Do you believe in student loan forgiveness?

[Andrew NDB]

And the idea that the only way to get a good job is to get a student loan and go to democrat indoctrin -- I mean, college is preposterous. Has no one heard of trade schools? We need electricians and welders and HVAC people just as much or more than marine biologists or whatever else.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'm simply obligated to point out that that is the entire point of having taxes in the first place.

Now frankly, I'm a pretty firm believer that "All Taxation Is Theft", because nobody ever ASKED me if I wanted to contribute to "society's needs", and if they did ask I'd say "No", because I consider myself to be more "in need" than the next person, and I'm also just plain pretty selfish.

HOWEVER. By definition the very purpose of taxes is so "tax payers can pay for someone else's bills." And since most people are exactly like me and only contribute to the greater good when forced at proverbial gunpoint, it is what it is. People have to be "forced" to pay taxes because if it were voluntary then nobody would, and without the monies provided via tax collection then society itself would completely shut down. Even a Scrooge like me understands and accepts that even though I don't like it.

So unless you wanna go completely off the grid and live off the land like a lumberjack, you gotta just accept that by paying taxes at all you're paying someone else's bills. That's entirely how it works.

Not to be a dick but nobody asked the taxpayers in your state if they'd be fine paying into your disability claim, either, and I'm sure if they had been asked most people would say "No, I don't even know that guy". But I'm quite sure that you're grateful for the services provided by those peoples' tax dollars, all the same.

Just saying. I abhor taxes as a rule but they're a necessary evil and you don't get to pick and choose where the money goes, that isn't how it works.

I paid into the disability fund at all my jobs... can I get a refund cuz I'm sure that was more to live on than what I'm getting now. I paid in a lot longer than I've been collecting. And frankly, I'd be working if it wasn't for being taxed to death & the "help" worked right instead of how it currently "works".

Cities & all of civilization would be fine without most taxes. Pretty much all of the taxes could go away & the fat/bullsh!t would end... or towns would close, people would move and someone else would buy that land for pennies on the dollar & start over.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by robertfiduciary

I may have just mentioned that American currently has the LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE it's had in the last 50 years

Unemployment under Trump began at 4.7% and he took it down to 3.5% immediately before the pandemic hit.

Then the pandemic popped up and the democrat agenda and all of the other nonsense that occluded as many of his accomplishments as possible hit in their smear campaign against an "America first" President. And now "Biden's unemployment rate is 3.6%. Your doing what all agenda-fools do - omitting the truth about any number you can use, hoping that people can't interpret it.

I'll say this now to anyone reading this thread - f$#@ "robertfiduciary". He pushes some strange agenda, and he twists facts calling you too dumb to look into them on your own, or to look into them with real context.

I could pick apart your entire Associate Degree-level-public-administration analysis, but every time you pop up you bore me to death.

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

https://www.instagram.com/p/ChqFCTIsnok/

Biden ignores the question and implies that the only people not burdened by student loans own multi-million dollar companies. Just another example of how oblivious these politicians are to the reality that the majority of Americans live.

I paid my loans, and I also pay my taxes. I would like my $10k, please.

Exactly. My Bachelors degree and my Masters degree were funded and resolved responsibly as well. Where is our "relief"? The only thing that liberal policy does is keep sinking people on handouts and in places to smoke crack in Seattle and L.A.

To any of the board leftists still left here - you think that the center and the right are your enemies, but your leaders are calling you dumb and stringing you along. Like Chuck Schumer with a stick pointer and a poster mobilizing the peasant revolts in the streets. This is your big moment, @$$holes! Congrats! Futhermore? Your "leaders" are the rich elite that you claim to hate so much. F'n idiots.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

And the idea that the only way to get a good job is to get a student loan and go to democrat indoctrin -- I mean, college is preposterous. Has no one heard of trade schools? We need electricians and welders and HVAC people just as much or more than marine biologists or whatever else.

Yeah, but again, that's society.

To hear a college grad tell it, my buddy who owns the plumbing business is "a failure who has to be up to his elbows in sh*t every day just to make ends meet", but from what I understand it's actually not that bad of a gig. And again, he takes home more than most of our college grad friends do.

