Best fighter of th Turtles?

[heretic888]

Originally Posted by Sewer Bull

Hmm... heretic, how about editing your initial post instead of writing new ones after a few minutes?

My bad.

Oy... Back to your old habits, eh, Heretic? Remember what happened those months ago when you trolled around through threads? As I recall, people didn't like it and it nearly got you a warning.

You're extremely biased. Just deal with it. I may give a bit of extra attention to Leo, but you my friend... when it comes to over-gratifying a favorite character, you take the cake.

Your Palladium stats may hold some weight, but so does just about any TMNT stats that have been legally distributed into any TMNT product.

Here's a screen cap of recent stats for the boys.

As you can see, it doesn't totally match the RPG stats yet it's just as valid if it's legally displayed in a TMNT game.

And like I said, there are mathematical errors in the Palladium book. Certain stats don't add up with the skill bonuses and such, so, really, the info is not completely reliable.

And yes, I feel you abuse your martial arts knowledge because you seem to use it only to highlight Mikey and cast the rest of the boys in his shadow.


I think Mikey is a great character. Really, I do. I infact even created a special thread for him in the art forum (in here) because I honestly do feel he's the most under-rated of the four.
But when you post such ridiculously biased posts of Mikey like you seem to always do, it really doesn't do him much justice as you may think. All it does is just over-glorify him, and people can see right through that.
I'm all for supporting Mikey, but if you continue to keep raising Mikey on this fanciful pedestal you've created for him, I will not hesitate to knock him off the highhorse you've carefuly put him on.



With that said, I feel we should continue with our discussion on who's the second best fighter since Anarky was helpful enough to give us the official heads up that Leo is indeed the best. End of story with that. If there is anymore arguments on who ranks as the number one fighter, I will see to it that this thread gets locked.

[Machias Banshee]

Christ, I come to check for PMs and I see this bullsh!t.


I say that Both of you have your biases and both are close-minded in your ways of listening to other people's opinions.

Disagree with me? Fine. But Don't bring down the thread for everyone else. There are fans of Other characters on the board. Don't wreck it for THEM.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Ryona

Oy... Back to your old habits, eh, Heretic? Remember what happened those months ago when you trolled around through threads? As I recall, people didn't like it and it nearly got you a warning.

So far he seems to be keeping a cool head, and just presenting his facts.

You're extremely biased. Just deal with it. I may give a bit of extra attention to Leo, but you my friend... when it comes to over-gratifying a favorite character, you take the cake.

Um....I dunna....anyone says 2 cross word about leo and they get a textual reaming...

Your Palladium stats may hold some weight, but so does just about any TMNT stats that have been legally distributed into any TMNT product.

Here's a screen cap of recent stats for the boys.

As you can see, it doesn't totally match the RPG stats yet it's just as valid if it's legally displayed in a TMNT game.

I'll give you that, any TMNT profile would be considered valid...Maybe we should take a look at more than 2, compile a hard and fast "over all strengths and weaknesses" chart.

And like I said, there are mathematical errors in the Palladium book. Certain stats don't add up with the skill bonuses and such, so, really, the info is not completely reliable.

I'd like to see this....could you post these errors please?

And yes, I feel you abuse your martial arts knowledge because you seem to use it only to highlight Mikey and cast the rest of the boys in his shadow.

And you've often used certain things to show how Leo trumps all in more than just fighting skill...and have made it clear that those who don't agree are obviously ignorant. He's just stating his thoughts....

I think Mikey is a great character. Really, I do. I infact even created a special thread for him in the art forum (in here) because I honestly do feel he's the most under-rated of the four.
But when you post such ridiculously biased posts of Mikey like you seem to always do, it really doesn't do him much justice as you may think. All it does is just over-glorify him, and people can see right through that.
I'm all for supporting Mikey, but if you continue to keep raising Mikey on this fanciful pedestal you've created for him, I will not hesitate to knock him off the highhorse you've carefuly put him on.

The kid won the Battle Nexus Turnament, he's show he can handle a fight with a legitimate defeate of Kluh, as you said Mikey is underrated (as for most underrated I'd go with Donnie...hey there's a new thread idea...) Mikey might be better than Leo as an improvizational fighter, but in a strategy...Leo trumps Mike. I think we've neglected to take on certain styles of fighting...like who's the best tatitisian? Who's the most powerful? If we have then...whoops....but that could be something to keep the thread alive aside from 2nd best...

With that said, I feel we should continue with our discussion on who's the second best fighter since Anarky was helpful enough to give us the official heads up that Leo is indeed the best. End of story with that. If there is anymore arguments on who ranks as the number one fighter, I will see to it that this thread gets locked.

That seems a bit harsh...and like a psudo-abuse of the powers give you...He may be biased....but having a favorite turtle causes us all to be biased....

As for second best....I dunna....I think aside from maybe Leo, they are all equally matched, depending once again on the environment....

