The "Random" era of Mirage Vol.1...thoughts?

*DrSpengler* · 07-29-2006, 05:07 PM

So my local comic shop has been willing to track down copies of old TMNT comics for me (so long as I buy them) and I've been getting quite a bit of Mirage Vol. 1 issues. A real treat, as I've never read them until now.

However, much to my surprise, the vast majority of issues between #21 and #42 are just...random, alternate tellings of the TMNT by guest artists and writers. I mean, they had done some of those prior to "Return to New York", but by now the TMNT comic seemed to have become a title exclusively for the purpose of showcasing new talent in stories with no bearing on continuity.

It was refreshing at first, but it started to get pretty old and by the time I reached #42 I was extremely thankful when I read in the introduction that they intended to return to an actual continuity.

I mean, several of the alternate stories were very good (Michael Zulli's 3-parter is #31, #35 and #36 was incredible) and some of them were really funny in their weirdness (the "Spaced Out" arc in #38-40 was hysterical).

However, most of them were just random one-shot stories with no bearing on continuity and quite a bit of ugly artwork with some, well, stupid stories.

I think they really should've kept the "Guest Artists and Writers on Alternate Tellings"-thing to Turtle Soup. Some of the stories were quite good, but it went on for way too long to the point of suspecting laziness on Eastman and Laird's part.

Anyway, how did YOU feel about the "random" era of Vol. 1?

Sanjuro · 07-29-2006, 05:31 PM

I like the Vol. 4 era more overall than Vol. 1. But the City of War story arc and the early issues done in house are orgasmic.

xZAOx · 07-29-2006, 05:40 PM

The only out-of-continuity stories I liked was Zulli's 3 parter, that is some of my favorite comics period now.

The comedy ones I didn't care for, and one or two in there had horrible art and a story that got tons of facts wrong. Some of the guest artists made stories that fit (like The River), and some had great art too (Like M.C. Farley's issues), so those were good with me. But the one, can't remember, where on the cover it has one of the turtles day-dreaming I think? That just flat out had bad art and facts wrong. Those annoyed me.

I'm fine with guest artists and them telling their own stories, as long as Peter & Co. make sure to approve the story so that it fits.

*DrSpengler* · 07-29-2006, 05:43 PM

Yeah, that would be #41, which I just read this afternoon.

It had a few "fun" ideas, but overall it was prettyboring and, yeah, totally factually inaccurate.

Not a great moment.

*CyberCubed* · 08-02-2006, 05:42 PM

The "filler" in Volume 1 sucked, and it sucked bad. There were only about 3-4 issues in that era that I'd consider keepers, the rest were awful. Nearly killed Volume 1 before Mirage brought the book back under control from those awful guest writers.

Easily the worst batch of comics from any of the series, and yes that's including Archie/Image, etc.

Thank goodness Laird is only collecting the Volume 1 comics that matter, and the rest is being discarded.

xZAOx · 08-02-2006, 06:45 PM

Most people hold the Archie in good regards (me included). It started off as cartoon adaptations (bad), then fairly wacky-zany type stories (ok), then got really good.

And I'm one of the few that enjoyed Image too. It was different, but I thought it stayed true to the characters, and presented them with new challenges and good surprises (mutilation aside). I really wish they could've gotten a few more issues under their belt to finish out the current story arc.

Damien Kash · 08-03-2006, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xZAOx

Most people hold the Archie in good regards (me included). It started off as cartoon adaptations (bad), then fairly wacky-zany type stories (ok), then got really good.

And I'm one of the few that enjoyed Image too. It was different, but I thought it stayed true to the characters, and presented them with new challenges and good surprises (mutilation aside). I really wish they could've gotten a few more issues under their belt to finish out the current story arc.

I enjoyed the Image-series too
Didn't like Leo losing an arm,or robo-don

But I couldn't stop reading either

*VaughnMichael* · 08-03-2006, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien Kash

I enjoyed the Image-series too
Didn't like Leo losing an arm,or robo-don

But I couldn't stop reading either

me also I also enjoyed the wacky things that happend even if it's not cannon.
I also really enjoyed some of those issues from mirage.
But Archie is by far my favorite version of any tmnt comics.

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 08-03-2006, 10:32 PM

There are alot of good issues in the filler arc. The River, Shades of Grey, Masks, Juliets Revenge, Dreams of Stone. I really hope theyre gonna be collected.

*DrSpengler* · 08-03-2006, 10:56 PM

Well, stuff like "The River" and "Juliet's Revenge" are canon in the Mirage TMNT continuity. And, surprise, those are the best stories of the period.

I'm glad Laird intends to skip the non-continuity issues, as they're mostly pointless filler that would only serve to confuse readers if they were collected as-is in a trade paperback.

