When did The Simpsons get bad? - Page 5

*ZariusTwo* · 05-04-2022, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

For me, it's Hot Chicks With Nice Boobs

That follows you everywhere too

~~Leo656~~ · 05-04-2022, 01:07 PM

Wish I could follow them everywhere but then you get slapped with a restraining order.

*CyberCubed* · 05-04-2022, 04:10 PM

Seasons 1-9 are the original run, but Seasons 10, and select eps of Seasons 11-15 are ok too. But I wouldn't recommend any full season after 9.

~~AquaParade~~ · 05-04-2022, 09:42 PM

The Lego episode from later on is pretty good.

*Prowler* · 05-10-2022, 12:27 AM

What season was the episode Maude died? 11?

I think that might have been the point where I thought things were starting to get silly.

I didn't care about Maude or anything, but the idea of killing her off just seemed bizarre to me. That's when Flanders started to go crazy. Before that he was just the friendly and polite Simpsons neighbour who just happened to be a little too religious for my taste. I believe the term Flanderization was born around that time.

After Maude died, you had Homer and Flanders go to Vegas and hang out with hookers. That's not something I've ever expected Flanders to do :lol

There's also a time where Flanders falls in love with another woman but keeps thinking of Maude because he can't move on from her. That was a strange episode too.

If you're going to do something as risky as killing off a side character then you need a good payoff to justify that decision. Maude dying did not make Flanders a better character at all. So what exactly did her death contribute to the show?

~~Leo656~~ · 05-10-2022, 12:33 AM

Fox saved a tiny bit of money by not having to fly her voice actor across the country to record her lines. That was the only reason they did it. She wanted a raise to cover her travel expenses, they refused, and rather than compromise they just killed off her character. Which was stupid because they eventually reached an agreement for more money anyway, but they obviously couldn't un-kill Maude, which is why she showed up more and more often as a ghost or in flashback episodes as years went on.

One of the pettiest things to ever happen in the history of television, without question.

*Prowler* · 05-10-2022, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

Fox saved a tiny bit of money by not having to fly her voice actor across the country to record her lines. That was the only reason they did it. She wanted a raise to cover her travel expenses, they refused, and rather than compromise they just killed off her character. Which was stupid because they eventually reached an agreement for more money anyway, but they obviously couldn't un-kill Maude, which is why she showed up more and more often as a ghost or in flashback episodes as years went on.

One of the pettiest things to ever happen in the history of television, without question.

...I can't believe that's what really happened. That's just ridiculous. They should have handled the situation and been better at negotiating an agreement. I guess it is no wonder the series has become trash in the current century.

Didn't Family Guy kill Brian a few years ago? But he came back to life again shortly afterwards?

superstaff · 05-10-2022, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler

...I can't believe that's what really happened. That's just ridiculous. They should have handled the situation and been better at negotiating an agreement. I guess it is no wonder the series has become trash in the current century.

It's a hint of what's to come, if you ask me. The writing staff seems pretty petty nowadays, at least when they're not bending the knee.

Quote:

Didn't Family Guy kill Brian a few years ago? But he came back to life again shortly afterwards?

Yeah, though that seemed to be more of a joke since he was revived literally two episodes later. It was pretty pointless to me.

~~AquaParade~~ · 05-10-2022, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

Fox saved a tiny bit of money by not having to fly her voice actor across the country to record her lines. That was the only reason they did it. She wanted a raise to cover her travel expenses, they refused, and rather than compromise they just killed off her character. Which was stupid because they eventually reached an agreement for more money anyway, but they obviously couldn't un-kill Maude, which is why she showed up more and more often as a ghost or in flashback episodes as years went on.

One of the pettiest things to ever happen in the history of television, without question.

Great piece of trivia. Didn’t know.

I didn’t like how they put that death on Homer. For some reason, “Homer’s Enemy” doesn’t bother me, but that episode does.

I mean, I don’t even think the incident was really Homer’s fault. It’s obviously a safety issue, which should be the arena’s responsibility, imo. But the show just decides it’s funnier to have Homer be “responsible” for her death, which doesn’t serve the character well.

superstaff · 05-10-2022, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I mean, I don’t even think the incident was really Homer’s fault. It’s obviously a safety issue, which should be the arena’s responsibility, imo. But the show just decides it’s funnier to have Homer be “responsible” for her death, which doesn’t serve the character well.

You said it yourself. They thought it'd be funnier. Because Homer is a moron, so him messing up and killing someone (in their minds) is hilarious, particularly a 'religious nut' like Maude.

It's incredibly mean-spirited, both the feud between the VA and the staff, and the episode itself. It's shock value schlock.

*Coola Yagami* · 05-10-2022, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superstaff

You said it yourself. They thought it'd be funnier. Because Homer is a moron, so him messing up and killing someone (in their minds) is hilarious, particularly a 'religious nut' like Maude.

