Scientists prove Noah's flood happened

*Raph's Girl* · 01-10-2006, 06:17 PM

http://suvalleynews.com/modules.php?...rticle&sid=248

Climate modelers at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) have succeeded in reproducing the climate changes caused by a massive freshwater pulse into the North Atlantic that occurred at the beginning of the current warm period 8,000 years ago. Their work is the first to consistently model the event and the first time that the model results have been validated by comparison to the record of climate proxies that scientists regularly use to study the Earth's past.

"We only have one example of how the climate reacts to changes, the past," said Gavin A. Schmidt, a GISS researcher and co-author on the study. "If we're going to accurately simulate the Earth's future, we need to be able to replicate past events. This was a real test of the model's skill."

The study was led by Allegra LeGrande, a graduate student in the department of earth and environmental sciences at Columbia University. The results appear in a paper being published in this week's edition of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS).

The group used an atmosphere-ocean coupled climate model known as GISS Model E-R to simulate the climate impact of a massive freshwater flood into the North Atlantic that happened about 8,200 years ago after the end of the last Ice Age. As retreating glaciers opened a route for two ancient meltwater lakes known as Agassiz and Ojibway to suddenly and catastrophically drain from the middle of the North American continent.

At approximately the same time, climate records show that the Earth experienced its last abrupt climate shift. Scientists believe that the massive freshwater pulse interfered with the ocean's overturning circulation, which distributes heat around the globe. According to the record of what are known as climate proxies, average air temperatures apparently dropped, fell as much as several degrees in some areas of the Northern Hemisphere.

Climate researchers use these proxies--chemical signals locked in minerals and ice bubbles as well as pollen and other biological indicators--as indirect measures of temperature and precipitation patterns in the distant past. Because GISS Model E-R incorporates the response of these proxies in its output, the authors of the PNAS study were able to compare their results directly to the historical record.

The researchers prodded their model with a freshwater pulse equal to between 25 and 50 times the flow of the Amazon River in 12 model runs that took more than a year to complete. Although the simulations largely agreed with proxy records from North Atlantic sediment cores and Greenland ice cores, the team's results showed that the flood had much milder effects around the globe than many people fear--including the dramatic shifts in climate depicted in the 2004 movie 'The Day After Tomorrow'.

According to the model, temperatures in the North Atlantic and Greenland showed the largest decrease, with slightly less cooling over parts of North America and Europe. The rest of the northern hemisphere, however, showed very little effect, and temperatures in the southern hemisphere remained largely unchanged. Moreover, ocean circulation, which initially dropped by half after simulated flood, appeared to rebound within 50 to 150 years.

"This was probably the closest thing to a 'Day After Tomorrow' scenario that we could model," said LeGrande. "The flood we looked at was even larger than anything that could happen today. Still, it's important for us to study because the real thing occurred during a period when conditions were not that much different from the present day."

The GISS climate model is also being used for the latest simulations by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to simulate the Earth's present and future climate. "Hopefully, successful simulations of the past such as this will increase confidence in the validity of model projections," said Schmidt.

The study was funded by NASA, National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate Fellowship, and the National Science Foundation.

Raph's Girl: Translation of the above: Lots of ice melted 8,000 years ago causing the oceans to rise alot and a temperature change...and um...yea...

Turtle Dove · 01-10-2006, 06:32 PM

You know if you read the Good Book,etc you know Noah's Ark was real and you know God really did the Great Flood. But if anyone is stupid enough to say "Oh it wa something else" then shame on you. I rather not question what God did before because I have faith it all really happened.

But I hope this thread DOESN"T turn into any religous fights nor anyone tossing in their 2 cents of insulting God.

I believe this stuff happened by HIM and no snotty scientist is gonna change my mind!

pwnage · 01-10-2006, 06:41 PM

This is not Noahs Flood. Noah's flood happened in Europe.

There was a King called Noah who sailed in a ship when the Tigris overflowed.

Because of this, large floods tend to be archtypal in European mythology, including the Bible.

Yes, the Bible is mythology. If you can prove that the scenarios in the bible actually occured, don't talk about "snotty scientists" who actually work instead of following an 1000-year book that claims the Earth is only a few thousand years old. That is, unless you actually do tangible research, or I'll take you down

*Anarky* · 01-10-2006, 07:28 PM

I never insult God, I just don't believe in him. And I do not like religious hardliners, no matter what religion. So, some flood happened, some guy wrote it down, it became the ultimate flood. And now scientists are wasting their time to see whether the events in the bible really occured or not. How pointless... I mean, those who believe in the bible and God and his actions, they will still have no doubt about the flood, for them it will have happened no matter what the outcome of this study will be. For others, like me, they just don't care.

pwnage · 01-10-2006, 07:36 PM

One guy didnt write It down. Many people did. It's not like a great flood is something exclusive to Christain mythology. It enrages me that many Christians I have met seem to think so. Nowhere in the article was the mention of "Noah", "Bible" or "God", either (Hell, not even "Proof"). A giant flood does not equate to Biblical proof and It kind of pisses me off that Raph's Girl assumed this study was an attempt to prove a wild Biblical scenario, especially considering the fact the flood occured in North America and not in Europe where Noah's Flood was speculated by Old World Christians to happen. Upsetting.

