Most Hated Game Clichés! - Page 3

*Mecha Cow* · 09-12-2007, 09:24 AM

I can't believe I'm defending RPG's, but do you know what 'experience' means? Why would characters that don't fight gain experience?

Janus Prospero · 09-12-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecha Cow

I can't believe I'm defending RPG's, but do you know what 'experience' means? Why would characters that don't fight gain experience?

DBAD!

The fact of the matter is that a good number of RPGs do give exp to reserve party members and those games are much less tedious than those that don't. And keep in mind you're asking me to apply logic to an RPG. The same system where a mage can increase his/her strength after a level up even though he/she has been casting magic the entire time.

But if you absolutely need a rationalization for it so you can sleep at night... You can argue that they gain experience from observing the other party members or that they are having their own battles that occur off screen.

愛 · 09-12-2007, 12:18 PM

I wouldn't say not giving experience to reserve characters is a bad cliché, but forcing you to use characters you don't like or rather not use is definitely a bad one. And it happens a lot in RPG's. I'm the type that usually picks their favorite crew and sticks with them for the duration of the game. So when the final boss comes, and you have to fight with characters you didn't level up, that SUCKS.

Peanut · 09-12-2007, 12:33 PM

KOTOR did it right. Even when you left the other characters on the ship, they'd still level up. Once you pulled them out, you'd get a chance to level them to about 2 levels under the rest of your characters. Super Mario RPG did the same thing.

Although it may not be "realistic" it does subtract from the tedium that RPG's seem to suffer from.

*Mecha Cow* · 09-12-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

DBAD!

Come again?

Quote:

The fact of the matter is that a good number of RPGs do give exp to reserve party members and those games are much less tedious than those that don't. And keep in mind you're asking me to apply logic to an RPG. The same system where a mage can increase his/her strength after a level up even though he/she has been casting magic the entire time.

Hey, I don't disagree with you or anything, this stuff is definitely an issue in RPG's. Just the way you worded it was kinda weird, since giving XP to characters who didn't earn it defeats the point of the whole system (The logic argument is pretty weak though; there is such a thing as suspension of disbelief, but that's neither here nor there).

Hmm, or maybe RPG characters are Communists. I've never really considered that.

Janus Prospero · 09-12-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ai

I wouldn't say not giving experience to reserve characters is a bad cliché, but forcing you to use characters you don't like or rather not use is definitely a bad one. And it happens a lot in RPG's.

True...it's more a pet peeve than a cliché really. Still, it is hated at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peanut

KOTOR did it right. Even when you left the other characters on the ship, they'd still level up. Once you pulled them out, you'd get a chance to level them to about 2 levels under the rest of your characters. Super Mario RPG did the same thing.

See, that's what I'm talking about. FFX had a pretty good method of compromise. Only people that have participated in the battle gain exp. But since you could quickly and effortlessly swap party members in the game, it was fairly easy to do this. Plus, since every party member had a clearly defined role early on, swapping characters mid-battle was pretty much encouraged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecha Cow

Hey, I don't disagree with you or anything, this stuff is definitely an issue in RPG's. Just the way you worded it was kinda weird, since giving XP to characters who didn't earn it defeats the point of the whole system (The logic argument is pretty weak though; there is such a thing as suspension of disbelief, but that's neither here nor there).

I know, but you're still leveling up so it's not like the exp isn't earned really. I’m all for making games challenging, but there is a difference between being difficult and being monotonous. And I know RPGs already have their fair share of tedium built into the medium, but there is a point where it just gets ridiculous. It's just that in my opinion if a game developer is presented with two choices: use a system that is realistic but incredibly boring, or use a system that is care free but slightly less realistic, I think they should almost always go for the latter choice. It makes for a more enjoyable game.

A good example of this would be the health system in Gears of War (which I've since found in several other games, both pre and post GoW.) It's not terribly realistic, but it makes for a fast paced game and the fact that you don't have to manage first aid kits makes the game not tedious at all.

*Mecha Cow* · 09-12-2007, 04:44 PM

If you ask me RPG's should just do away with meaningless stats entirely. Keep the levelling, just make all values invisible. If I wanted to stare at numbers instead of playing a game I'd go do some equations.

愛 · 09-12-2007, 04:47 PM

Hey! I'm a Physics major. I like equations.

**GK Punk** · 09-12-2007, 04:50 PM

lol I love leveling up in RPGs. When I got FF X-2 I sat around for 6 hours at a time leveling up while talking to my then girlfriend. (You know, when you are at that stage where you talk all day and night.) I had all 3 up to 99 and maxed most of the classes on each character.

*Mecha Cow* · 09-12-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Hey! I'm a Physics major. I like equations.

Go play some Brain Training, nerd!

愛 · 09-12-2007, 05:08 PM

Man, I used to play that game every day when I first got it. You got me good.

Peanut · 09-15-2007, 02:33 PM

I thought of this one while playing Heavenly Sword.

