JC Penny to stop carrying TMNT apparel

**Jester** · 11-19-2007, 06:34 PM

http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/s...el/JC%20Penney
I just read this blurb on Murph's blog about a fight with JC Penny as well as some of the clothing companies over camo prints. Comments?
I myself don't see the huge deal, but then I'm not a Mirage staffer and I am a military brat. I can understand though if Mirage says "nay." then that should be enough, but I wonder what the hubbub over TMNT on camo prints is. Oh well.

*ToTheNines* · 11-19-2007, 07:02 PM

I've never seen a single TMNT shirt at Penny's, and I hate camo. But it does suck that Mirage lost money, oh well... stick it to the Man.

*Masked Ninja* · 11-19-2007, 07:28 PM

Huh. I don't think of camo as having any political connotations. I mean, the army significance is there, but that's not necessarily tied down to one country (or is it? I guess olive drab could be a cool solid color). And I like camo as a base myself, but I guess it's Mirage's call. That design they show is pretty cool - I'd buy it.

*Roseangelo* · 11-19-2007, 08:08 PM

I've been trying to figure out where I stand on this. I think not allowing camo might be more of a political statement than allowing camo. Because yeah, the reason I would buy anything with camo would be simply because I like the colors (and when your favorite color is green, it fits right in).

mattmanw54301 · 11-19-2007, 08:54 PM

What about the military turtles figures that came out in the 80s?!?!?! Weren't those making a political statement?

*CyberCubed* · 11-19-2007, 09:58 PM

^ Haha, very true.

There is an old "Sergent Raph" figure from the 80's toyline that you can see on the site. I think Leo had a military outfit in the old toyline too.

*Roseangelo* · 11-19-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmanw54301

What about the military turtles figures that came out in the 80s?!?!?! Weren't those making a political statement?

Yeah, but that was before Al Gore didn't become president, infinitely pissing off Peter Laird.

**Jester** · 11-19-2007, 10:10 PM

I do applaud Mirage for keeping politics to a minimum (save the letters pages) cause that's a sure fire way to alienate half of your fan-base.

**Machias Banshee** · 11-19-2007, 10:51 PM

Its too bad they had to do an all or nothing situation. I'm sure they could have chosen different designs...

That's business for you, I guess.

longbowhunter · 11-19-2007, 11:07 PM

WOW...big props to Laird,Murphy,and the gang at MIRAGE for sticking to their guns. The fact of the matter is,as Murphy stated,its up to MIRAGE to decide what is and is not OK for the TMNT to appear on. The fact that so many different people tried to strongarm them into doing something they clearly didnt want to do is both sad and amazing. Not that I was a frequent customer before,but now I have ZERO desire to ever shop at JC Pennys again. Anybody else who feels the same way should contact their corporate offices and let them now what happens when they piss off the TMNT fanbase.

*VaughnMichael* · 11-19-2007, 11:37 PM

this issue was if you read it that they 4kids and giant wanted to put war icons and symobls with the turtles.
Now I don't have kids but I sure as hell don't want my kids favorite character promoting a war even if it is a bullsh1t one.

Fledermaus · 11-19-2007, 11:40 PM

Camo can represent so many political backgrounds. Obviously it can represent the GOP, given that most military folks will lean that way in their beliefs. It can also be associated with militaristic regimes in other parts of the world, or even the protesting ex-soldier (Vietnam vets from Santa Cruz, anyone?).

But camo nowadays is no longer a statement; it's a product -- much like the Che Guevarra/christ face or "free tibet" logos stamped onto everything alternative, most consumers don't give it another thought. It's accepted into the realm of "coolness" that rakes in the dough.

Perhaps in the 70's 80's or even 90's if you saw someone wearing that pattern you could rightfully assume that they were politically "active" in one way or another. Nowadays however, when I think of old camouflage patterns I think first of mainstream fashion for the everyman (or woman, if there are rhinestones embedded across the breasts) shopping at Target or Wal Mart. It's something you can buy in shades of pink and blue, as shorts or a tank, or socks, or a scrunchy, or a handbag.

I'm not happy that Mirage ended up losing so much money for this, but there's a temporary price to pay for siding with morality over profit.