*Raph's Girl* · 01-10-2006, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnage

It kind of pisses me off that Raph's Girl assumed this study was an attempt to prove a wild Biblical scenario

Sorry... just that the website I got the article from said it was about Noah's Flood. *shrugs*

I know that there are other cultures that said a flood covered the world. The Eskimos of Alaska have their own flood story. Japan has a flood story and even their own version of Atlantis.

pwnage · 01-10-2006, 09:09 PM

It's cool, just blowing off steam, didn't mean to be so intense.

Anyway, you cant forget Utanapishtim, the Middle Eastern prophet who's god (Ea) told him to build a giant boat, put all the animals on it, and survived a great flood:

Quote:

“Enlil the god of rain, called an assembly. “People are noisy,” he said, “I want to destroy them.” Some of the gods agreed. But Ea did not want the humans destroyed, so he appeared to Utanapishtim in a dream. “Build an ark,” Ea said, “Bring your family, your relatives and the craft workers of your village.” Utanapishtim listened to Ea; it took him seven days to build the ark. When Adad the storm god came they closed the door. The gods watched the flood, it scared them; Nintu & Ishtar cried as they watched the humans turn to clay. The rain lasted seven days. At the end of the eighth day Shamash the sun god came out. The gods had destroyed the world but saved the ship. The ark floated for twelve days. Finally the ship lodged in Mt. Nisir. The ark stayed there for seven days. Then Utanapishtim released a dove, a swallow and a raven. The dove and swallow came back but the raven didn’t. When Enlil found out that some one survived the flood he was angry. Ea said that a dream had come to Utanapishtim. Enlil made Utanapishtim and his wife immortal because they were so smart.”

Like I said, great floods are extremley archtypal.

Fledermaus · 01-10-2006, 09:16 PM

And the chinese character for the number 8 is the shape of a boat -- remember the eight humans left on the boat after the flood: Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives.

Also, I believe this is entirely plausible. Just because it happened in the bible doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Science is always changing, so... just keep an open mind and respect one another's beliefs. Sheesh.

Anyways, I saw this program on NOVA that proved how sometimes geological change can happen incredibly rapidly--as in a matter of hours. During the ice age, there were entire walls of water held back by frail dams of ice. When these dams eventually melted and gave way -- BILLIONS and BILLIONS of gallons of water went through slicing up a valley. Scientists used to think it took millions of years for the particular valley to form, when if fact, it could have well taken only a few hours. Very often humans underestimate the power of nature. Spontaneous change does occur every now and then, we just haven't got all the clues at our disposal to see the whole picture.

Neat find.

pwnage · 01-10-2006, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fledermaus

Also, I believe this is entirely plausible. Just because it happened in the bible doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Not the point I was trying to make. Just because it was in the Bible dosen't mean squat. I don't doubt a giant European flood (but not extremley cataclysmic), but its hard to justify it was the intention of God when plenty of other cultures older or just as old claim is it was the intention of their God. But I don't think it is either, all are simply mythology, a story written in exagerated form to convery a point, lesson or tradition and not to base it upon fact.

~~SurfGuru133~~ · 01-10-2006, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle Dove

You know if you read the Good Book,etc you know Noah's Ark was real and you know God really did the Great Flood. But if anyone is stupid enough to say "Oh it wa something else" then shame on you. I rather not question what God did before because I have faith it all really happened.

But I hope this thread DOESN"T turn into any religous fights nor anyone tossing in their 2 cents of insulting God.

I believe this stuff happened by HIM and no snotty scientist is gonna change my mind!

hey look I believe in all that but u cant say "shame on u" if they dont believe in that wtf is wrong with u man its not a religion that makes a man but the deeds he does

Fledermaus · 01-10-2006, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnage

Not the point I was trying to make. Just because it was in the Bible dosen't mean squat. I don't doubt a giant European flood (but not extremley cataclysmic), but its hard to justify it was the intention of God when plenty of other cultures older or just as old claim is it was the intention of their God. But I don't think it is either, all are simply mythology, a story written in exagerated form to convery a point, lesson or tradition and not to base it upon fact.

Entirely a matter of what you believe. Some people would see such similarities as indication that all people are in fact descended from the same three sons of Noah. Over generations, stories got passed down, languages developed...

