TMNT 2007 is better than TMNT 1990

[biblanca]

So it says here - and I tend to agree with them. Any takers?

[gobo]

It really is a matter of taste. The first live-action movie was better at getting its point across. But, the new film was more fun. I'll take respectable over thrilling anyday.

[Blue]

I'm tempted to agree, if only because this one did such a great job of capturing the Turtles, IMO, exactly how they should look.

I am not dissing the original TMNT in any way, mind you; it is a great movie in its own right, it's a great TMNT movie, and its depiction of the Turtles via animatronics was absolutely revolutionary. But, that being said...just because it was amazing then doesn't mean that it can never be topped, or that it needs an equally important technological breakthrough to be topped. (Many of the bad reviews are panning the movie for being "just cgi" when the first film had revolutionary animatronics...are you kidding me?? That's like comparing a modern movie unfavorably to the first talky because the talky was revolutionary for its time!)

Animatronics was amazing, and the TMNT movie was great and very realistic for the time. BUT there are things you just can't do with live actors in suits. CGI can approximate Turtle motion much better...so you get all these great little motions and tics you just can't get from a foam face, no matter how much electronics you put in there. Tilts of the head, facial muscles moving, all the tiny details that go into making any one expression super-realistic. Not to mention, the Turtles' bodies can move in CGI the way actors just can't in those suits. Meaning we got to see the Turtles actually running the rooftops for the first time on the big screen- Turtles leaping, running up walls, moving the way they are supposed to move.

Personally I think the fight scenes are better in the new movie, partially for the reasons above. I think the jokes likewise tend to be better, because they're almost entirely character-based; many of the jokes in movie 1 were pop culture references and while I still enjoy some of them it's mostly for nostalgic reasons...they don't wear as well as I think the jokes in this movie will.

I think both movies are about equal in terms of darkness, grittiness, realism, whatever ya call it. I think they're both about equal in terms of script- they both had a very family-oriented subplot that was different but very emotional and effective in both films.

I think that in terms of major plot and villain, TMNT1 has a slight edge...I loved the new movie plot and the monsters, and I liked the direction they took with Winters, but Shredder comes across as more dangerous than the generals or Winters did. Plus you have the whole revenge thing, and the classic down-with-Shredder Turtles story, which is hard to beat...I mean, it was issue 1 of the comic, for Pete's sake. (Uh- no pun intended.)

However, I still give the prize to the newest movie, simply because I feel it's a better depiction of the Turtles visually, and that means a lot to me. I also must confess that it impacts me somewhat that unlike the first film, which was aimed more at younger kids, it felt like this movie was talking directly to ME. It wasn't an "adult" tmnt movie per se, but it felt more adult-accessible.

At any rate, it's very, very close, and I can't say I blame the people who hold the original flick to be their number one.

--Blue

[Time Mistress]

Nah. TMNT 2007 is close but:

Things I still like better about the first film -

This was the first time most of us knew the TMNT could be this serious

The perfect story for both cartoon and comic book audiences

Angry Raphael (again first time I'd seen it, and Raph instantly went from my least favorite Turtle to most)

Mirage adaptation

Elias as Casey

Jim Henson's Creature Shop

The Kodak moment

Campfire scene

Shredder

Kevin Clash

Cowabunga and other 90s lingo

The pizza obsession

Mike's chucking contest with the Foot member

Nostalgia for TMNT at the height of their popularity

And I'm sure I'm missing a few more

The magic is back (2007) but ain't nothing quite like the first time (1990) imho anyway.

[ardnealy]

TMNT 1990 had the best Casey Jones period. The Ending was also a lot more epic. TMNT 2007 had better fight scenes. It also featured smoothly moving turtles. I cant pick now!

[MAESTAS]

TMNT is sweet. But mikey and don arent in the movie. still cool though

[Revan]

Originally Posted by ardnealy

TMNT 1990 had the best Casey Jones period. The Ending was also a lot more epic. TMNT 2007 had better fight scenes. It also featured smoothly moving turtles. I cant pick now!

We shouldn't have to pick. We should be allowed to love all the movies if we so choose (even movie three if that's what floats your boat). I love movie one and TMNT both. I don't want to pick. They are both special to me.

[Lone Wolf]

This should go without saying, but !!!!SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!