Gates/doors that close and block your path when enemies turn up, only to magically open once the enemies are defeated. This makes sense in something like Zelda, where there's all this kind of magic and each dungeon is like a test designed to determine if the person is worthy to proceed. But in games like Heavenly Sword, or even BioShock, it makes no sense. God of War did have the whole "demon wall" or whatever you want to call it, where when monsters showed up a magical barrier would cover your exit and not dispell until they were all defeated, which makes a lot more sense than just a closed door.

What happens when all those guys are killed? Why does the door open? WHO opens it? Is there some point in time where the boss of this castle/dungeon/temple decides..
"I know if this person gets to me, they'll kill me. I also know they can't get through doors. So maybe I should magically link all of the doors to several of my worthless minions, who I've already lost thousands of to this one person, so that if they die the doors will magically open allowing passage. What's the worst that could happen?"
If all of these bad-ass characters can be thwarted by a door, why not just put all the doors down and leave them that way!?

I don't know, it just makes so very little sense and it's always kind of an annoying thing to deal with. Not like HS didn't have it's share of things that made no sense, like throwing shields at gongs to make doors open. I don't know about you guys, but I know most of my doors are opened using a system in which I must bounce thrown objects off of walls in order to hit an awkwardly placed gong. Either that, or I have to kill my neighbors.

*ToTheNines* · 09-15-2007, 05:16 PM

I don't really like how almost all TMNT games start with Shredder capturing April, which really didn't happen alot in the OT.

*Mr._Mutant_Man* · 10-05-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peanut

KOTOR did it right. Even when you left the other characters on the ship, they'd still level up. Once you pulled them out, you'd get a chance to level them to about 2 levels under the rest of your characters. Super Mario RPG did the same thing.

Although it may not be "realistic" it does subtract from the tedium that RPG's seem to suffer from.

X-Men Legends did something similar, too. I was afraid that not using one X-Man for a while would lead to them being like 10 levels behind, but that isn't the case.

On the TMNT thing, I guess it was to mirror the princess always being kidnapped.

I hate being knocked back really far whenever you get hit. It gets frustrating when you are jumping and there's a ton of enemies in the way.

Also, I'm kind of tired of all the androgynous characters in anime-like RPGs. Now maybe if you had one every so often, but I can't tell the gender of any of these characters anymore.

Worst offender: I dunno, all these RPGs seem to blend together now.

TristanHuwJones · 03-01-2009, 10:15 PM

*Fire and Ice levels -- boring and overdone. I am yet to play a fire level I have enjoyed.

*Illogical fetch quests you MUST do to finish the game. I hate having to run from one side of a mansion through some stupid route just because I've found a key that'll get me into a door on the other side. It's always in a stupid location or behind some needless, illogical puzzle too.

*Push and Pull boxes/crates/square objects. Tired and predictable. Puzzles also take too long when they're too easy to work out.

*Final bosses that aren't really final bosses. You just expect most final bosses to become something ridiculous these days. I did like how Twilight Princess added the horseback pursuit though.

TristanHuwJones · 03-01-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr._Mutant_Man

Also, I'm kind of tired of all the androgynous characters in anime-like RPGs. Now maybe if you had one every so often, but I can't tell the gender of any of these characters anymore.

Agreed. The market is saturated by games that all look pretty much the same to me, and characters who you'd swear were in the last one you played.

**ThirdMarioBro** · 03-01-2009, 10:52 PM

I chalk a lot of that up to the fact that every developer us using the Unreal 3 engine to save on costs since game development runs over $10,000,000 a pop nowadays. Its very annoying and sucks a lot out of the experience for me. I also tire of the fact that everybody goes for photo-realism on machines that obviously can't provide it. Nobody is going to remember 90% of the games that come out in five years.

*Hannah* · 03-02-2009, 02:33 PM

This isn't a cliché, but a pet peeve- I really hate long cut scenes. Or even just huge amounts of text. I hate sitting through that sh*t and it's rare they let you skip through it. I almost die every time I start a new game of Wind Waker because the intro NEVER ENDS.

EDIT: SPORTS GAMES. If you want to play sports, go outside and play sports!

TristanHuwJones · 03-02-2009, 02:35 PM

It's an awesome series and all, but some of Metal Gear's beyond epic cutscenes kill me. Thank god you can skip them.

I also get really tired of in-game introductions to the game mechanics. They put that **** in the booklet. READ!!

*XERO* · 03-02-2009, 02:43 PM

Speaking of game intros, I hate when you first turn the game on, the intro pops up.

Then when you start a new game, the FRIGGIN' intro starts again.

I think we get the point now.