Anyways, I vote we try to keep this thread more science-based, as in we talk about how cool this is. I don't think this was meant to be religious debate, so maybe we can drop the subject. This is just an interesting find.

I think it's just neat that much as we try to uncover, we could be missing whole chunks of history, simply because circumstances weren't right to preserve any evidence. Then there's all that stuff about time being different at the moment of the "big bang" -- most of the universe was created in a tiny 10^-9 second or something like that.

I'm having major impulses to partake in Nova/National Geographic episodes right about now. Weird.

EDIT: and SHADDAP on the religion!!!

~~SurfGuru133~~ · 01-10-2006, 09:38 PM

o plus I hate it when christians think they kno everything and that everyone else is wrong even tho I skate for jesus (hahahah thats my skate team's name) It dusnt mean ppl can think their religion is the end

pwnage · 01-10-2006, 09:40 PM

Whatever you say, man.

~~SurfGuru133~~ · 01-10-2006, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnage

Whatever you say, man.

ur mom told me that to but that was because she was giving me full access to her body

*The Stryker* · 01-10-2006, 09:51 PM

Wow...Mature.

and thats coming from me, Anyway this is indeed a neat find.

**Jester** · 01-10-2006, 09:59 PM

As a Christian I have to say this is a preety sweet find. And you'd be suprised what science and archology has found out about the Bible, it's claims, and how much is fact.

愛 · 01-10-2006, 10:08 PM

One more flame post and this thread is gone.

You have been warned.

Peanut · 01-10-2006, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ai Takahashi

One more flame post and this thread is gone.

You have been warned.

Who the hell are you?

pwnage · 01-10-2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurfGuru133

ur mom told me that to but that was because she was giving me full access to her body

Alright man.

Fledermaus · 01-10-2006, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peanut

Who the hell are you?

uhh.... a mod. Like you.

Or just some random poster who likes to talk big and coincidentally has a bold-face name.

01-10-2006, 06:17 PM	#1
Raph's Girl Dierna Soul, Reporter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jakku Posts: 10,831	Scientists prove Noah's flood happened http://suvalleynews.com/modules.php?...rticle&sid=248 Climate modelers at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) have succeeded in reproducing the climate changes caused by a massive freshwater pulse into the North Atlantic that occurred at the beginning of the current warm period 8,000 years ago. Their work is the first to consistently model the event and the first time that the model results have been validated by comparison to the record of climate proxies that scientists regularly use to study the Earth's past. "We only have one example of how the climate reacts to changes, the past," said Gavin A. Schmidt, a GISS researcher and co-author on the study. "If we're going to accurately simulate the Earth's future, we need to be able to replicate past events. This was a real test of the model's skill." The study was led by Allegra LeGrande, a graduate student in the department of earth and environmental sciences at Columbia University. The results appear in a paper being published in this week's edition of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS). The group used an atmosphere-ocean coupled climate model known as GISS Model E-R to simulate the climate impact of a massive freshwater flood into the North Atlantic that happened about 8,200 years ago after the end of the last Ice Age. As retreating glaciers opened a route for two ancient meltwater lakes known as Agassiz and Ojibway to suddenly and catastrophically drain from the middle of the North American continent. At approximately the same time, climate records show that the Earth experienced its last abrupt climate shift. Scientists believe that the massive freshwater pulse interfered with the ocean's overturning circulation, which distributes heat around the globe. According to the record of what are known as climate proxies, average air temperatures apparently dropped, fell as much as several degrees in some areas of the Northern Hemisphere. Climate researchers use these proxies--chemical signals locked in minerals and ice bubbles as well as pollen and other biological indicators--as indirect measures of temperature and precipitation patterns in the distant past. Because GISS Model E-R incorporates the response of these proxies in its output, the authors of the PNAS study were able to compare their results directly to the historical record. The researchers prodded their model with a freshwater pulse equal to between 25 and 50 times the flow of the Amazon River in 12 model runs that took more than a year to complete. Although the simulations largely agreed with proxy records from North Atlantic sediment cores and Greenland ice cores, the team's results showed that the flood had much milder effects around the globe than many people fear--including the dramatic shifts in climate depicted in the 2004 movie 'The Day After Tomorrow'. According to the model, temperatures in the North Atlantic and Greenland showed the largest decrease, with slightly less cooling over parts of North America and Europe. The rest of the northern hemisphere, however, showed very little effect, and temperatures in the southern hemisphere remained largely unchanged. Moreover, ocean circulation, which initially dropped by half after simulated flood, appeared to rebound within 50 to 150 years. "This was probably the closest thing to a 'Day After Tomorrow' scenario that we could model," said LeGrande. "The flood we looked at was even larger than anything that could happen today. Still, it's important for us to study because the real thing occurred during a period when conditions were not that much different from the present day." The GISS climate model is also being used for the latest simulations by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to simulate the Earth's present and future climate. "Hopefully, successful simulations of the past such as this will increase confidence in the validity of model projections," said Schmidt. The study was funded by NASA, National Defense Science and Engineering Graduate Fellowship, and the National Science Foundation. Raph's Girl: Translation of the above: Lots of ice melted 8,000 years ago causing the oceans to rise alot and a temperature change...and um...yea... __________________