Or here's a more personal anecdote from back when I was in the moving business. One day we're unloading into somebody's house on a Summer afternoon, a blonde Karen was walking down the street with her son and as she passed by us she said out loud, "See honey? THAT'S what happens if you don't go to college!" First of all, the kid was like, 8, so what a dumb thing to say in the first place. But meanwhile, you know that when that dumb c*nt ended up moving from her mansion into a bigger mansion she was very grateful for those "losers" who never went to college, because Lord knows Karen isn't gonna pack her own boxes or carry her own armoire.

But yeah, it's society. "You HAVE to go to college or you're a failure." They drill that idea into your head in Kindergarten and every day forever after. No, it just means if you don't go to college you're not 100% guaranteed to make seven figures by sitting in the air conditioning, but to be fair you're not promised that even with a college degree, anyways.

More and more people are becoming aware that you can have a very happy and financially successful life without an expensive degree. But that's the problem, you find that sh*t out on your own; the "official" story according to parents and teachers and guidance counselors is "Go to college, or be called A Failure."

That needs to change. It won't, but it should.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

I paid into the disability fund at all my jobs... can I get a refund cuz I'm sure that was more to live on than what I'm getting now. I paid in a lot longer than I've been collecting. And frankly, I'd be working if it wasn't for being taxed to death & the "help" worked right instead of how it currently "works".

I'd be willing to entertain hard data, but I doubt it. I know what I paid into my unemployment every month for the decade I worked at my last job, because I still have all my pay stubs. The two years I collected unemployment during the pandemic, I got paid way, WAY more than I ever paid in, and frankly more than I ever earned at the job.

On one hand, I absolutely do not feel guilty because I worked since I was 17 and definitely needed an extended vacation anyways, and if it's paid for by Uncle Sam then that's even better. Also, to somewhat echo your sentiments, "I paid into the system and now I'm just collecting my due."

But I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I paid into the unemployment system anywhere near what they paid me. I basically raped them for two years, it's not even close. I paid in a pittance compared to what they gave me, that's just the facts. "The taxpayers" essentially bought me a bunch of stuff on eBay for two years; I can pretend otherwise and say "Well, I paid into the system" over and over again, but the fact remains that it simply isn't equitable and that monetary difference had to have come from somewhere.

No guilt, no regrets, Just Sayin'. I'm pretty sure it works that way for just about everyone, whether it be unemployment or disability or what have you. But I mean, your situation is Your Situation and I don't have that data.

[IndigoErth]

Do I believe in it? Ehhhh.... yes and no. On one hand, taking those loans was a choice, on the other hand it is shameful what a higher education, just to try to have a decent chance in life, costs... not just now, but when most of us were younger too and just gets worse and worse. People shouldn't have to place bets and wager their financial well being just to get any chance.

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

I paid into the disability fund at all my jobs...

And what age did you quit working? You think that somehow covered disability for the rest of your life? Not a chance. Other tax payers are footing that bill and will continue to.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Has no one heard of trade schools? We need electricians and welders and HVAC people just as much or more than marine biologists or whatever else.

Sure, and plenty of people do that. Are all people supposed to and suddenly we're badly lacking needed people with higher educations because something else was safer financially speaking? Or we lose skilled talent because only rich dumbasses can get big degrees largely meant to impress their parents social circle. "Meet my son the doctor! He's as dumb as a brick, but we are donors to the school so they let him slide!"

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Leo656

ALL of these other things are just deflection and distraction.

Pretty much. I still say in flation is a myth. it's just an optical illusion. IF Gas one day costs 200$'s per car, your wage will be raised to match. someone gets to say 'look what I did!' but prices never go down. so, basically, it's myth piled on myth to make politicians look good.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'd be willing to entertain hard data, but I doubt it. I know what I paid into my unemployment every month for the decade I worked at my last job, because I still have all my pay stubs. The two years I collected unemployment during the pandemic, I got paid way, WAY more than I ever paid in, and frankly more than I ever earned at the job.