[IceFlash78]

I'm sorry... but this constant mud-racking annoys me.... I want to try to reconcile the chasm between Ryona and Heretic. To me, it just seemed like Heretic was just stating his opinions, and that he was just trying to analzye Ryona's statements from one of her posts where she didn't back up with evidence, or atleast CONCRETE evidence, and was just debating her possible bias or wahtever.

Laird says that Leo is the best figther. That is canon. However, Heretic also proved that The Palladium RPG stats is also canon by showing us emails in which Dan confirmed that the stats are reliable and that Laird approved of them. So we have two conflicting views, both of which is canon. How can both views be right? By analyzing them, and when you do, you can make an interesting conclusion:

The Palladium stats is correct in stating that Mikey has the best overall fighting stats, and that Leo is just a midge behind him. Didn't we agree that out of the turtles, Mikey, while not being the best fighter, has the most potential if only he would focus more?

Indeed, the Palladium stats are missing one vital component: Personality. As most TMNT incarnations show, Mikey is somewhat unfocused in his training (more so in the new show). Leonardo, as we know, is all about training. This seeming insignificant difference in personality can have a huge effect on their fighting abilities. Leo compenstates for his weaker stats by being so focused in fighting that his abilities surpasses Mikey, and Mikey hides his abilities by being so lazy.

This reminds me of a post somebody else made in this topic explaining how in martial arts, the strongest fighter with no focus was always surpassed by weaker ones with more focus.

While I voted for Leo, and believe that he is the best fighter, I wanted to write this in order to reconcile Ryona and Heretic who I feel is quickly turning this good discussion into another mudracking contest like in a episode discussion a while ago at the New Show board.

[Jester]

*applaudes* Well written Iceflash...That's about the most thoughtful post I've read in this thread... Good stuff.

[XERO]

I wonder who Eastman thinks the best fighter is.

Just because he sold his rights to Laird doesn't mean he doesn't have a say in all of this.

[Jester]

True Benny...

[Masked Ninja]

Originally Posted by IceFlash78

Laird says that Leo is the best figther. That is canon. However, Heretic also proved that The Palladium RPG stats is also canon by showing us emails in which Dan confirmed that the stats are reliable and that Laird approved of them. So we have two conflicting views, both of which is canon. How can both views be right? By analyzing them, and when you do, you can make an interesting conclusion:

The Palladium stats is correct in stating that Mikey has the best overall fighting stats, and that Leo is just a midge behind him. Didn't we agree that out of the turtles, Mikey, while not being the best fighter, has the most potential if only he would focus more?

Indeed, the Palladium stats are missing one vital component: Personality. As most TMNT incarnations show, Mikey is somewhat unfocused in his training (more so in the new show). Leonardo, as we know, is all about training. This seeming insignificant difference in personality can have a huge effect on their fighting abilities. Leo compenstates for his weaker stats by being so focused in fighting that his abilities surpasses Mikey, and Mikey hides his abilities by being so lazy.

This reminds me of a post somebody else made in this topic explaining how in martial arts, the strongest fighter with no focus was always surpassed by weaker ones with more focus.

And with that, you've hit my opinion square on the head. Mikey has the potential to be better and his strength/whatever stats would add up higher than Leo (I would think this even without the RPG to back me up, methinks) but it's Leo's love of martial arts that leads him to train more and harder. And thus, he fights better. Whereas Mikey is the best fighter on paper.

Yes. Excellent compromise. *claps*

[Rhane]

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

Christ, I come to check for PMs and I see this bullsh!t.


I say that Both of you have your biases and both are close-minded in your ways of listening to other people's opinions.

Disagree with me? Fine. But Don't bring down the thread for everyone else. There are fans of Other characters on the board. Don't wreck it for THEM.

Bravo. Everyone should stop the fighting and have a friendly debate, not an all out war.

Originally Posted by IceFlash78

Laird says that Leo is the best figther. That is canon. However, Heretic also proved that The Palladium RPG stats is also canon by showing us emails in which Dan confirmed that the stats are reliable and that Laird approved of them. So we have two conflicting views, both of which is canon. How can both views be right? By analyzing them, and when you do, you can make an interesting conclusion:

The Palladium stats is correct in stating that Mikey has the best overall fighting stats, and that Leo is just a midge behind him. Didn't we agree that out of the turtles, Mikey, while not being the best fighter, has the most potential if only he would focus more?

Indeed, the Palladium stats are missing one vital component: Personality. As most TMNT incarnations show, Mikey is somewhat unfocused in his training (more so in the new show). Leonardo, as we know, is all about training. This seeming insignificant difference in personality can have a huge effect on their fighting abilities. Leo compenstates for his weaker stats by being so focused in fighting that his abilities surpasses Mikey, and Mikey hides his abilities by being so lazy.

