back to life tomorrow and travelled to some very right wing sects of Christianity he'd be immediately viewed as a dirty Arab terrorist based on his appearance.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Also it's funny how Jesus is often portrayed as being blonde and blue eyed... I know people in the Middle East can have light hair and eyes but Jesus most likely had very dark brown hair at least and brown eyes. And if came back to life tomorrow and travelled to some very right wing sects of Christianity he'd be immediately viewed as a dirty Arab terrorist based on his appearance.

This is always like the "war on Christmas" people. People swear it's a real thing, but nobody can point to any examples. Just like I've never heard anybody insist on Jesus having been blond haired and blue eyed, only people that think that people strongly believe that.

[Leo656]

On one of George Carlin's old comedy albums, he used to do skits, and one of them was a skit where he was Jesus being interviewed in modern times. It was pretty funny, especially when he started talking about the things he finds absurd about Christianity.

"Those Buddhists seem a lot happier. I mean, that guy's laughin', I'm up on the cross!"

Good bit, check it out if you can find it.

As far as the idea of faith as a concept... I mean, to a point I get it, and it's a nice idea. But at the same time, people like me who've been heavily and thoroughly traumatized by life... we need a little bit more than a promise just to hang on and keep our heads up, y'know?

I mean, that's what "faith" is, a promise. "It'll all be okay." Alright... except parents promise to stop beating their kids, all that, and they persist anyway. So eventually, you just stop believing in promises altogether. "Give me something I can hold in my hands, then we'll talk."

I mean, can you blame people? As I've alluded to, a lot of people who are of devout faith... in their eyes, that faith has been rewarded already, because they have great and carefree lives. But that's of little solace to people who are suffering. They just see how other people have Everything, and they have Nothing, and then it's like, "Well... guess God just hates me." By that point, only something tangible can ever really snap you out of thinking things are hopeless.

"20 years in Gotham... we've seen what promises are worth."

Sorry, couldn't help it.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

This is always like the "war on Christmas" people. People swear it's a real thing, but nobody can point to any examples. Just like I've never heard anybody insist on Jesus having been blond haired and blue eyed, only people that think that people strongly believe that.

I haven't heard anyone claim that either. I've just seen it often in images/depictions of Jesus. But perhaps some of them depict him looking different from that I dunno. I am not an expert on Christianity.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Prowler

I haven't heard anyone claim that either. I've just seen it often in images/depictions of Jesus. But perhaps some of them depict him looking different from that I dunno. I am not an expert on Christianity.

Definitely he is depicted that way more often than not but yeah. 0 instances have I seen or heard anyone, like, vigorously defending that depiction. Even mildly, come to think of it. Ever. My whole life.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Definitely he is depicted that way more often than not but yeah. 0 instances have I seen or heard anyone, like, vigorously defending that depiction. Even mildly, come to think of it. Ever. My whole life.

South Korea has a rather high Christian population despite being an East Asian country.

Jokingly, I once asked my Korean friend if they pray to Korean Jesus. He understood the reference and just laughed "nope lol".

I guess the way Jesus is portrayed doesn't change all over the world.

[Andrew NDB]

"21 Jump Street" taught me that there is such a thing as "Korean Jesus," so maybe?

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

"21 Jump Street" taught me that there is such a thing as "Korean Jesus," so maybe?

That might be the movie where the reference comes from.

But no, according to my friend, Koreans don't consider Jesus to be Korean or even remotely East Asian looking.

Would be silly considering everyone knows he was born in the territory that's Israel/Palestine today.

[Leo656]

I thought Jesus was Chinese? That's what I was taught.

[Prowler]

Well, so much **** gets made in China. It's possible Jesus is from there as well.