I agree we shouldn't have to pick... but if we did, I would go with 2007. The characters are just animated so beautifully, their feelings seem come through in every frame. Also, I think the Turtles individual personalities were fleshed out more, whereas in the first one they all seemed just way too similar (with the exception of Raph) and lacked the textured dispositions that they have in 2007.

The fight sequences are just so much more convincing... kudos for the first film for creating a tense atmosphere with so little resources. They get away with fading to black (or fog) and using sound effects to suggest combat more than once in the movie. And the final battle with the foot is charming but... lacking climactic impact IMO. The battle with the Shredder is another example of great lighting, acting, cinemotography and sound making up for lacking effects or choreography. But in 2007, the moments where they are fighting hundreds of foot and the fight between Leo and Raph... it just blows away anything we've seen of the TMNT to this point.

Just look at the whole Leo chase sequence, where he slowly closes the gap in each shot and then rain gradually starts to fall and The Nightwatcher reaches the end of the roof and the camera pans out to reveal he has reached the end of the line as the music cescendos to its height.

Really man, its like comparing your new Ferrari to that loveable, reliable old clunker you drove in High School. Your old car had great charm and was sturdy as a workhorse, and you will always remember it fondly, but the Ferrari you drive now is just Sweet Ride 2.0; its a whole new world now.

[Peanut]

I'm going to go with 1990, because 2007 had a distinct lack of "teh funny" in it. Mike and Don were a great comic duo in the first movie, this one they're more like side characters, honestly.

[biblanca]

Good points Lone Wolf. Seems like we've finally reached a point technologically to meet the original imaginations of the Laird and Eastman. I'm sticking with my guns - 2007 is better!

[Lone Wolf]

Originally Posted by Blue

...

Animatronics was amazing, and the TMNT movie was great and very realistic for the time. BUT there are things you just can't do with live actors in suits. CGI can approximate Turtle motion much better...so you get all these great little motions and tics you just can't get from a foam face, no matter how much electronics you put in there. Tilts of the head, facial muscles moving, all the tiny details that go into making any one expression super-realistic. Not to mention, the Turtles' bodies can move in CGI the way actors just can't in those suits. Meaning we got to see the Turtles actually running the rooftops for the first time on the big screen- Turtles leaping, running up walls, moving the way they are supposed to move.

Personally I think the fight scenes are better in the new movie, partially for the reasons above. I think the jokes likewise tend to be better, because they're almost entirely character-based; many of the jokes in movie 1 were pop culture references and while I still enjoy some of them it's mostly for nostalgic reasons...they don't wear as well as I think the jokes in this movie will.

I think both movies are about equal in terms of darkness, grittiness, realism, whatever ya call it. I think they're both about equal in terms of script- they both had a very family-oriented subplot that was different but very emotional and effective in both films.

...

However, I still give the prize to the newest movie, simply because I feel it's a better depiction of the Turtles visually, and that means a lot to me. I also must confess that it impacts me somewhat that unlike the first film, which was aimed more at younger kids, it felt like this movie was talking directly to ME. It wasn't an "adult" tmnt movie per se, but it felt more adult-accessible.

...

--Blue

I agree on all points listed, particularly the point about the humor. I actually like the culture based humor of the first film to this day (I like the idea of the Turtles being invested in the world around them) but the character driven humor of 2007 really brought a texture to the characters that the first movie lacked IMO. Screen-time disparities aside, each turtle is far more unique and this was evident in the type of humor each brought to the film.

I also agree about the movie being more accessible to an older audience... with one caveat. It had a way more far-out premise with the portal to another dimension and 13 monsters and whatnot. So if an "adult" isn't into science fiction or fantasy and somehow got around the barrier of the TMNT as a concept (unlike Roger Ebert) then the whole premise of the threat would probably be just too much for them to accept the film. A Ninja Warrior figure as a villain is much more believable and accessible than 13 monsters and a portal to another world. I love science fiction and all that though, so it suits me fine...

[PrivateRadio]

2007's biggest strengths were in the characterizations and interactions. As a big fan of the 1990 movie, I still think the new movie slaughtered it in that department.

[ZariusTwo]

No f'ing way is it better. I think some people are just saying that without thinking and not really examining the first movie objectivly.

