How did Eastman and Laird feel?

[TristanHuwJones]

I wasn't implying that I was in the heads of every kid; I just meant that through conversations I've had with friends in viewing them since, a lot of us were surprised at what DID go over our heads. I had no idea what a Satanic ritual was when I was watching MOTU - to me they were just doing what had to be done in the show. The kids might not be passive to what's going on, but that doesn't mean they know particular things it might be making reference to, or understand the use of the reference because they don't necessarily have the exposure or knowledge required to fully comprehend what truly is going on at those 'darker' moments.

Those shows certainly exposed kids to some pretty dark stuff, but that doesn't mean they could grasp those things totally. I watch The Real Ghostbusters a heck of a lot, and there's possibly more in that show than any other show around at the time that goes totally over kids' heads. Ask a six year old who Lovecraft is, who the Four Horsement of the Apocalypse are, what Ragnarok or the Necronomicon is... when the Grundel episode aired, I had no idea what a parasite was, but I knew it was bad and it made the Grundel pretty damn scary. All the rituals, demons, mythology, just about everything in that show was based on real texts, traditions, etc. but I didn't know that when I was watching it. To me it was just what those characters did in that particular world to make X happen. Of course, I'm a little older now and I hope a fair bit wiser, and am amazed at how in depth these shows were!

I wasn't talking down to you Zarius, I just made a comment with a generalisation - I'll remember not to from now on - but if you're going to be so literal about what people say then you probably shouldn't say things like "it didn't go over ANYONE's heads" in the same paragraph, because even though I wasn't passive to what was going on, the reality of the concept was, for me and a number of other people, beyond total understanding at the time, and there for over A NUMBER of heads.

[VaughnMichael]

Allot of it sure as hell went over my head as a kid heck even some toons in passing years where really dark and I didn't even notice to buying them on dvd such as the power puff girls such scenes as Him (the devil) licking the prof's face I mean I seriously couldnt believe they got away with that one.
And blood lots of blood I find it funny how the power puff girls can get away with blood in their show but we get not one drop in tmnt. But I guess that was a differnt time frame and things are allot differnt at this point we've sort of stoped moving forward.

[TristanHuwJones]

I think John K. Ren and Stimpy is another one. There's a heck of a lot going on in that show that is simply too many years ahead of the Saturday morning demographic, but it works on the kids' level as well. I recently revisited Teknoman and was genuinely surprised by some of the intensity of the violence - even taking the translation and potential editing that would have taken place for localisation. I remember it being awesome when I watched it with breakfast, but not THAT awesome!

[Roseangelo]

Don't forget all of the cute 80s girly cartoons that turned dark the moment they became movies. Care Bears and Rainbow Brite both had dark movies and I *think* My Little Ponies, too, but I was never into them enough to remember that movie very well. But the green talking head in the book in the Care Bears movie scarred me for life.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Don't forget all of the cute 80s girly cartoons that turned dark the moment they became movies. Care Bears and Rainbow Brite both had dark movies and I *think* My Little Ponies, too, but I was never into them enough to remember that movie very well. But the green talking head in the book in the Care Bears movie scarred me for life.

The my little pony movie was very very dark.

[Coola Yagami]

True... I remember the Ghostbusters episode where Winston sold his soul to the devil... and he actually said the phrase too with no sugarcoating.

[Janus Prospero]

Back to the OP’s question, I wanted to post this, which might shed some light on the question at hand. This took a bit of digging to find, but at last I found this letter from Peter and Kevin in the back of Return to New York, Book 1. I believe this came about because one of the letters they had received and posted in a previous book dealt with a dad buying some of the comics for his kid, only to find it overtly violent. Anyway, back on topic, here is the letter in RtNY, Book 1 (emphasis is my own):

Originally this was to have been a long-winded, over-explained editorial about a subject we have had on our minds for quite some time now.
Labeling.
Do we have an obligation to our audience, or to ourselves as creators?
We feel we have both.
What do you do when it appears you’ve developed two audiences – one younger, for the wacky animated show and the toys, and one older, for the original source material?
What if those two audiences begin to merge? Younger readers, looking for the wacky comics, buy the grittier originals, and say, “Gross!”
An older reader, looking for the original, buys the wacky comics version, and says, “Yuck!”
What do you do?
Nothing.
Let them stand on their own. We’ve allowed the wacky side to happen, and enjoy it very much. All the while, though, we’ve kept the originals very much ours – forty pages of what we enjoy and want to see in our books, whether it comes from our own hands or from those of the talented people we work with. We’ve never carried a label on our books, and we’re not about to start. In fact, we’ve only considered it now because of the new, younger audience for the turtles.
It’s been hard coming to a firm decision not to label. We’ve done a lot of soul-searching, examining our own work and motives. Further complicating matters is the issue of creative freedom, which needs to be balanced with creative responsibility.
Ultimately we decided that there is nothing in our work on the turtles that should be hidden from even the youngest of our reader. It’s a subjective decision, and others with different standards of what is right and what is wrong might disagree with us, and that’s their right. . . just as it is ours to publish what we think is fit to print.

