LoZ: Twilight Princess *Spoilers* - Page 7

愛 · 12-25-2006, 03:08 PM

How can you suck at Zelda? The games are so easy. Some puzzles can kill you, but overall the games aren't meant to be difficult. I just think you deviate your attention too much to other games. Bad games, too.

**Barkworm** · 12-26-2006, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecha Cow

70 hours?! How much are you on now? I'm going really slow as well, but I just finished the 6th dungeon at 30 or so hours.

Just passed the fourth dungeon (which had another copletely amazing boss) at 40 hours. I have this habit that when I get a new item I run around the world map for HOURS, just to look what I could do with it.
Oh, and I'm totally in love with this game. There are a lot of flaws obviously but I don't even care. I never really expected this to be the best Zelda ever so maybe that helps. It's an awesome game for what it is.

*Mecha Cow* · 12-26-2006, 09:53 AM

Yeah, I'm starting to warm up to it a bit more myself, now that I've come to terms with everything the game isn't. It's definitely the weakest of the four 3D Zeldas (IMO), but still a great game. Really has its ups and downs though.

36 hours and heading for dungeon 7.

Demented Utrom · 12-27-2006, 07:48 PM

I finished the game, twice already Once on Wii.Second time on the Gamecube.I'm on my third play through already.The First time, took me 2 weeks.The second time only a week. IMO.I found the game too short.

~~LogicDonny~~ · 12-28-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demented Utrom

I finished the game, twice already Once on Wii.Second time on the Gamecube.I'm on my third play through already.The First time, took me 2 weeks.The second time only a week. IMO.I found the game too short.

So now that you have beaten the game on both platforms which version did you find better? The cube or the wii? Did you feel weird when you play 2 different views of zelda.. They look the same but are mirroed on the wii.

**ThirdMarioBro** · 12-29-2006, 02:49 PM

Okay, at 18 or so hours I've fully decided this is my personal favorite Zelda. Are there flaws? Yeah, but I really don't care that much. There were flaws in Ocarina as well, but nobody wants to pay attention to them because they put the game on such an unreachable platform (myself included). I've decided I actually enjoy the wolf sections. They are slow in nature, but I enjoy the ambient moody atmosphere of the Twilight Realm. It shares it's style in many ways with Metroid Prime 2, but in a Zelda sense. I've also decided that Madina is my favorite sidekick in just about any game period. She's such a little b*tch.

Musically, people need to drop it. Yes, the soundtrack isn't fully orchestrated, and quite frankly, I'm glad. There are many elements in the game that, were they orchestrated, would suck. First of all, Hyrule Field. Ever since Ocarina, the music has changed on the fly while you explorer the Overworld. Not only does this give you an extra second to wonder which direction the enemy is coming from, but it's also just musically interesting. How about when the music would become softer and more elegant as you approached Lake Hilya, or more melancholy when you came near Death Mountain? With a live orchestrated track streaming, you don't get that kind of versatility. Its prerecorded, and static in nature. Think of Oblivion. The same four or five tracks just play successively, no matter where you are, then when an enemy approaches, the music abruptly switches to something more sinister, then you kill the enemy, and it restarts another random track. That's not how Zelda works. There are a few Orchestrated tracks here and there where they can be appreciated, but for in-game scenarios that needed "interactive" music, there are none, and quite frankly, I hope they don't force it in the future, because Zelda's style has become more attached to interactive sound than most realize. To loose that would yank something unique from the game. I don't want that. And why are people so radically against sampled music? With an orchestra, you have a set amount of sounds that can be used for any given situation. With samples, you can have any sound in the world, or otherwise.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm a huge fan of orchestrated and classical music in nature. Hell, I study it. Still, some things just don't need it, and I feel Zelda qualifies as not.