On one hand, I absolutely do not feel guilty because I worked since I was 17 and definitely needed an extended vacation anyways, and if it's paid for by Uncle Sam then that's even better. Also, to somewhat echo your sentiments, "I paid into the system and now I'm just collecting my due."

But I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I paid into the unemployment system anywhere near what they paid me. I basically raped them for two years, it's not even close. I paid in a pittance compared to what they gave me, that's just the facts. "The taxpayers" essentially bought me a bunch of stuff on eBay for two years; I can pretend otherwise and say "Well, I paid into the system" over and over again, but the fact remains that it simply isn't equitable and that monetary difference had to have come from somewhere.

No guilt, no regrets, Just Sayin'. I'm pretty sure it works that way for just about everyone, whether it be unemployment or disability or what have you. But I mean, your situation is Your Situation and I don't have that data.

I got zero "covid" money for 2 years but I've been paying more for everything... and my first job was when I was 15. I have most of the pay stubs up until the job that refused to give me physical copies for my records seeing as you can't access the work intranet once you're no longer employed there... lol. And I wish I was working & didn't have a brain tumor. I'd love to get back to work & not be stuck broke sitting on my butt, scrounging to do a few shows here & there.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Do I believe in it? Ehhhh.... yes and no. On one hand, taking those loans was a choice, on the other hand it is shameful what a higher education, just to try to have a decent chance in life, costs... not just now, but when most of us were younger too and just gets worse and worse. People shouldn't have to place bets and wager their financial well being just to get any chance.

its not that risky. You just make a choice, more liberal indoctrination while binge drinking every wednesday through Tuesday & then choosing to not pay your bills before buying expensive toys (like brand new cell phones every 6 months... or make good choices, take some classes & choose a degree thats actually useful & then make a budget & pay your bills...

And what age did you quit working? You think that somehow covered disability for the rest of your life? Not a chance. Other tax payers are footing that bill and will continue to.

I had to stop working 7 years ago. I got zero money for 4 years. I'm 3 years on disability. I'm still a tax payer... every time I buy stuff from a store, I pay tax. I still have monthly bills which are all taxed. We aren't talking about "the rest of my life", just currently to date and yeah, I think I've paid enough into the system over the years I worked to cover 3 years of disability. I could drop dead tomorrow & not use another dime of it. There is a difference between disability & lazy free loading dumba$$ college student loans not being paid by the people who took the loan. When I owed on my car, if I didn't pay for that, the bank would come take it. No one would support a taxpayer funded auto loan program. I, as a tax payer, did not force anyone to go to college & sign for thousands of dollars of loan money to do so. None of us should be paying those loans yet here we are in PedOTUS gets "his" way.

Sure, and plenty of people do that. Are all people supposed to and suddenly we're badly lacking needed people with higher educations because something else was safer financially speaking?

The Government, Biden, does not have the authority to transfer the debt from those who took it out to the backs of already struggling tax payers.

[Leo656]

Google tells me that it is federal law that an employer must provide access to your pay stubs and records. Granted, though, I didn't dig too deep into it.

As everyone constantly tells me whenever I'm in a spot, call Legal Aid Services and get that sh*t straightened out.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

Pretty much. I still say in flation is a myth. it's just an optical illusion. IF Gas one day costs 200$'s per car, your wage will be raised to match.

Only for the people making minimum wage at the bottom, and not by much if at all. People in the middle do not see a bump because of the price of gas, not at all.

[oldmanwinters]

I paid off the last of my debt this past March in regular monthly installments…

So yeah, I just figured it was inevitable the feds would pitch a hasty bail out offer as soon as that happened.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Sure, and plenty of people do that. Are all people supposed to and suddenly we're badly lacking needed people with higher educations because something else was safer financially speaking? Or we lose skilled talent because only rich dumbasses can get big degrees largely meant to impress their parents social circle. "Meet my son the doctor! He's as dumb as a brick, but we are donors to the school so they let him slide!"