The only alternate-telling I'd like to see collected is the 3-part Michael Zulli arc. Great stuff, there. The rest I can do without.

*R-iZZy* · 08-04-2006, 12:29 AM

So which issues were considered non-cannon? Because Zulli's interpretation of the Turtles was an instant classic! "The River" was great and so was "Juliet's Revenge". I'm hoping the "Halls of Lost Legends" one is considered canon, because that was possibly my favorite issue of the series.

*DrSpengler* · 08-04-2006, 12:42 AM

I honestly don't know if there was ever a definative ruling on exactly which were canon and which weren't. I think it's just a matter of "common sense", like you KNOW Zulli's arc and Spaced Out etc couldn't possibly be canon. But then there are stupid and silly issues, like "Egyptian Adventure" (#32) which don't really jibe with continuity but are just really...dumb, and don't effect any storylines, either.

Maybe I should write Laird about it or something? Eh, couldn't hurt.

TheShowstoppa · 08-04-2006, 02:35 AM

Actually, there is a list somewhere in this forum about which ones are continuity and which ones aren't. Obviously 1 - 15. All the one shots - Including fugitoid. 19 - 21; 27 - 29 (and I believe 30 as well); 45, 48 - 62. That's about the most complete that I can think of. If it needs correcting, let me know, but I think I hit the nail in the coffin.

~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ · 08-04-2006, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShowstoppa

Actually, there is a list somewhere in this forum about which ones are continuity and which ones aren't. Obviously 1 - 15. All the one shots - Including fugitoid. 19 - 21; 27 - 29 (and I believe 30 as well); 45, 48 - 62. That's about the most complete that I can think of. If it needs correcting, let me know, but I think I hit the nail in the coffin.

I always figured Masks 1 and 2 were in continuity

*DrSpengler* · 08-04-2006, 12:13 PM

Got a response back from Dan Berger in less than a day (that guy's good).

Quote:

Howdy Mark,

Unfortunately Peter Laird hasn't given me his final list of issues
that he considers part of the official story line, but here is a
tentative list:

TMNT volume one #1-15, 17, 19-21, 27, 28, 45-62

The four micro-series: Raphael #1, Michaelangelo #1, Donatello #1 and
Leonardo #1

Fugitoid #1

Tales of the TMNT volume one #1-7

TMNT volume two #1-13

TMNT volume four #1-28

Tales of the TMNT volume two #1-25

He didn't include stuff like "the River" and "Juliet's Revenge", though it's possible he just forgot about them (this is a "tentative list" after all).

*MrPliggins* · 08-05-2006, 08:15 AM

I don't really think this was laziness on Eastman and Laird's part. The Tmnt's were so hugely successful at this time that they were busy with marketing, movies, and everything else. They didn't have the time to create the comic any more.
This all had to happen, though, because without that huge popularity in the 80s and 90s, the Tmnt would probably be nowhere today.
I wonder if the Tmnt hadn't been licensed to Surge, would Eastman and Laird have kept doing the comic, sort of underground, till this day...kind of like Cerebus? Who knows.
Even not being in continuity, I loved issue 16. It was the first mirage issue I ever read.

08-04-2006, 12:29 AM	#11
R-iZZy The Long Con Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: G'ville, FL (Gator Country), USA Posts: 3,007	So which issues were considered non-cannon? Because Zulli's interpretation of the Turtles was an instant classic! "The River" was great and so was "Juliet's Revenge". I'm hoping the "Halls of Lost Legends" one is considered canon, because that was possibly my favorite issue of the series. __________________

08-04-2006, 02:35 AM	#13
TheShowstoppa Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 629	Actually, there is a list somewhere in this forum about which ones are continuity and which ones aren't. Obviously 1 - 15. All the one shots - Including fugitoid. 19 - 21; 27 - 29 (and I believe 30 as well); 45, 48 - 62. That's about the most complete that I can think of. If it needs correcting, let me know, but I think I hit the nail in the coffin. __________________ Courtesy of LUCKFF "I don't know what bothers me more; That this actually worked, or that Don carries around a pigeon puppet." - Mikey: Search for Splinter Pt. 1