~ Kevin & Peter

[ I’m assuming it is OK to post this and hope it doesn’t infringe on some sort of copyright. If any of the admins find issue with this, feel free to PM me and I’ll just paraphrase the above and instead post a brief synopsis. ]

So, as you can see, I don’t think Kevin or Peter collectively had any huge issues with the original toon at the outset (at least not publicly). At the printing of this letter the original toon had only been through two seasons.

[jenna]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

But the green talking head in the book in the Care Bears movie scarred me for life.

Me too! Oh my God it frightened me so much as a child - I'm not sure I've recovered, as it just sent a shiver up my spine when I read your post!!

Originally Posted by Putrescent

The my little pony movie was very very dark.

It was: I still have nightmares about the smooze!

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Janus Prospero

Back to the OP’s question, I wanted to post this, which might shed some light on the question at hand. This took a bit of digging to find, but at last I found this letter from Peter and Kevin in the back of Return to New York, Book 1. I believe this came about because one of the letters they had received and posted in a previous book dealt with a dad buying some of the comics for his kid, only to find it overtly violent. Anyway, back on topic, here is the letter in RtNY, Book 1 (emphasis is my own):


[ I’m assuming it is OK to post this and hope it doesn’t infringe on some sort of copyright. If any of the admins find issue with this, feel free to PM me and I’ll just paraphrase the above and instead post a brief synopsis. ]

So, as you can see, I don’t think Kevin or Peter collectively had any huge issues with the original toon at the outset (at least not publicly). At the printing of this letter the original toon had only been through two seasons.

It's also cool that they decided to keep going with their vision instead of following the show/ Can you imagine the pissed off fans if the comics went from the TMNT fighting Karai and the Shredder Elite to.. 4 wisecrackin pizza fanatics stopping yet another plot from Shredder and Krang from rising the Technodrome?

[Splinter's Iroonna]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I'm sure E&L had to "OK" alot of things before they got started with the show, like the bandanas. I like the different colors because it's easy to tell them apart and they match their personalities, and yet I like the all red because it shows how the turltes are all part of the same clan, so to speak. But they knew it was to be a kids show, and kids would have never figured out who was who if not for the color coded bandanas.

I remember that argument-- HOW can kids tell them apart UNLESS they wear the colors and have their initials on their belts? To which someone else responded something to the effect that "they each carry different weapons-- duh".

It always burns me up when the powers that be think kids are just plain dumb.



But yeah, I'd also forgotten that statement by Kevin and Peter. I guess that pretty much says it all.

[ToTheNines]

Well if you ask me, it was totally necessary for the OT because the artists really drawn the turtles with any difference at all (after a while the kids should catch on to the voices, but colors make it easier) Now the NT and recent movie they all have different skin tones, faces and skull shapes, but the colors aren't totally needed, but I guess everyone is used to them. As for the live action films, those were made for the OT kiddies, so why not go with color?

[SassyGal]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Don't forget all of the cute 80s girly cartoons that turned dark the moment they became movies. Care Bears and Rainbow Brite both had dark movies and I *think* My Little Ponies, too, but I was never into them enough to remember that movie very well. But the green talking head in the book in the Care Bears movie scarred me for life.

OMG that is so true!! I cried when I saw the talking head in the book in the Care Bears movie!

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

It's also cool that they decided to keep going with their vision instead of following the show/ Can you imagine the pissed off fans if the comics went from the TMNT fighting Karai and the Shredder Elite to.. 4 wisecrackin pizza fanatics stopping yet another plot from Shredder and Krang from rising the Technodrome?

That is very true! I love the OT, but it just wouldn't work now, not after 2k3 set the new bar for TMNT

[ZariusTwo]

Yes...FF sure set the bar very high

Honestly, with the many homages, decisions, and ideas seen in the new series, it has'nt departed much from the original apart from the darker content. So it's "not working" is bulls*it. Laird simply does'nt want to repeat the same old thing, and that's more commendable.

Pretty sure more die-hard comic fans are pissed the TMNT thwart Baxter Stockman every five weeks over and over again, The Shredder coming back every two weeks, and waiting for the occasional comic adaptation every two years.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Pretty sure more die-hard comic fans are pissed the TMNT thwart Baxter Stockman every five weeks over and over again, The Shredder coming back every two weeks, and waiting for the occasional comic adaptation every two years.

Actully I happen to be one of those people which you can choose to believe me or not. Not like you care anyways but I'd much rather them not adapt the comics into episodes and keep coming up with new storys this is why I enjoyed Fas Forward so much and allot of the lost season as well.
The comics are so much better than what we got in 2k3 I mean don't get me wrong it was nice to see a few of my fave issues animated but they took allot of things and waterd them down. Which I'm sure they had to but thats not my point. I'm the sort of person who would rather see something done correctly or not done at all.
And you know now that I read back over what you posted I'm not sure if you're talking about 2k3 or the old toon since it sort of happens in both.
Quite frankly I like my tmnt worlds to be seperated I like my toon being the toon and my comics to be the comics.
And you know Fast Forward may not be the best thing we've ever had in Turtle land but it's most def. not the worst like I said before it's a breath of fresh air to allot of people because they where finally starting to get the humor thing down pretty well, they had new storys, and new characters just about every week and this is something that I really love about the Old toon making it top over any other animated incarnation of the turtles be it silly or not.