On the bright side, TMNT at its most innovative has always been a kind of underground thing. I think, in that sense, it needs to get back to those underground routes to regain its integrity.

A combination of going too far mainstream while losing sight of their earliest supporters, for example, proved disastrous for Airwalk athletic shoes in the late 90's. According to Creative Director Chad Farmer, "The Company began to listen more and more to the sales staff and the product started to get that homogenized, mainstream look ... the number one complaint is, what happened to the cool product?" (Read The Tipping Point if you haven't already. It's very interesting.)

Also, regarding the TMNT military figures in the 80's -- I'm sure Kevin Eastman, who wrote that insane bout of Raph/Casey shooting up the town with a bazooka chomping on stogies-- was still with the Mirage team at the time. His vision of the turtles was a lot more warlike than the current it seems.

Sad though that the TMNT can't be ninjas anymore. Kind of what made them stand out to begin with. Here you have these geeky, very uncool, uninspiring, non-intimidating turtles. They get hit with the mutagen and BAM! They have muscles, a rat sensei, and ninja powers, making them cooler than the average man. The tables are turned. It's absolutely ridiculous, yet that transformation helped make the TMNT appealing to both the underground type and the mainstream individual. Ridiculous meets the real world. That combined with the family element added to their humanity. And they were cool. TMNT were very cool while at the same time, were weird and out there.

Now they're just out there. But we'll see how it goes. Perhaps Mirage has something up its sleeve.

*Roseangelo* · 11-20-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Putrescent

this issue was if you read it that they 4kids and giant wanted to put war icons and symobls with the turtles.
Now I don't have kids but I sure as hell don't want my kids favorite character promoting a war even if it is a bullsh1t one.

Actually, Mirage said no even with the symbols removed. The shirt that was approved earlier this year I have. There's nothing militaristic about it.

Wait, gimme a sec....

While I don't see any harm in the design Murph posted, I also have no issues with them saying no. I only wish that they used the same "guns" to keep the integrity of the cartoon as they use to say no to a t-shirt.

Fledermaus · 11-20-2007, 12:18 AM

But the cartoon made no political statements. There's a big difference between humiliating a franchise and associating it with the GOP. Never forget 2k3 eps like "The Golden Puck" "Sons of the Silent Age" and "H.A.T.E." and the Mirage comics written that inspired them.

*Roseangelo* · 11-20-2007, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fledermaus

But the cartoon made no political statements. There's a big difference between humiliating a franchise and associating it with the GOP. Never forget 2k3 eps like "The Golden Puck" "Sons of the Silent Age" and "H.A.T.E." and that Mirage comics written that inspired them.

Do you see a political statement in my shirt? I don't.

But my point really wasn't based in politics. I meant Mirage was willing to let Overload happen, a horrible idea in EVERY regard that accomplishes nothing. And now it seems like what we'll be getting isn't a whole lot better. Why can't they stand up and say no to that stuff?

Fledermaus · 11-20-2007, 12:30 AM

My point is that Mirage would probably rather see the TMNT in tutus than associated even slightly (in ways that most young people in the 21st century would not) with certain political regimes.

It's one thing to support a STUPID idea. It's another to support an idea that is MORALLY WRONG.

...

...

...

Note the irony in my post, Rose, and realize that we in fact have very little to fight over.

JaffleMan · 11-20-2007, 01:49 AM

I commend Mirage for sticking it through, the fact that JC penny tried to use bully tactics and threats to get what they wanted is disgusting, irregardless of whether the shirts were making a political statement or not.

Nobody should ever be forced into doing something that they are strongly against.

Fledermaus · 11-20-2007, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaffleMan

I commend Mirage for sticking it through, the fact that JC penny tried to use bully tactics and threats to get what they wanted is disgusting, irregardless of whether the shirts were making a political statement or not.

JC Penny, Wal Mart, Target -- most conglomerates willing to use bully tactics. Just that JC Penny's appearance and prices make it appear to be more upscale than Target and likewise Target to Wal Mart. And yet how else will we get our clothing unless we take more time off of work and school to weave our own clothing out of hemp and ramie? Or start running around nude?

We live in a cruel, disgusting, far-from-perfect world.