01-10-2006, 06:32 PM	#2
Turtle Dove Stone Warrior Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: In Don's workshop Posts: 854	You know if you read the Good Book,etc you know Noah's Ark was real and you know God really did the Great Flood. But if anyone is stupid enough to say "Oh it wa something else" then shame on you. I rather not question what God did before because I have faith it all really happened. But I hope this thread DOESN"T turn into any religous fights nor anyone tossing in their 2 cents of insulting God. I believe this stuff happened by HIM and no snotty scientist is gonna change my mind! __________________ ]~You'll always be #1 in my heart~ 1..2...3...4..Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.....

01-10-2006, 06:41 PM	#3
pwnage Foot Soldier Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 119	This is not Noahs Flood. Noah's flood happened in Europe. There was a King called Noah who sailed in a ship when the Tigris overflowed. Because of this, large floods tend to be archtypal in European mythology, including the Bible. Yes, the Bible is mythology. If you can prove that the scenarios in the bible actually occured, don't talk about "snotty scientists" who actually work instead of following an 1000-year book that claims the Earth is only a few thousand years old. That is, unless you actually do tangible research, or I'll take you down __________________

01-10-2006, 07:28 PM	#4
Anarky Outlaw Hero Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tannhauser Gate Posts: 4,867	I never insult God, I just don't believe in him. And I do not like religious hardliners, no matter what religion. So, some flood happened, some guy wrote it down, it became the ultimate flood. And now scientists are wasting their time to see whether the events in the bible really occured or not. How pointless... I mean, those who believe in the bible and God and his actions, they will still have no doubt about the flood, for them it will have happened no matter what the outcome of this study will be. For others, like me, they just don't care. __________________ Because it's... I dunno... brutal.

01-10-2006, 07:36 PM	#5
pwnage Foot Soldier Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 119	One guy didnt write It down. Many people did. It's not like a great flood is something exclusive to Christain mythology. It enrages me that many Christians I have met seem to think so. Nowhere in the article was the mention of "Noah", "Bible" or "God", either (Hell, not even "Proof"). A giant flood does not equate to Biblical proof and It kind of pisses me off that Raph's Girl assumed this study was an attempt to prove a wild Biblical scenario, especially considering the fact the flood occured in North America and not in Europe where Noah's Flood was speculated by Old World Christians to happen. Upsetting. __________________ Last edited by pwnage; 01-10-2006 at 07:43 PM.

01-10-2006, 09:16 PM	#8
Fledermaus Mad Scientist Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,115	And the chinese character for the number 8 is the shape of a boat -- remember the eight humans left on the boat after the flood: Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives. Also, I believe this is entirely plausible. Just because it happened in the bible doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Science is always changing, so... just keep an open mind and respect one another's beliefs. Sheesh. Anyways, I saw this program on NOVA that proved how sometimes geological change can happen incredibly rapidly--as in a matter of hours. During the ice age, there were entire walls of water held back by frail dams of ice. When these dams eventually melted and gave way -- BILLIONS and BILLIONS of gallons of water went through slicing up a valley. Scientists used to think it took millions of years for the particular valley to form, when if fact, it could have well taken only a few hours. Very often humans underestimate the power of nature. Spontaneous change does occur every now and then, we just haven't got all the clues at our disposal to see the whole picture. Neat find. __________________ We're calling it a freeway. Eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth, safe, fast. Traffic jams will be a thing of the past. I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night! Soon there will be a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food! Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see! My God... It'll be beautiful.

01-10-2006, 09:38 PM	#12
~~SurfGuru133~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: riding a wave or skating somewhere in OC Posts: 53	o plus I hate it when christians think they kno everything and that everyone else is wrong even tho I skate for jesus (hahahah thats my skate team's name) It dusnt mean ppl can think their religion is the end

01-10-2006, 09:40 PM	#13
pwnage Foot Soldier Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 119	Whatever you say, man. __________________

01-10-2006, 09:51 PM	#15
The Stryker Stupid Rich Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Room 237 Posts: 11,152	Wow...Mature. and thats coming from me, Anyway this is indeed a neat find. __________________ @~<3 Mom~@

01-10-2006, 09:59 PM	#16
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,301	As a Christian I have to say this is a preety sweet find. And you'd be suprised what science and archology has found out about the Bible, it's claims, and how much is fact. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

01-10-2006, 10:08 PM	#17
愛 Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,449	One more flame post and this thread is gone. You have been warned.