Wind Waker had something no other Zelda (or game) has. It was the most impressionistic game I have ever seen. You literally saw the world through the eyes of a child who became an adult. Nothing has done that as well, and the game should be heralded for it's artistic vision, but I still love Twilight's more. I love the interaction between the characters, and how they've worked harder to add a more cinematic feel to the cinemas. Like the sequence where Zelda surrenders in the Castle flashback. That leads to the voice acting. I don't want any. They were going to add acting into this one, but they yanked it out. Zelda games have since Ocarina relied on pantomime to express character emotion, and relied on written narrative to express story. That has always given the series the feel of a living book in motion. Games use voice acting as a crutch to express the emotion, while leaving other minute details unattended. I love the feel of reading the text, the looking at the character's expression to see how they feel. All the elements have to be in place for it to work, but when it does, it's a beautiful thing. Voice acting would take that away.

Case and point, I have decided this is my favorite Zelda. I'll probably take some flack for it, but the opinion stands. The things that bug a lot of people about the game aren't issues for me, and all the things that I care about are in full swing. It's like Twilight Princess and Gears of War. I get something different from each game that I love differently. I don't necessarily think that the two should borrow elements from each other to be better. That's my opinion.

愛 · 12-29-2006, 04:35 PM

Yeah, you're dumb. No, no real explanation why. But I did get to the second dungeon in 4 hours, while you're sitting on almost 5 times that on what, the third dungeon? Start playing!

Peanut · 12-29-2006, 07:19 PM

And I'll say I disagree with almost every point you made.

The music through out TP is generally bad. And really, you listen to all that terrible 80's synth pop, so you looooove that archaic sh*t. Orchestrated music can work in exactly the same way as sampled can. And where is all this dynamic stuff you're talking about? Last time I played any Zelda, the music would cut in and out between enemy encounters and regular dungeon exploration, just like in Oblivion.

This game feels old. Yeah, it gets away with having a decent art style and some good expression work, especially on Midna's character model, but that doesn't stop it from feeling like a game made in 1999.

The. Wolf. Is. Terrible. Hands down. It feels like the worst kind of filler bullsh*t when you play as the wolf. Are you telling me you had fun collecting those f*cking Tears of Light three times in a row? That's a joke. You want to see how the lame wolf aspects should have worked in this game? Go play Okami.

Honestly, I'm completely over TP. Every other Zelda game I played made me hop right back into a new game straight after I beat it the first time. I haven't touched TP since the day I beat it weeks ago.

*Dr. Doom* · 12-29-2006, 07:37 PM

And here I am clocking in with a final time of 50:10. If you wanna ask me why I took as long as I did (this is about the same amount of time I'd spend on an RPG), I really coudln't tell you. I must have just either done far more exploring than I remembered or the dungeons without a strategy guide took me longer than it would for folks who are used to that kinda thing. Anyways, I've stated before that several points I've had to actually consider if this would replace OoT as not only my favorite Zelda game but as the #1 game on my list. I haven't quite decided yet, but the fact alone that I had to consider it I think is pretty huge. Needless to say I was incredibly happy with the game, I can't really think of any major complaints. They created a world once again that you could get lost in (in the good way) along with a top-notch soundtrack, regardless of the medium in which it was recorded. Every last boss fight and even the mini boss fights were all unique and innovative, all the way down to the last few. You never really knew what to expect. It's defiantely going to end up at a very high spot on my list, I can guarantee that. As for whether or not it will take the top spot, I'll have to think on that more a bit more. Anyways, cheers to Twilight Princess.

**ThirdMarioBro** · 12-29-2006, 07:38 PM

Well, yeah. I figured I would be considered dumb for that opinion, and so be it.

PanMan · 12-29-2006, 09:02 PM

I agree about the text as opposed to voice acting. Text is better.

*Dr. Doom* · 12-29-2006, 09:31 PM

End of Game spoiler

Spoiler:

**Barkworm** · 12-30-2006, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peanut

Orchestrated music can work in exactly the same way as sampled can.