JaffleMan · 11-20-2007, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fledermaus

Or start running around nude?

hmmmmmmm....

Since that's not a feasible option I'll be still be buying half of my clothes from the conglomerates as it's affordable.

It's almost irony knowing that the processes that these companies go through to make the clothes cheap for the consumer are also the same processes that I'm morally opposed to.

But such is life......

*VaughnMichael* · 11-20-2007, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Actually, Mirage said no even with the symbols removed. The shirt that was approved earlier this year I have. There's nothing militaristic about it.

Wait, gimme a sec....

While I don't see any harm in the design Murph posted, I also have no issues with them saying no. I only wish that they used the same "guns" to keep the integrity of the cartoon as they use to say no to a t-shirt.

Oh well I have to be honest I own a camo shirt myself but because I like whats on it.
But I wouldn't buy that turtles shirt anyway I've not been impressed with a single shirt from the movie.

11-19-2007, 06:34 PM	#1
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,300	JC Penny to stop carrying TMNT apparel http://the-5th-turtle.blogspot.com/s...el/JC%20Penney I just read this blurb on Murph's blog about a fight with JC Penny as well as some of the clothing companies over camo prints. Comments? I myself don't see the huge deal, but then I'm not a Mirage staffer and I am a military brat. I can understand though if Mirage says "nay." then that should be enough, but I wonder what the hubbub over TMNT on camo prints is. Oh well. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

11-19-2007, 08:08 PM	#4
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,119	I've been trying to figure out where I stand on this. I think not allowing camo might be more of a political statement than allowing camo. Because yeah, the reason I would buy anything with camo would be simply because I like the colors (and when your favorite color is green, it fits right in). __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com

11-19-2007, 10:10 PM	#8
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,300	I do applaud Mirage for keeping politics to a minimum (save the letters pages) cause that's a sure fire way to alienate half of your fan-base. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

11-19-2007, 11:40 PM	#12
Fledermaus Mad Scientist Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,115	Camo can represent so many political backgrounds. Obviously it can represent the GOP, given that most military folks will lean that way in their beliefs. It can also be associated with militaristic regimes in other parts of the world, or even the protesting ex-soldier (Vietnam vets from Santa Cruz, anyone?). But camo nowadays is no longer a statement; it's a product -- much like the Che Guevarra/christ face or "free tibet" logos stamped onto everything alternative, most consumers don't give it another thought. It's accepted into the realm of "coolness" that rakes in the dough. Perhaps in the 70's 80's or even 90's if you saw someone wearing that pattern you could rightfully assume that they were politically "active" in one way or another. Nowadays however, when I think of old camouflage patterns I think first of mainstream fashion for the everyman (or woman, if there are rhinestones embedded across the breasts) shopping at Target or Wal Mart. It's something you can buy in shades of pink and blue, as shorts or a tank, or socks, or a scrunchy, or a handbag. I'm not happy that Mirage ended up losing so much money for this, but there's a temporary price to pay for siding with morality over profit. On the bright side, TMNT at its most innovative has always been a kind of underground thing. I think, in that sense, it needs to get back to those underground routes to regain its integrity. A combination of going too far mainstream while losing sight of their earliest supporters, for example, proved disastrous for Airwalk athletic shoes in the late 90's. According to Creative Director Chad Farmer, "The Company began to listen more and more to the sales staff and the product started to get that homogenized, mainstream look ... the number one complaint is, what happened to the cool product?" (Read The Tipping Point if you haven't already. It's very interesting.) Also, regarding the TMNT military figures in the 80's -- I'm sure Kevin Eastman, who wrote that insane bout of Raph/Casey shooting up the town with a bazooka chomping on stogies-- was still with the Mirage team at the time. His vision of the turtles was a lot more warlike than the current it seems. Sad though that the TMNT can't be ninjas anymore. Kind of what made them stand out to begin with. Here you have these geeky, very uncool, uninspiring, non-intimidating turtles. They get hit with the mutagen and BAM! They have muscles, a rat sensei, and ninja powers, making them cooler than the average man. The tables are turned. It's absolutely ridiculous, yet that transformation helped make the TMNT appealing to both the underground type and the mainstream individual. Ridiculous meets the real world. That combined with the family element added to their humanity. And they were cool. TMNT were very cool while at the same time, were weird and out there. Now they're just out there. But we'll see how it goes. Perhaps Mirage has something up its sleeve. __________________ We're calling it a freeway. Eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth, safe, fast. Traffic jams will be a thing of the past. I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night! Soon there will be a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food! Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see! My God... It'll be beautiful. Last edited by Fledermaus; 11-20-2007 at 12:16 AM.

