Not turtle relasted, at least I hope not. Lead Painted Toys.

~~Toonami Tom~~ · 11-08-2007, 09:35 PM

What's up with all the toys with lead paint? Why can't the factories is communist China get their act together and stop using toxic crud on toys? Not that anyone here would be know the answers these questions, I just felt like talking about this.

To answer my own questions, I would say it's a mix between the people making the toys not caring, being cheap, and being ignorant.

Do you think any turtles toys have lead on them? I really wouldn't be that surprised if they did.

*tmntman* · 11-08-2007, 11:01 PM

I think the truth is closer to it just being plain cheaper. (Although I don't know why lead based paint would be any significant savings.) The same mentality that sent all of the production over to China to save a few dollars or even a few pennies per unit didn't stop once they started manufacturing over there. The factories still have to compete to try to bring each product in as cheaply as possible. Because if some other factory will do it for $.02 per figure less, then they are going to lose the business.

Walmart was infamous for doing this. They would use their purchasing power to force vendors to drop their prices until the only option was to send their facilities overseas. And if they refused, the company was bought out for the name and then the production was sent overseas. (Look at the history of Rubbermaid.) When you are talking about toys, which are already largely produced in in China, and the worlds largest toy retailer tells you to cut your total cost by $0.10 per figure or they won't carry that particular line, the factory that puts in a bid for $0.11 less than every other factory looks pretty good. The question of where that extra $0.11 in expense went is something you choose to overlook. Right up until the safety tests come back positive for lead.

And don't think that the factories don't care. They are trying to run a business and stay in business. Pissing off Mattel or Hasbro or whatever company it is that contracted with them to make a particular toy isn't good business. First of all, if the toys fall safety tests, they can't deliver the product and may lose that job. Worse yet, if they lose a client like Hasbro, Mattel or Playmates, they have lost huge amounts of future work too. And now on top of all of that, the Chinese government is starting to crack down on some of these factories that cut corners and pull licenses. They don't want Chinese exports to continue to get a black eye because of the recalls.

METALHEAD · 11-09-2007, 01:27 AM

i'm telling you man, the chinese drugged our cats and dogs, now theyre trying to kill our children. i see this as an act of terrorisem and they need to be stopped.

*odupianist* · 11-09-2007, 08:26 AM

why is lead paint even made these days with the known harms of it is my question

Triglyph · 11-09-2007, 11:00 AM

I do happen to have insight on this...

lead paint USED to be legal in the USA. At the time most paint was lead paint...then suddenly it wasn't legal anymore...Suppliers who weren't in the USA couldn't sell what they had made already and suppliers in the USA knew the only place to sell their lead paint was to overseas buyers...so it all ended up in factories in asia waiting to be used...since it isn't in demand, it sits around with no one wanting to purchase it for use in products going to the USA, Canada, Europe, etc

So now there are alot of factories that have stockpiles of lead paint. Its not that they are currently producing it. They are trying to get rid of what they already have. Its like having a warehouse full of toxic waste. You can't even throw it away...The bad stuff getting used for US toys was accidental and is the result of some shananagins by some someone claiming to have good paint, then supplying the bad stuff to the factories...and people take others at their word and didn't test as they should have.

In many countries, lead paint is not illegal (although it is harmful) so products manufactured for sale in countries with less strict safety requirements use lead paint because its sitting around and it is for sale for MUCH less than non-lead paint. They're willing to buy because its legal in the target market and its cheaper to get...seemingly win-win.

Just so you're aware too...If anyone has any "made in china" bootlegs, you can bet they were painted using lead paint.

Hope that clears it up for you. Some people here know more than you would expect

jestergoblin · 11-09-2007, 11:04 AM

Lead paint dries faster. On an assembly line, shaving a few minutes or seconds off the production of an item can drastically reduce the time it takes to make the item.

~~Toonami Tom~~ · 11-09-2007, 11:09 AM

We're in too deep with China. The chinese know that most likely the USA won't take their toys somewhere else.

The guy using the lead paint on the toys probably only gets like 50 cents a day or something, so he doesn't have any incentive to make sure everything is safe. It's all about cost. It's disgusting.

The chinese government doesn't care about their own people, so they don't give a crap about the USA having safe toys either.