07-29-2006, 05:07 PM	#1
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	The "Random" era of Mirage Vol.1...thoughts? So my local comic shop has been willing to track down copies of old TMNT comics for me (so long as I buy them) and I've been getting quite a bit of Mirage Vol. 1 issues. A real treat, as I've never read them until now. However, much to my surprise, the vast majority of issues between #21 and #42 are just...random, alternate tellings of the TMNT by guest artists and writers. I mean, they had done some of those prior to "Return to New York", but by now the TMNT comic seemed to have become a title exclusively for the purpose of showcasing new talent in stories with no bearing on continuity. It was refreshing at first, but it started to get pretty old and by the time I reached #42 I was extremely thankful when I read in the introduction that they intended to return to an actual continuity. I mean, several of the alternate stories were very good (Michael Zulli's 3-parter is #31, #35 and #36 was incredible) and some of them were really funny in their weirdness (the "Spaced Out" arc in #38-40 was hysterical). However, most of them were just random one-shot stories with no bearing on continuity and quite a bit of ugly artwork with some, well, stupid stories. I think they really should've kept the "Guest Artists and Writers on Alternate Tellings"-thing to Turtle Soup. Some of the stories were quite good, but it went on for way too long to the point of suspecting laziness on Eastman and Laird's part. Anyway, how did YOU feel about the "random" era of Vol. 1?

07-29-2006, 05:31 PM	#2
Sanjuro Stone Warrior Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 598	I like the Vol. 4 era more overall than Vol. 1. But the City of War story arc and the early issues done in house are orgasmic.

07-29-2006, 05:40 PM	#3
xZAOx Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: TN Posts: 842	The only out-of-continuity stories I liked was Zulli's 3 parter, that is some of my favorite comics period now. The comedy ones I didn't care for, and one or two in there had horrible art and a story that got tons of facts wrong. Some of the guest artists made stories that fit (like The River), and some had great art too (Like M.C. Farley's issues), so those were good with me. But the one, can't remember, where on the cover it has one of the turtles day-dreaming I think? That just flat out had bad art and facts wrong. Those annoyed me. I'm fine with guest artists and them telling their own stories, as long as Peter & Co. make sure to approve the story so that it fits.

07-29-2006, 05:43 PM	#4
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Yeah, that would be #41, which I just read this afternoon. It had a few "fun" ideas, but overall it was prettyboring and, yeah, totally factually inaccurate. Not a great moment.

08-02-2006, 05:42 PM	#5
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,869	The "filler" in Volume 1 sucked, and it sucked bad. There were only about 3-4 issues in that era that I'd consider keepers, the rest were awful. Nearly killed Volume 1 before Mirage brought the book back under control from those awful guest writers. Easily the worst batch of comics from any of the series, and yes that's including Archie/Image, etc. Thank goodness Laird is only collecting the Volume 1 comics that matter, and the rest is being discarded.

08-02-2006, 06:45 PM	#6
xZAOx Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: TN Posts: 842	Most people hold the Archie in good regards (me included). It started off as cartoon adaptations (bad), then fairly wacky-zany type stories (ok), then got really good. And I'm one of the few that enjoyed Image too. It was different, but I thought it stayed true to the characters, and presented them with new challenges and good surprises (mutilation aside). I really wish they could've gotten a few more issues under their belt to finish out the current story arc.

08-03-2006, 10:32 PM	#9
~~ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Seventh Layer of Hell Posts: 1,929	There are alot of good issues in the filler arc. The River, Shades of Grey, Masks, Juliets Revenge, Dreams of Stone. I really hope theyre gonna be collected.

08-03-2006, 10:56 PM	#10
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Well, stuff like "The River" and "Juliet's Revenge" are canon in the Mirage TMNT continuity. And, surprise, those are the best stories of the period. I'm glad Laird intends to skip the non-continuity issues, as they're mostly pointless filler that would only serve to confuse readers if they were collected as-is in a trade paperback. The only alternate-telling I'd like to see collected is the 3-part Michael Zulli arc. Great stuff, there. The rest I can do without.

08-04-2006, 12:42 AM	#12
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	I honestly don't know if there was ever a definative ruling on exactly which were canon and which weren't. I think it's just a matter of "common sense", like you KNOW Zulli's arc and Spaced Out etc couldn't possibly be canon. But then there are stupid and silly issues, like "Egyptian Adventure" (#32) which don't really jibe with continuity but are just really...dumb, and don't effect any storylines, either. Maybe I should write Laird about it or something? Eh, couldn't hurt.

08-05-2006, 08:15 AM	#16
MrPliggins Foot Elite Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 3,051	I don't really think this was laziness on Eastman and Laird's part. The Tmnt's were so hugely successful at this time that they were busy with marketing, movies, and everything else. They didn't have the time to create the comic any more. This all had to happen, though, because without that huge popularity in the 80s and 90s, the Tmnt would probably be nowhere today. I wonder if the Tmnt hadn't been licensed to Surge, would Eastman and Laird have kept doing the comic, sort of underground, till this day...kind of like Cerebus? Who knows. Even not being in continuity, I loved issue 16. It was the first mirage issue I ever read.