09-12-2007, 09:24 AM	#41
Mecha Cow Gorgeous and modest too Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,699	I can't believe I'm defending RPG's, but do you know what 'experience' means? Why would characters that don't fight gain experience? __________________

09-12-2007, 04:44 PM	#47
Mecha Cow Gorgeous and modest too Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,699	If you ask me RPG's should just do away with meaningless stats entirely. Keep the levelling, just make all values invisible. If I wanted to stare at numbers instead of playing a game I'd go do some equations. __________________

03-01-2009, 10:15 PM	#55
TristanHuwJones Official TMNT Staff/Cast Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,419	Fire and Ice levels -- boring and overdone. I am yet to play a fire level I have enjoyed. Illogical fetch quests you MUST do to finish the game. I hate having to run from one side of a mansion through some stupid route just because I've found a key that'll get me into a door on the other side. It's always in a stupid location or behind some needless, illogical puzzle too. Push and Pull boxes/crates/square objects. Tired and predictable. Puzzles also take too long when they're too easy to work out. Final bosses that aren't really final bosses. You just expect most final bosses to become something ridiculous these days. I did like how Twilight Princess added the horseback pursuit though. __________________ Still alive (somehow)... tristansbones.bsky.social and instagram @ instagram.com/tristans_bones

03-01-2009, 10:52 PM	#57
ThirdMarioBro Tea Time! Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,905	I chalk a lot of that up to the fact that every developer us using the Unreal 3 engine to save on costs since game development runs over $10,000,000 a pop nowadays. Its very annoying and sucks a lot out of the experience for me. I also tire of the fact that everybody goes for photo-realism on machines that obviously can't provide it. Nobody is going to remember 90% of the games that come out in five years. __________________

03-02-2009, 02:33 PM	#58
Hannah Once more, with feeling! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 4,111	This isn't a cliché, but a pet peeve- I really hate long cut scenes. Or even just huge amounts of text. I hate sitting through that sh*t and it's rare they let you skip through it. I almost die every time I start a new game of Wind Waker because the intro NEVER ENDS. EDIT: SPORTS GAMES. If you want to play sports, go outside and play sports! __________________

09-12-2007, 12:18 PM	#43
愛 Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,449	I wouldn't say not giving experience to reserve characters is a bad cliché, but forcing you to use characters you don't like or rather not use is definitely a bad one. And it happens a lot in RPG's. I'm the type that usually picks their favorite crew and sticks with them for the duration of the game. So when the final boss comes, and you have to fight with characters you didn't level up, that SUCKS.

09-12-2007, 12:33 PM	#44
Peanut Second Gear Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The New World Posts: 15,422	KOTOR did it right. Even when you left the other characters on the ship, they'd still level up. Once you pulled them out, you'd get a chance to level them to about 2 levels under the rest of your characters. Super Mario RPG did the same thing. Although it may not be "realistic" it does subtract from the tedium that RPG's seem to suffer from.

09-12-2007, 04:47 PM	#48
愛 Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,449	Hey! I'm a Physics major. I like equations.

09-12-2007, 04:50 PM	#49
GK Punk I'm your Devil Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,439	lol I love leveling up in RPGs. When I got FF X-2 I sat around for 6 hours at a time leveling up while talking to my then girlfriend. (You know, when you are at that stage where you talk all day and night.) I had all 3 up to 99 and maxed most of the classes on each character.

09-12-2007, 05:08 PM	#51
愛 Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,449	Man, I used to play that game every day when I first got it. You got me good.

09-15-2007, 02:33 PM	#52
Peanut Second Gear Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The New World Posts: 15,422	I thought of this one while playing Heavenly Sword. Gates/doors that close and block your path when enemies turn up, only to magically open once the enemies are defeated. This makes sense in something like Zelda, where there's all this kind of magic and each dungeon is like a test designed to determine if the person is worthy to proceed. But in games like Heavenly Sword, or even BioShock, it makes no sense. God of War did have the whole "demon wall" or whatever you want to call it, where when monsters showed up a magical barrier would cover your exit and not dispell until they were all defeated, which makes a lot more sense than just a closed door. What happens when all those guys are killed? Why does the door open? WHO opens it? Is there some point in time where the boss of this castle/dungeon/temple decides.. "I know if this person gets to me, they'll kill me. I also know they can't get through doors. So maybe I should magically link all of the doors to several of my worthless minions, who I've already lost thousands of to this one person, so that if they die the doors will magically open allowing passage. What's the worst that could happen?" If all of these bad-ass characters can be thwarted by a door, why not just put all the doors down and leave them that way!? I don't know, it just makes so very little sense and it's always kind of an annoying thing to deal with. Not like HS didn't have it's share of things that made no sense, like throwing shields at gongs to make doors open. I don't know about you guys, but I know most of my doors are opened using a system in which I must bounce thrown objects off of walls in order to hit an awkwardly placed gong. Either that, or I have to kill my neighbors.

09-15-2007, 05:16 PM	#53
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,384	I don't really like how almost all TMNT games start with Shredder capturing April, which really didn't happen alot in the OT.

03-02-2009, 02:35 PM	#59
TristanHuwJones Official TMNT Staff/Cast Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,419	It's an awesome series and all, but some of Metal Gear's beyond epic cutscenes kill me. Thank god you can skip them. I also get really tired of in-game introductions to the game mechanics. They put that **** in the booklet. READ!! __________________ Still alive (somehow)... tristansbones.bsky.social and instagram @ instagram.com/tristans_bones

03-02-2009, 02:43 PM	#60
XERO Hybrid Theorist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Alamo City Posts: 8,185	Speaking of game intros, I hate when you first turn the game on, the intro pops up. Then when you start a new game, the FRIGGIN' intro starts again. I think we get the point now. __________________ "Travel at the speed of light... then hit the nitro!"