I don't think the balance is right. If your building has an HVAC problem or a pipe issue, you'll be waiting weeks, maybe months to get it taken care of because of trade worker shortages. Conversely, if your kid thinks they're the opposite sex, 20 social workers are standing by to affirm their new gender, no problem (or any one of a hundred examples).

[1987]

Originally Posted by robertfiduciary

Just a quick Biden "highlight reel:"

-$10k in student loan debt eliminated
-Inflation Reduction Act (biggest climate bill in history)
-American Rescue Plan
-Infrastructure package
-Gun reform package
-CHIPS
-PACT
-Most jobs ever
-Lowest unemployment in 50 years
-al Qaeda leader killed

Also, I'm not a betting man, but if I were I would be willing to wager I've taken more college (and Grad School) economics courses than you have.

Which doesn't prove anything, sure.

But I guarantee these policy changes of President Biden's will be more of a net positive then a net negative (especially for families struggling with student loans).

And if you have a minute (since I can't seem to find it! Weird...), maybe you could direct me to the message board thread where you're just so full of anger and rage about the 1.9 TRILLION (of OUR MONEY) the previous administration gave to it's wealthy donors in the form of tax breaks?

Just, like, a link or something. Something to show how *equally* enraged you were then. I mean, I'm sure it happened. I'm sure you were BIG MAD then. Right?

Loving that Republicans want to run in 2022 on "Child victims of rape must have their rapist's baby." And "We must stop Democrats before they give out more education debt relief!"

Nope. That’s a leftwing conspiracy theory, none of that stuff Biden is doing is actually good for the U.S. Every radical liberal policy like this just further creates big government dependency and makes it easier for the UN/WEF to swoop in while the peasants are vulnerable and usher in a New World Order. I mean if you truly love communism and being controlled by the elites that much, then maybe it is a good thing for you, I guess?

TBH it wouldn’t be such a big deal if Biden wasn’t already sending millions and billions and trillions of U.S. taxpayer dollars to Ukraine while we’re in a recession and gas prices are at an all time high while they try to ban gas vehicles and force you to buy electric vehicles under a green new deal that you must pay taxes on.

All this does is further divide, just like abortion. The left went too radical with it at 9 months. Now the “nazis” have taken away their freedoms, and those same “nazis” are outraged about having to pay an average $2,000 per taxpayer for crazed leftists’ useless “gender studies degrees” and sets a bad precedent of what’s to come. Is this some form of revenge? Midterms right around the corner…

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by 1987

All this does is further divide, just like abortion. The left went too radical with it at 9 months.

Never once in the history of Ever has this happened, except in cases where the baby wasn't going to survive more than ten minutes after being born anyway, which most people would call an "extreme circumstance."

This has become a very loud right-wing talking point despite nobody anywhere asking for "abortions at 9 months". Pregnancy is an absolutely horrific ordeal that destroys a woman's body long before she ever gives birth (which incidentally is a huge reason why most women nowadays don't want to get pregnant in the first place); nobody anywhere wants to carry a baby for 9 months only to NOT have a baby to show for it all.

I think what has you and others confused is how there are in fact some women - and doctors - would rather terminate a late-term pregnancy once it's obvious the baby would be born without most of its skull, or something horrific like that. In which case the baby would suffer horrifically for mere minutes before dying anyway. Many people would consider actually giving birth to the baby more cruel than terminating it pre-birth. Depends who you ask.

But again, that is the ONLY time anyone has EVER said anything about "abortions at 9 months", so I don't see what the sh*t that has to do with a single goddamn thing whatsoever. Even the most ardent supporters of abortion rights generally agree that "20-something weeks" should be the cutoff point, AND even a ton of right-wingers would call it mercy to see the baby without a skull be terminated before birth no matter how far along, because they're not jackals. Some of the most anti-abortion people I know would still call that "an extenuating circumstance" and allow it in that sort of situation. It's not something anyone actually wants to happen, it's a literal worst-case scenario and that's all it's ever been.

You create this imaginary scenario of fully-pregnant mothers walking into a clinic so someone can just rip their fully-developed healthy baby out of them and then mangle it... except this never, ever, EVER happens.