*tmntman* · 11-09-2007, 12:55 PM

Triglyph
I would agree with almost everything you said except the part about the paint having sat around since before it was outlawed. While I'm not sure if they have adjusted the standards for what level is considered safe in more recent years, but lead paint has been known to be harmful all the way back to the sixties. Its general use was made illegal starting as early as 1978 (that is the date for its use in housing) While overseas factories may have a stockpile, I doubt it has been around for almost 30 years. It would be hard to imagine that 30 year old paint is going to work well anyway.

It is more likely that suppliers that manufacture the paint are either passing off leaded paint that was made for use on products for other countries as lead free or they are simply making leaded paint since it is a cheaper way to get an equivalent level of quality and durability from the paint.

Triglyph · 11-09-2007, 01:21 PM

tmntman, I was probably trying to over simplify the reason for how it would get into the toys without explaining further use outside of the toy world. Everything you're saying is correct.

*gobo* · 11-09-2007, 02:03 PM

In response to the subject, I recall buying lead TMNT figurines from a comic shop in circa '89. I think they were for an RPG, but Raph's said bent and broke. Why'd I ever get them? I'm not and never have been into model-making, so I couldn't paint the suckers.

*tmntman* · 11-09-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobo

Why'd I ever get them?

Are you asking a rhetorical question or wondering how a "lead" figurine is okay to sell but a plastic figure with a small amount of lead in the paint is cause for a safety recall?

*gobo* · 11-09-2007, 06:17 PM

I was trying to make my lengthy explanations a bit shorter. Actually, since I haven't read hardly any of this thread yet, it was rhetorical. I know that I only bought it because it was unexplored (by me, anyway) TMNT territory. The sad thing is that I never did figure out who the non-turtle characters were, and I can't even remember their names now.

The fact is that these miniature figurines were of Raph and some mad scientist and his monsters. They must have been only an inch tall. However, they weren't marketed as toys (as in 'intended for children'). As far as I can recall, they were random, comic-style, collectible nick-nacks.

Oh, and that recollection was just about how it was somewhat "turtle relasted". ^_^

jestergoblin · 11-09-2007, 07:24 PM

They were probably pewter figures, not lead.

*gobo* · 11-09-2007, 07:44 PM

Upon further... recollecting ^_^ , I believe it was graphite. Can't imagine why else I thought they were lead. After all, graphite replaced lead in (most) pencils.

*Roseangelo* · 11-09-2007, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobo

The sad thing is that I never did figure out who the non-turtle characters were, and I can't even remember their names now.

The fact is that these miniature figurines were of Raph and some mad scientist and his monsters. They must have been only an inch tall. However, they weren't marketed as toys (as in 'intended for children'). As far as I can recall, they were random, comic-style, collectible nick-nacks.

Oh, and that recollection was just about how it was somewhat "turtle relasted". ^_^

This is the thread you want for all of your Dark Horse mini figure needs, which is what you're describing. They are referred to as lead figures, but I do not know what the actual content of lead is, if any.

jestermon · 11-09-2007, 08:45 PM

All pewter contains lead, in varying amounts it depends on what quality of Pewter it is as to lead content.

At some point it was popular in dinnerware, and various craft goods.

Ralidium is the metal they use now for most every gaming mini that is metal, it is a lead free pewter, and I suppose lead pewter was outlawed at some point in the eighties, as this is the time several lines re-launched with lead-free figures.

jestergoblin · 11-10-2007, 12:20 AM

The sale of pewter isn't illegal. In fact, high grades of pewter do not contain any lead but are a tin-copper alloy.

jestermon · 11-10-2007, 10:24 AM

No, but it seems that the lead containing type has been steered clear of in most products for some reason.

*Drtooth* · 11-11-2007, 11:52 AM

Funny thing. They seem to either affect bargain basement bootlegg dollar store crap, OR Mattel. None of the other big toy manufacturers have had this problem.

But hey, what do you expect from a country that's communist and the largest economic country in the world? We did that. Because of greedy corporations like WalMart, there are no jobs here. And soon, even China will be too expensive, so we'll have to look for another source of slave labor over seas. Just so these conglomerates can keep the working man down.

~~Toonami Tom~~ · 11-11-2007, 12:27 PM

^^^^ You are totally right.