A prime example for this is Sony's "Shadow of the Colossus". Go, play this game and tell me that sampled music has ANY advantage in comparison to orchestrated music. Seriously, orchestrated music is always, ALWAYS better than midi.

**ThirdMarioBro** · 12-30-2006, 04:35 AM

Well, we'll all never agree on that point, but you at least cannot deny the strength of the actual compositions themselves. Anyone?

**Barkworm** · 12-30-2006, 06:21 AM

Eeeh... I don't know. Most of the time the music in TP is just... there. Nothing really awe-inspiring. I like the new world map theme a lot but apart from that there weren't many tunes that really got stuck in my head. Not on the level of LttP.

*Mecha Cow* · 12-30-2006, 10:12 AM

Actually, I don't have any problems with the fact that it's MIDI, I just think the compositions are really weak. It's just background music. Sorry, bud.

I'm on my way to the last dungeon (Three dungeons in a row? What the hell, Nintendo?), so I'm a few hours away from finishing the game. I'll try to get a review up in a couple of days.

Peanut · 12-30-2006, 11:16 AM

I'm looking forward to it, Mecha. I hope I'm not the only one who can see through all the bullsh*t Nintendo spouted about this "instant classic".

**Barkworm** · 12-30-2006, 11:20 AM

I'm in the last dungeon right now and this thing is AWFUL. Seriously horrible. I hope the final boss fight will make up for this embodiment of boredom.

EDIT: Yep, it did.

*Mecha Cow* · 12-30-2006, 01:21 PM

What?! What happened to 70 hours? You can't finish the game before me, cheater!

And don't worry Peanut, going by your impressions and review we seem to have pretty much the same opinion about the game.

~~LogicDonny~~ · 12-30-2006, 01:43 PM

Nintendo has shot themselves in the foot because they overhyped it for saying that this will eb the best and looks like u all don't think so. i will put my agreement on this.. When I played oot and wind waker I played right to the end but when I play this game, I haven'ttouched the game for a week since I beaten the 6th dugeon. I don't even feel like playing it. it feels so-so. It was exciting at first but got boring..

12-26-2006, 09:53 AM	#123
Mecha Cow Gorgeous and modest too Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,699	Yeah, I'm starting to warm up to it a bit more myself, now that I've come to terms with everything the game isn't. It's definitely the weakest of the four 3D Zeldas (IMO), but still a great game. Really has its ups and downs though. 36 hours and heading for dungeon 7. __________________