11-20-2007, 12:18 AM	#14
Fledermaus Mad Scientist Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,115	But the cartoon made no political statements. There's a big difference between humiliating a franchise and associating it with the GOP. Never forget 2k3 eps like "The Golden Puck" "Sons of the Silent Age" and "H.A.T.E." and the Mirage comics written that inspired them. __________________ We're calling it a freeway. Eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth, safe, fast. Traffic jams will be a thing of the past. I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night! Soon there will be a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food! Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see! My God... It'll be beautiful.

11-19-2007, 07:02 PM	#2
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,358	I've never seen a single TMNT shirt at Penny's, and I hate camo. But it does suck that Mirage lost money, oh well... stick it to the Man.

11-19-2007, 07:28 PM	#3
Masked Ninja Doodles TMNT for fun Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: sploshin' through some sewer... Posts: 2,137	Huh. I don't think of camo as having any political connotations. I mean, the army significance is there, but that's not necessarily tied down to one country (or is it? I guess olive drab could be a cool solid color). And I like camo as a base myself, but I guess it's Mirage's call. That design they show is pretty cool - I'd buy it.

11-19-2007, 08:54 PM	#5
mattmanw54301 Foot Soldier Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 182	What about the military turtles figures that came out in the 80s?!?!?! Weren't those making a political statement?

11-19-2007, 09:58 PM	#6
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,872	^ Haha, very true. There is an old "Sergent Raph" figure from the 80's toyline that you can see on the site. I think Leo had a military outfit in the old toyline too.

11-19-2007, 10:51 PM	#9
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	Its too bad they had to do an all or nothing situation. I'm sure they could have chosen different designs... That's business for you, I guess.

11-19-2007, 11:07 PM	#10
longbowhunter Random Punk Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Deep in the Turtle-Cave Posts: 39	WOW...big props to Laird,Murphy,and the gang at MIRAGE for sticking to their guns. The fact of the matter is,as Murphy stated,its up to MIRAGE to decide what is and is not OK for the TMNT to appear on. The fact that so many different people tried to strongarm them into doing something they clearly didnt want to do is both sad and amazing. Not that I was a frequent customer before,but now I have ZERO desire to ever shop at JC Pennys again. Anybody else who feels the same way should contact their corporate offices and let them now what happens when they piss off the TMNT fanbase.

11-19-2007, 11:37 PM	#11
VaughnMichael I'm Baaaaaaccck! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,833	this issue was if you read it that they 4kids and giant wanted to put war icons and symobls with the turtles. Now I don't have kids but I sure as hell don't want my kids favorite character promoting a war even if it is a bullsh1t one.

11-20-2007, 12:30 AM	#16
Fledermaus Mad Scientist Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,115	My point is that Mirage would probably rather see the TMNT in tutus than associated even slightly (in ways that most young people in the 21st century would not) with certain political regimes. It's one thing to support a STUPID idea. It's another to support an idea that is MORALLY WRONG. ... ... ... Note the irony in my post, Rose, and realize that we in fact have very little to fight over. __________________ We're calling it a freeway. Eight lanes of shimmering cement running from here to Pasadena. Smooth, safe, fast. Traffic jams will be a thing of the past. I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night! Soon there will be a string of gas stations, inexpensive motels, restaurants that serve rapidly prepared food! Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see! My God... It'll be beautiful. Last edited by Fledermaus; 11-20-2007 at 01:51 AM. Reason: to avoid misinterpretation

11-20-2007, 01:49 AM	#17
JaffleMan Stone Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Portarlington, Vic Australia Posts: 761	I commend Mirage for sticking it through, the fact that JC penny tried to use bully tactics and threats to get what they wanted is disgusting, irregardless of whether the shirts were making a political statement or not. Nobody should ever be forced into doing something that they are strongly against.