11-08-2007, 09:35 PM	#1
~~Toonami Tom~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: USA Posts: 4,939	Not turtle relasted, at least I hope not. Lead Painted Toys. What's up with all the toys with lead paint? Why can't the factories is communist China get their act together and stop using toxic crud on toys? Not that anyone here would be know the answers these questions, I just felt like talking about this. To answer my own questions, I would say it's a mix between the people making the toys not caring, being cheap, and being ignorant. Do you think any turtles toys have lead on them? I really wouldn't be that surprised if they did.

11-08-2007, 11:01 PM	#2
tmntman Mad Scientist Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,444	I think the truth is closer to it just being plain cheaper. (Although I don't know why lead based paint would be any significant savings.) The same mentality that sent all of the production over to China to save a few dollars or even a few pennies per unit didn't stop once they started manufacturing over there. The factories still have to compete to try to bring each product in as cheaply as possible. Because if some other factory will do it for $.02 per figure less, then they are going to lose the business. Walmart was infamous for doing this. They would use their purchasing power to force vendors to drop their prices until the only option was to send their facilities overseas. And if they refused, the company was bought out for the name and then the production was sent overseas. (Look at the history of Rubbermaid.) When you are talking about toys, which are already largely produced in in China, and the worlds largest toy retailer tells you to cut your total cost by $0.10 per figure or they won't carry that particular line, the factory that puts in a bid for $0.11 less than every other factory looks pretty good. The question of where that extra $0.11 in expense went is something you choose to overlook. Right up until the safety tests come back positive for lead. And don't think that the factories don't care. They are trying to run a business and stay in business. Pissing off Mattel or Hasbro or whatever company it is that contracted with them to make a particular toy isn't good business. First of all, if the toys fall safety tests, they can't deliver the product and may lose that job. Worse yet, if they lose a client like Hasbro, Mattel or Playmates, they have lost huge amounts of future work too. And now on top of all of that, the Chinese government is starting to crack down on some of these factories that cut corners and pull licenses. They don't want Chinese exports to continue to get a black eye because of the recalls. __________________ Check out my site at http://www.tmnttoys.com/ or follow me on Twitter, @TMNTtoys

11-09-2007, 12:55 PM	#8
tmntman Mad Scientist Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,444	Triglyph I would agree with almost everything you said except the part about the paint having sat around since before it was outlawed. While I'm not sure if they have adjusted the standards for what level is considered safe in more recent years, but lead paint has been known to be harmful all the way back to the sixties. Its general use was made illegal starting as early as 1978 (that is the date for its use in housing) While overseas factories may have a stockpile, I doubt it has been around for almost 30 years. It would be hard to imagine that 30 year old paint is going to work well anyway. It is more likely that suppliers that manufacture the paint are either passing off leaded paint that was made for use on products for other countries as lead free or they are simply making leaded paint since it is a cheaper way to get an equivalent level of quality and durability from the paint. __________________ Check out my site at http://www.tmnttoys.com/ or follow me on Twitter, @TMNTtoys

11-09-2007, 02:03 PM	#10
gobo Wacky Action Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: on Earth Posts: 12,784	In response to the subject, I recall buying lead TMNT figurines from a comic shop in circa '89. I think they were for an RPG, but Raph's said bent and broke. Why'd I ever get them? I'm not and never have been into model-making, so I couldn't paint the suckers. __________________ Live and let live... or go to hell.

11-09-2007, 06:17 PM	#12
gobo Wacky Action Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: on Earth Posts: 12,784	I was trying to make my lengthy explanations a bit shorter. Actually, since I haven't read hardly any of this thread yet, it was rhetorical. I know that I only bought it because it was unexplored (by me, anyway) TMNT territory. The sad thing is that I never did figure out who the non-turtle characters were, and I can't even remember their names now. The fact is that these miniature figurines were of Raph and some mad scientist and his monsters. They must have been only an inch tall. However, they weren't marketed as toys (as in 'intended for children'). As far as I can recall, they were random, comic-style, collectible nick-nacks. Oh, and that recollection was just about how it was somewhat "turtle relasted". ^_^ __________________ Live and let live... or go to hell.

11-09-2007, 01:27 AM	#3
METALHEAD Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: san benito texas Posts: 734	i'm telling you man, the chinese drugged our cats and dogs, now theyre trying to kill our children. i see this as an act of terrorisem and they need to be stopped.