12-29-2006, 02:49 PM	#126
ThirdMarioBro Tea Time! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,905	Okay, at 18 or so hours I've fully decided this is my personal favorite Zelda. Are there flaws? Yeah, but I really don't care that much. There were flaws in Ocarina as well, but nobody wants to pay attention to them because they put the game on such an unreachable platform (myself included). I've decided I actually enjoy the wolf sections. They are slow in nature, but I enjoy the ambient moody atmosphere of the Twilight Realm. It shares it's style in many ways with Metroid Prime 2, but in a Zelda sense. I've also decided that Madina is my favorite sidekick in just about any game period. She's such a little btch. Musically, people need to drop it. Yes, the soundtrack isn't fully orchestrated, and quite frankly, I'm glad. There are many elements in the game that, were they orchestrated, would suck. First of all, Hyrule Field. Ever since Ocarina, the music has changed on the fly while you explorer the Overworld. Not only does this give you an extra second to wonder which direction the enemy is coming from, but it's also just musically interesting. How about when the music would become softer and more elegant as you approached Lake Hilya, or more melancholy when you came near Death Mountain? With a live orchestrated track streaming, you don't get that kind of versatility. Its prerecorded, and static in nature. Think of Oblivion. The same four or five tracks just play successively, no matter where you are, then when an enemy approaches, the music abruptly switches to something more sinister, then you kill the enemy, and it restarts another random track. That's not how Zelda works. There are a few Orchestrated tracks here and there where they can be appreciated, but for in-game scenarios that needed "interactive" music, there are none, and quite frankly, I hope they don't force it in the future, because Zelda's style has become more attached to interactive sound than most realize. To loose that would yank something unique from the game. I don't want that. And why are people so radically against sampled music? With an orchestra, you have a set amount of sounds that can be used for any given situation. With samples, you can have any sound in the world, or otherwise. Now don't get me wrong. I'm a huge fan of orchestrated and classical music in nature. Hell, I study it. Still, some things just don't need it, and I feel Zelda qualifies as not. Wind Waker had something no other Zelda (or game) has. It was the most impressionistic game I have ever seen. You literally saw the world through the eyes of a child who became an adult. Nothing has done that as well, and the game should be heralded for it's artistic vision, but I still love Twilight's more. I love the interaction between the characters, and how they've worked harder to add a more cinematic feel to the cinemas. Like the sequence where Zelda surrenders in the Castle flashback. That leads to the voice acting. I don't want any. They were going to add acting into this one, but they yanked it out. Zelda games have since Ocarina relied on pantomime to express character emotion, and relied on written narrative to express story. That has always given the series the feel of a living book in motion. Games use voice acting as a crutch to express the emotion, while leaving other minute details unattended. I love the feel of reading the text, the looking at the character's expression to see how they feel. All the elements have to be in place for it to work, but when it does, it's a beautiful thing. Voice acting would take that away. Case and point, I have decided this is my favorite Zelda. I'll probably take some flack for it, but the opinion stands. The things that bug a lot of people about the game aren't issues for me, and all the things that I care about are in full swing. It's like Twilight Princess and Gears of War. I get something different from each game that I love differently. I don't necessarily think that the two should borrow elements from each other to be better. That's my opinion. __________________ Last edited by ThirdMarioBro; 12-30-2006 at 03:52 PM.*

12-29-2006, 07:37 PM	#129
Dr. Doom Allons-y! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Castle Doom Posts: 4,535	And here I am clocking in with a final time of 50:10. If you wanna ask me why I took as long as I did (this is about the same amount of time I'd spend on an RPG), I really coudln't tell you. I must have just either done far more exploring than I remembered or the dungeons without a strategy guide took me longer than it would for folks who are used to that kinda thing. Anyways, I've stated before that several points I've had to actually consider if this would replace OoT as not only my favorite Zelda game but as the #1 game on my list. I haven't quite decided yet, but the fact alone that I had to consider it I think is pretty huge. Needless to say I was incredibly happy with the game, I can't really think of any major complaints. They created a world once again that you could get lost in (in the good way) along with a top-notch soundtrack, regardless of the medium in which it was recorded. Every last boss fight and even the mini boss fights were all unique and innovative, all the way down to the last few. You never really knew what to expect. It's defiantely going to end up at a very high spot on my list, I can guarantee that. As for whether or not it will take the top spot, I'll have to think on that more a bit more. Anyways, cheers to Twilight Princess. __________________ I love you, Pickle.

12-29-2006, 07:38 PM	#130
ThirdMarioBro Tea Time! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,905	Well, yeah. I figured I would be considered dumb for that opinion, and so be it. __________________

12-29-2006, 09:02 PM	#131
PanMan Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 728	I agree about the text as opposed to voice acting. Text is better. __________________ My name is Pan . . . and I am the Man! [February 19, 2005] I believe that The Shredder will appear in the New Cartoon past Season 3

12-25-2006, 03:08 PM	#121
愛 Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,449	How can you suck at Zelda? The games are so easy. Some puzzles can kill you, but overall the games aren't meant to be difficult. I just think you deviate your attention too much to other games. Bad games, too.

12-27-2006, 07:48 PM	#124
Demented Utrom Hench Mutant Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 474	I finished the game, twice already Once on Wii.Second time on the Gamecube.I'm on my third play through already.The First time, took me 2 weeks.The second time only a week. IMO.I found the game too short.