It's incredibly mean-spirited, both the feud between the VA and the staff, and the episode itself. It's shock value schlock.

Didn't they add insult to injury by saying Homer's car blocked the ambulance from coming in to possibly resuscitate Maude?

cammy85 · 05-10-2022, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Didn't they add insult to injury by saying Homer's car blocked the ambulance from coming in to possibly resuscitate Maude?

That didn't make any sense since Dr. Hibbert pronounced her dead on the spot. That would be a Dr. Nick level mistake if they actually could resuscitate her.

*Prowler* · 05-10-2022, 01:06 PM

Yep Homer not feeling guilty about indirectly being somewhat responsible for Maude dying never sat too well with me. I guess that's when he began turning into Peter Griffin.

~~Leo656~~ · 05-10-2022, 02:49 PM

I was going from memory, so I Googled and found a ScreenRant article that explains it rather succinctly:
https://screenrant.com/simpsons-maud...killed-reason/

Quote:

Maggie Roswell had been part of the voice cast of The Simpsons since season 1, but in 1994 she moved from Los Angeles to Denver with her family. Because of this, Roswell had to travel to Los Angeles twice a week to record her lines for the show (she voiced Maude, Helen Lovejoy, Miss Hoover, and Luann Van Houten), which eventually became an expensive obstacle. Roswell requested a pay raise in 1999, but Fox refused and she quit the show. As a result, Fox wrote Maude Flanders out, and Marcia Mitzman Gaven was hired as replacement.

superstaff · 05-10-2022, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

I was going from memory, so I Googled and found a ScreenRant article that explains it rather succinctly:
https://screenrant.com/simpsons-maud...killed-reason/

How dare she put her FAMILY before the show!? The answer isn't to either grant her the wage demands or gracefully replace her. Nope. Best to be petty, and send a 'message' by killing her character off. Disgusting stuff.

~~Leo656~~ · 05-10-2022, 03:10 PM

Especially since the whole cast ended up getting raises multiple times since then, and eventually she did too which is why they later had her come back.

The whole thing was just so damned petty and stupid, and showed a tremendous lack of foresight on the part of Fox. But then, the Simpsons creative staff have made "lack of foresight" kind of their trademark over the years, since they've repeatedly and constantly done things they somehow didn't expect people to hate, and then act oblivious when people end up hating said things.

They've just been spinning their wheels for the longest time, existing just to exist. Sad.

*Prowler* · 05-11-2022, 03:35 PM

It does seem like The Simpsons didn't deal well with the transition to the 21st century. Changes in writing staff didn't help of course but I wonder if the problem isn't a bit deeper and more complex than that. I mean, Matt Groening is the creator. He must have some say in the direction of the series still or did so until sometime ago? He could have pulled the plug on it several years ago. Does he really not mind how far his series has fallen? Did creating Futurama make him pay less attention to the Simpsons?

But yeah even though they're still around, it's easy to forget The Simpsons are still airing to this day. The show has become pretty much irrelevant in the last 15 years or so. The movie should have been its swan song.

In the last several years I've seen people and the media discussing about the latest Family Guy and South Park episodes, but The Simpsons? Nope. The very last Simpsons episode to draw some attention must have been the Lady Gaga one. And it didn't get any positive feedback afaik.

TV shows, whether they're live action or cartoon series, should never go on for over 3 decades. The only ones that should last that long are some long running anime series such as One Piece which are adaptations from a manga anyway.

Other than that, the only series that can handle hundreds or thousands of episodes are those who are built around having rotating casts of characters and settings every 2 years or so.

The Simpsons fits neither of the above. It's an episodic comedy series. Eventually people run out of good jokes and stories to tell. And that's when the quality begins to decline.

member_removed · 05-12-2022, 12:50 AM

The really stoopid thing was eventually Fox agreed to let her work from Denver. She'd record her lines in a local studio. She was back on the show by 2002.

I don't know why they couldn't come to this agreement in 1999.

superstaff · 05-12-2022, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by member_removed

The really stoopid thing was eventually Fox agreed to let her work from Denver. She'd record her lines in a local studio. She was back on the show by 2002.

I don't know why they couldn't come to this agreement in 1999.

The answer is that there's a lot of people out there who are not sensible and civil. If you ruffle their feathers in any way, they'll want to cut your throat in retaliation. This seems to be the case with the studio/staff during this incident, and many others over the years.

*Prowler* · 05-15-2022, 04:51 PM

What was even the first episode to do the whole celebrity guest thing wrong?

Bret Hart was in a Simpsons episode back in the early 90s and no one has a problem with such episode. Leonard Nimoy was in the monorail episode too and that one is a classic.

The first instance I can think of is that episode where Lisa becomes a vegetarian and has a conversation with Paul McCartney and his wife.

The Simpsons used to parody and make fun of celebrities. They'd even parody their characters. McBain is clearly based on Schwarzenegger while Tatum is based on Mike Tyson.