11-09-2007, 08:26 AM	#4
odupianist Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,744	why is lead paint even made these days with the known harms of it is my question

11-09-2007, 11:00 AM	#5
Triglyph Foot Soldier Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 215	I do happen to have insight on this... lead paint USED to be legal in the USA. At the time most paint was lead paint...then suddenly it wasn't legal anymore...Suppliers who weren't in the USA couldn't sell what they had made already and suppliers in the USA knew the only place to sell their lead paint was to overseas buyers...so it all ended up in factories in asia waiting to be used...since it isn't in demand, it sits around with no one wanting to purchase it for use in products going to the USA, Canada, Europe, etc So now there are alot of factories that have stockpiles of lead paint. Its not that they are currently producing it. They are trying to get rid of what they already have. Its like having a warehouse full of toxic waste. You can't even throw it away...The bad stuff getting used for US toys was accidental and is the result of some shananagins by some someone claiming to have good paint, then supplying the bad stuff to the factories...and people take others at their word and didn't test as they should have. In many countries, lead paint is not illegal (although it is harmful) so products manufactured for sale in countries with less strict safety requirements use lead paint because its sitting around and it is for sale for MUCH less than non-lead paint. They're willing to buy because its legal in the target market and its cheaper to get...seemingly win-win. Just so you're aware too...If anyone has any "made in china" bootlegs, you can bet they were painted using lead paint. Hope that clears it up for you. Some people here know more than you would expect

11-09-2007, 11:04 AM	#6
jestergoblin Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,466	Lead paint dries faster. On an assembly line, shaving a few minutes or seconds off the production of an item can drastically reduce the time it takes to make the item.

11-09-2007, 11:09 AM	#7
~~Toonami Tom~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: USA Posts: 4,939	We're in too deep with China. The chinese know that most likely the USA won't take their toys somewhere else. The guy using the lead paint on the toys probably only gets like 50 cents a day or something, so he doesn't have any incentive to make sure everything is safe. It's all about cost. It's disgusting. The chinese government doesn't care about their own people, so they don't give a crap about the USA having safe toys either.

11-09-2007, 01:21 PM	#9
Triglyph Foot Soldier Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 215	tmntman, I was probably trying to over simplify the reason for how it would get into the toys without explaining further use outside of the toy world. Everything you're saying is correct.

11-09-2007, 07:24 PM	#13
jestergoblin Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,466	They were probably pewter figures, not lead.

11-09-2007, 07:44 PM	#14
gobo Wacky Action Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: on Earth Posts: 12,784	Upon further... recollecting ^_^ , I believe it was graphite. Can't imagine why else I thought they were lead. After all, graphite replaced lead in (most) pencils. __________________ Live and let live... or go to hell.

11-09-2007, 08:45 PM	#16
jestermon Hench Mutant Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 486	lead All pewter contains lead, in varying amounts it depends on what quality of Pewter it is as to lead content. At some point it was popular in dinnerware, and various craft goods. Ralidium is the metal they use now for most every gaming mini that is metal, it is a lead free pewter, and I suppose lead pewter was outlawed at some point in the eighties, as this is the time several lines re-launched with lead-free figures.

11-10-2007, 12:20 AM	#17
jestergoblin Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,466	The sale of pewter isn't illegal. In fact, high grades of pewter do not contain any lead but are a tin-copper alloy.

11-10-2007, 10:24 AM	#18
jestermon Hench Mutant Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 486	no No, but it seems that the lead containing type has been steered clear of in most products for some reason.

11-11-2007, 11:52 AM	#19
Drtooth Foot Elite Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,439	Funny thing. They seem to either affect bargain basement bootlegg dollar store crap, OR Mattel. None of the other big toy manufacturers have had this problem. But hey, what do you expect from a country that's communist and the largest economic country in the world? We did that. Because of greedy corporations like WalMart, there are no jobs here. And soon, even China will be too expensive, so we'll have to look for another source of slave labor over seas. Just so these conglomerates can keep the working man down. __________________ [Insert mildly amusing banner here]

11-11-2007, 12:27 PM	#20
~~Toonami Tom~~ Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: USA Posts: 4,939	^^^^ You are totally right.