12-29-2006, 04:35 PM	#127
愛 Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,449	Yeah, you're dumb. No, no real explanation why. But I did get to the second dungeon in 4 hours, while you're sitting on almost 5 times that on what, the third dungeon? Start playing!

12-29-2006, 07:19 PM	#128
Peanut Second Gear Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The New World Posts: 15,422	And I'll say I disagree with almost every point you made. The music through out TP is generally bad. And really, you listen to all that terrible 80's synth pop, so you looooove that archaic sht. Orchestrated music can work in exactly the same way as sampled can. And where is all this dynamic stuff you're talking about? Last time I played any Zelda, the music would cut in and out between enemy encounters and regular dungeon exploration, just like in Oblivion. This game feels old. Yeah, it gets away with having a decent art style and some good expression work, especially on Midna's character model, but that doesn't stop it from feeling like a game made in 1999. The. Wolf. Is. Terrible. Hands down. It feels like the worst kind of filler bullsht when you play as the wolf. Are you telling me you had fun collecting those f*cking Tears of Light three times in a row? That's a joke. You want to see how the lame wolf aspects should have worked in this game? Go play Okami. Honestly, I'm completely over TP. Every other Zelda game I played made me hop right back into a new game straight after I beat it the first time. I haven't touched TP since the day I beat it weeks ago.

12-29-2006, 09:31 PM	#132
Dr. Doom Allons-y! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Castle Doom Posts: 4,535	End of Game spoiler Spoiler: Oh yeah, Midna is HOT! __________________ I love you, Pickle.

12-30-2006, 04:35 AM	#134
ThirdMarioBro Tea Time! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,905	Well, we'll all never agree on that point, but you at least cannot deny the strength of the actual compositions themselves. Anyone? __________________

12-30-2006, 06:21 AM	#135
Barkworm Draconian leftist ruler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 6,761	Eeeh... I don't know. Most of the time the music in TP is just... there. Nothing really awe-inspiring. I like the new world map theme a lot but apart from that there weren't many tunes that really got stuck in my head. Not on the level of LttP. __________________ Make ****, not kill!

12-30-2006, 10:12 AM	#136
Mecha Cow Gorgeous and modest too Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,699	Actually, I don't have any problems with the fact that it's MIDI, I just think the compositions are really weak. It's just background music. Sorry, bud. I'm on my way to the last dungeon (Three dungeons in a row? What the hell, Nintendo?), so I'm a few hours away from finishing the game. I'll try to get a review up in a couple of days. __________________

12-30-2006, 11:16 AM	#137
Peanut Second Gear Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The New World Posts: 15,422	I'm looking forward to it, Mecha. I hope I'm not the only one who can see through all the bullsh*t Nintendo spouted about this "instant classic".

12-30-2006, 11:20 AM	#138
Barkworm Draconian leftist ruler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 6,761	I'm in the last dungeon right now and this thing is AWFUL. Seriously horrible. I hope the final boss fight will make up for this embodiment of boredom. EDIT: Yep, it did. __________________ Make ***, not kill! Last edited by Barkworm; 12-30-2006 at 12:55 PM.*

12-30-2006, 01:21 PM	#139
Mecha Cow Gorgeous and modest too Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,699	What?! What happened to 70 hours? You can't finish the game before me, cheater! And don't worry Peanut, going by your impressions and review we seem to have pretty much the same opinion about the game. __________________

12-30-2006, 01:43 PM	#140
~~LogicDonny~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,643	Nintendo has shot themselves in the foot because they overhyped it for saying that this will eb the best and looks like u all don't think so. i will put my agreement on this.. When I played oot and wind waker I played right to the end but when I play this game, I haven'ttouched the game for a week since I beaten the 6th dugeon. I don't even feel like playing it. it feels so-so. It was exciting at first but got boring..