But, after a certain point, celebrity guests just took the focal point of episodes and the show just began kissing their asses.

05-12-2022, 12:50 AM	#98
member_removed Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 499	The really stoopid thing was eventually Fox agreed to let her work from Denver. She'd record her lines in a local studio. She was back on the show by 2002. I don't know why they couldn't come to this agreement in 1999. __________________ You take the ugly one! No, you take the ugly one! I'll take the ugly one! Which one's the ugly one?

05-04-2022, 01:07 PM	#82
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Wish I could follow them everywhere but then you get slapped with a restraining order.

05-04-2022, 04:10 PM	#83
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,881	Seasons 1-9 are the original run, but Seasons 10, and select eps of Seasons 11-15 are ok too. But I wouldn't recommend any full season after 9.

05-04-2022, 09:42 PM	#84
~~AquaParade~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 8,450	The Lego episode from later on is pretty good.

05-10-2022, 12:27 AM	#85
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	What season was the episode Maude died? 11? I think that might have been the point where I thought things were starting to get silly. I didn't care about Maude or anything, but the idea of killing her off just seemed bizarre to me. That's when Flanders started to go crazy. Before that he was just the friendly and polite Simpsons neighbour who just happened to be a little too religious for my taste. I believe the term Flanderization was born around that time. After Maude died, you had Homer and Flanders go to Vegas and hang out with hookers. That's not something I've ever expected Flanders to do :lol There's also a time where Flanders falls in love with another woman but keeps thinking of Maude because he can't move on from her. That was a strange episode too. If you're going to do something as risky as killing off a side character then you need a good payoff to justify that decision. Maude dying did not make Flanders a better character at all. So what exactly did her death contribute to the show?

05-10-2022, 12:33 AM	#86
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Fox saved a tiny bit of money by not having to fly her voice actor across the country to record her lines. That was the only reason they did it. She wanted a raise to cover her travel expenses, they refused, and rather than compromise they just killed off her character. Which was stupid because they eventually reached an agreement for more money anyway, but they obviously couldn't un-kill Maude, which is why she showed up more and more often as a ghost or in flashback episodes as years went on. One of the pettiest things to ever happen in the history of television, without question.

05-10-2022, 01:06 PM	#93
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	Yep Homer not feeling guilty about indirectly being somewhat responsible for Maude dying never sat too well with me. I guess that's when he began turning into Peter Griffin.

05-10-2022, 03:10 PM	#96
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Especially since the whole cast ended up getting raises multiple times since then, and eventually she did too which is why they later had her come back. The whole thing was just so damned petty and stupid, and showed a tremendous lack of foresight on the part of Fox. But then, the Simpsons creative staff have made "lack of foresight" kind of their trademark over the years, since they've repeatedly and constantly done things they somehow didn't expect people to hate, and then act oblivious when people end up hating said things. They've just been spinning their wheels for the longest time, existing just to exist. Sad.

05-11-2022, 03:35 PM	#97
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	It does seem like The Simpsons didn't deal well with the transition to the 21st century. Changes in writing staff didn't help of course but I wonder if the problem isn't a bit deeper and more complex than that. I mean, Matt Groening is the creator. He must have some say in the direction of the series still or did so until sometime ago? He could have pulled the plug on it several years ago. Does he really not mind how far his series has fallen? Did creating Futurama make him pay less attention to the Simpsons? But yeah even though they're still around, it's easy to forget The Simpsons are still airing to this day. The show has become pretty much irrelevant in the last 15 years or so. The movie should have been its swan song. In the last several years I've seen people and the media discussing about the latest Family Guy and South Park episodes, but The Simpsons? Nope. The very last Simpsons episode to draw some attention must have been the Lady Gaga one. And it didn't get any positive feedback afaik. TV shows, whether they're live action or cartoon series, should never go on for over 3 decades. The only ones that should last that long are some long running anime series such as One Piece which are adaptations from a manga anyway. Other than that, the only series that can handle hundreds or thousands of episodes are those who are built around having rotating casts of characters and settings every 2 years or so. The Simpsons fits neither of the above. It's an episodic comedy series. Eventually people run out of good jokes and stories to tell. And that's when the quality begins to decline.

05-15-2022, 04:51 PM	#100
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,999	What was even the first episode to do the whole celebrity guest thing wrong? Bret Hart was in a Simpsons episode back in the early 90s and no one has a problem with such episode. Leonard Nimoy was in the monorail episode too and that one is a classic. The first instance I can think of is that episode where Lisa becomes a vegetarian and has a conversation with Paul McCartney and his wife. The Simpsons used to parody and make fun of celebrities. They'd even parody their characters. McBain is clearly based on Schwarzenegger while Tatum is based on Mike Tyson. But, after a certain point, celebrity guests just took the focal point of episodes and the show just began kissing their asses.