This reminds me of a post somebody else made in this topic explaining how in martial arts, the strongest fighter with no focus was always surpassed by weaker ones with more focus.

I agree 100%. A good post with evidence to back it up, opinions placed carefully, all in all a model post in my opinion. ((keep in mind it's just my opinion, don't hurt me))

[IceFlash78]

Thank you Jester, Masked Ninja, and Rhane. I appreciate the support. I just wanted some reconcilation... whenever two persons with strong opinions that are ont he opposite side of the spectrum, it tends to create a chasm that, while making the topic interesting to read, just alienates everybody else. I just wanted to bring everybody into this discussion.

I just kinda wish I knew what Ryona or Heretic thought of my post? I mean, it was partly written for them, so I'm curious to see how they felt when they read that.

[Anarky]

Hmm... interesting. I come back and Ryona's more pissed than ever. Hooray, good job, all of you (including Ryona). Anyways, considering your problems with contradicting canon, I'd say that it's probably been mentionned before: Canon changes. You might remember a character called Venus De Milo. She was canon for a while. Or Donatello as a cyborg, eve he was canon for a while. Canon changes, so all we can go with are the most recent news. And the most recent thing I can come up with is Laird's statement in Mirage vol. 4

Originally Posted by Ben

Just because he sold his rights to Laird doesn't mean he doesn't have a say in all of this.

But of course it means that he hasn't got anything to say in this.

[Duke]

Originally Posted by Anarky

But of course it means that he hasn't got anything to say in this.

I don't know about that. He has the right to an opinion just like everyone else in this thread. Plus I think his opinion really holds weight if he stated it like this "Up to the point when I sold my TMNT rights, I always pictured _______ as the best fighter."

[BlueSonnet]

Being that i'm still more or less trying to bring myself back up to speed on my fandom for TMNT, i'm a little rusty as a whole. I think the obvious thing to state is whilst its fine to say Michealango could be better if he wasn't so goofy (with lack of a better word) i'm sure you can provide similar arguements for the others if they overcome their weaknesses. As it stands at the moment i'd say Leo would stand as the best (when considering he's the "unofficial" leader aspect) even then with others having weaknesses who's to say that Leo doesn't have any? Sure looking at those recent stats in that pic i'd say the adaptable-looking Leo is your most reliable bet to victory, even he doesn't have perfect scores. I suppose as it stands its a fact only for future reference rather than a current one

But hey that's my say, and i should address after looking at this thread that i'm not looking for a fight about it either.

Originally Posted by Blondus

Hey, i feel were missing the most important part... The turtles works best together!

I suppose it'll explain why the series is called "Ninja turtles" rather than "The Ninja turtle and his lame brothers" =P

[NameGoesHere1066]

I voted for Raphael. I think he is the best potenticial fighter of the bunch. He may be the hot head but if he ever got over those issues and combined that with his lethal tendacies he could be a force. Plus I don't know why Leo has gotten so many votes. Yeah he's skilled and dedicated but he's has K.Oed Leo twise in the comics and won the dual they fought in the new movie.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

For some reason this thread reminded me of another thread, one in which they were talking about what other fighting styles could the turtles learn to use.

I think if Raphael trained himself (I don't know the reason, so I should reword it to 'if he was trained in') in something like Aikido. That would be nice and Raphael would definately be the best fighter of the group (I guess honestly you could say that for any of the turtles...but I do think this style fits Raphael to a T and it would be an explosive combination of power...with a little bit of fluidness that Raph needs to make him a little bit better)

And for those who don't know what Aikido is: Just picture these 2 sequences from a movie with Raphael in the place of the 'lead guy'. (They both even have Brooklyn accents lol )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMu2xNBpyQc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8ixgdDPufA

So I guess bottom line: A) Raph with Aikido would be awesome
B) Raph is the best fighter of the group...at least in my opinion

Again I think it'll all go down to whichever is your personal fave...cause you can always give a reason that they could reach a 'potential' they haven't gotten to yet.

[Spitfire]

Not even just because he's my favorite turtle but I'll go with Don. You can visually watch the turtles fight all the time, and in the show there's been quite a few times where Don was the last one standing, but in every game I've played he;s been the best fighter to use.

[Jelly Bean]

I voted for Mikey. He may be a scaredy cat sometimes but there is no question that he is pretty powerful, and if stoped actling like a one man comedy skit he would probably be something fearsome as well.

[Cure]

Wow. I have no idea who she is, but that Ryona chick seems rather loony for Leo.

[NameGoesHere1066]

yeah, I would say so too. And it seems she used to be a moderater too

I think Leo is great and all but he isn't a ninjitsu god like she was making him out to be. Besides I've yet to see Leo take out Raphael but Raphael has taken out Leo.

I think it's pretty hard to determine who is the best fighter because there has never been a situation where the turtles have had to fight each other seriously.