TMNT is solid, but it's too entrenched in a continuity only it knows, The first movie begins the mythology for new audiences and educates them along the way. The comedy is better, the violence is more intense because it's live-action, and come on...anyone who thinks the PS2's best attempt at providing villains for the movie is scarier than The Shredder in that film needs to rexamine themselves as fans, otherwise they simply don't know what there talking about and look thoroughly stupid

[Mr. Snackpants]

I'd have to disagree. I just finished watching TMNT 1 and 2 last last two nights. I haven't watched either in a bout 5 years. After a refresher in memory, I like TMNT '90 much better. I cannot say whether I like live action or cgi better, but the story and tone in TMNT '90 was much better.

I've also seen a lot of people saying TMNT 2 wasn't a good sequel. I must say I couldn't really understand why. I remembered it to be a great movie. I don't think it was too "silly'. Sure tokka and rahzar were pretty rediculous but it's still a decent movie. I think I might like that one more than the brand new one.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Snackpants

I've also seen a lot of people saying TMNT 2 wasn't a good sequel. I must say I couldn't really understand why. I remembered it to be a great movie. I don't think it was too "silly'. Sure tokka and rahzar were pretty rediculous but it's still a decent movie.

I agree. TMNT II has only the Vanilla Ice and shopping mall scenes as it's major flaws, objectivly, it advanced the storyline rather well and had as many gripping fight sequences as the first and the new movie

[Lone Wolf]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

No f'ing way is it better. I think some people are just saying that without thinking and not really examining the first movie objectivly.

TMNT is solid, but it's too entrenched in a continuity only it knows, The first movie begins the mythology for new audiences and educates them along the way. The comedy is better, the violence is more intense because it's live-action, and come on...anyone who thinks the PS2's best attempt at providing villains for the movie is scarier than The Shredder in that film needs to rexamine themselves as fans, otherwise they simply don't know what there talking about and look thoroughly stupid

I agree. TMNT II has only the Vanilla Ice and shopping mall scenes as it's major flaws, objectivly, it advanced the storyline rather well and had as many gripping fight sequences as the first and the new movie

If you really believe Vanilla Ice and only the shopping mall scenes were the only things wrong with that movie, I don't think you are in any position to insult anyone else's opinion or claim some monopoly on "objectivity".

Furthermore, if you continue your smarmy ways I may be forced to bop you with my bo staff. Hopefully your head will prove so hard that I will find myself vibrating like an electrecuted cartoon character, providing fertile ground for yet another "gripping" fight scene. Objectively speaking of course.

Afterward, perhaps I will let you knock me down to the sound of falling bowling pins. Objectively, these will be the only two corny moments of our conflict, I think. And if you can't see that, you're thoroughly stupid and need to reexamine yourself as a fan.

[Mr. Snackpants]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I agree. TMNT II has only the Vanilla Ice and shopping mall scenes as it's major flaws, objectivly, it advanced the storyline rather well and had as many gripping fight sequences as the first and the new movie

Yeah true, the opening scene was a bit "clowny?". haha.

I would guess I'm in the minority when I say I didn't mind Vanilla Ice and Ninja Rap... I actually, and don't kill me for saying this but I...liked it.

Go ninja, go ninja, go!

don't hurt me...

[Kendamu]

I've watched TMNT '90 about a billion times in the past month before seeing TMNT '07. Right now I'm on a "I like TMNT '07 better" kick simply because it was new in almost every way. The freshness of it brought back a lot of memories while creating new ones at the same time without making me feel like I'm grasping for straws in attempt to live in the past or something.

My opinion may change once the TMNT '07 DVD comes out and I can watch it a billion times in a month but right now I agree with IGN but for different reasons.

To sum it up, though, my favorite movie/incarnation changes all the time just like Kevin Munroe's favorite turtle changes all the time.

[iris]

Originally Posted by Mr. Snackpants

Go ninja, go ninja, go!

That scene rated a negative 10 for stealth.

But it was kinda fun.

[PrivateRadio]

Originally Posted by Lone Wolf

If you really believe Vanilla Ice and only the shopping mall scenes were the only things wrong with that movie, I don't think you are in any position to insult anyone else's opinion or claim some monopoly on "objectivity".

Furthermore, if you continue your smarmy ways I may be forced to bop you with my bo staff. Hopefully your head will prove so hard that I will find myself vibrating like an electrecuted cartoon character, providing fertile ground for yet another "gripping" fight scene. Objectively speaking of course.

Afterward, perhaps I will let you knock me down to the sound of falling bowling pins. Objectively, these will be the only two corny moments of our conflict, I think. And if you can't see that, your thoroughly stupid and need to reexamine yourself as a fan.

I enjoyed this post thoroughly.