And then The Right accuses The Left of "fear-mongering" and "making sh*t up for attention/distraction", and you wonder why it's so hard to be taken seriously. Good grief! I don't care what side of the political aisle anyone is on, but when they repeatedly insist fairy tales are Reality, I drop a red flag.

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

I don't think tax payers should pay for anyone elses bills.

So what's Medicare then? And unemployment benefit? And so on.

Here in the UK there has been a change in the demographic and application since the university fees per year were allowed to grow up to I think £9000 per year now. Thing is here, I don't know about the US, you only start to pay back those debts once you start earning over a certain amount per year (I think it's around 24k GBP) and if you haven't paid it all back after 30 years of graduating, the debt is wiped out anyhow. Estimates put only about 30% of current students will actually pay back their entire debt.

And sometimes those aren't insignificant qualifications, care assistants, teachers and nurses can all start their career on salaries lower than the threshold for example.

[Andrew NDB]

I just think there is some common ground. In at least that the sickest among the left might unwrinkle their nose and go "OK, fine, by this month (3? 4?) is OK to stop allowing abortions." As in less than 9. But that needs to be hashed out before we resume talking about some kind of federal mandate, without Roe V Wade in place. There is literally nowhere to start a new dialogue if it's just "rahhhhhhh!!! No! Anytime anywhere! Even up to labor!" Which is literally, actually what they're saying right now and nobody on the left is willing to even say "you have a point there," of the people saying that's nuts. It is all or nothing for these guys. And even if I am wholeheartedly pro-abortion, that stance isn't going to get them anywhere. And it shouldn't. Because it's sickening.

Personally I think the left (well, in the government) love this. Keep the discussion purely surface level and they never need to even debate the finer points. Either you're for or against, no need to get into dirty discussions of if this means the 9 month pregnancies obese derelict women didn't even knew they had and so on, or worse.

[Leo656]

If you think only one side is playing the "All Or Nothing" game on ANY political topic these days, you simply haven't been paying attention. The only people speaking out loud on any topic are the extremists, who are ironically the ones who most ought to sit down and shut up. That goes for the politicians as well as their constituents.

It's a f*cking joke anymore, what passes for "political discourse" in this country. Thanks, Obama*.

*This "all or nothing" bullsh*t started when it was collectively decided without conversation that if you weren't all-in on Obama then you were a racist neo-Nazi. That's where it started, and it's just gotten worse ever since. So yeah, Thanks Obama.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I just think there is some common ground. In at least that the sickest among the left might unwrinkle their nose and go "OK, fine, by this month (3? 4?) is OK to stop allowing abortions." As in less than 9. But that needs to be hashed out before we resume talking about some kind of federal mandate, without Roe V Wade in place. There is literally nowhere to start a new dialogue if it's just "rahhhhhhh!!! No! Anytime anywhere! Even up to labor!" Which is literally, actually what they're saying right now and nobody on the left is willing to even say "you have a point there," of the people saying that's nuts. It is all or nothing for these guys. And even if I am wholeheartedly pro-abortion, that stance isn't going to get them anywhere. And it shouldn't. Because it's sickening.

Personally I think the left (well, in the government) love this. Keep the discussion purely surface level and they never need to even debate the finer points. Either you're for or against, no need to get into dirty discussions of if this means the 9 month pregnancies obese derelict women didn't even knew they had and so on, or worse.

The middle ground is here: stop murdering new life for convenience. Take all proper precautions prior to becoming pregnant. Simple really. Its not at all hard to do. In the mid 90s, the left fought for free condoms & they've been free or damn cheap since then so there is no excuse or need to murder the unborn.

As to student loans: this benefits 60% of borrowers who can actually afford to PAY their loans yet choose not to do so. The poorest of borrowers are still going to pay more elsewhere by more than their owed loans than before now.

https://www.louderwithcrowder.com/ma...-trans-catfish <links to MSM sources that prove this loan "forgiveness" is terrible (& more)...

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

The middle ground is here: stop murdering new life for convenience.

And more than half of the country basically says to that, "No" and "I don't think it is murdering!" and then we don't get anywhere.