tmnt and religio-spirituality - Page 2

GreenWillow · 10-22-2002, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heretic888

Wow, GW you noticed the books just like I did, neh?

~Hai, soo desu ne...Perhaps those of us who are interested in transpersonal psych have a natural tendency to turn whatever they are reading sideways?

Gives ya a different perspective.....

Oh, and HT, that's pretty interesting where you are going with your writing-- we seem to be convergng on at least one concept (Should be fun-- since you and I are often so diametrically opposed philosophically-- to see how we each look at this "Evil" thing) Let me know when you get more written, ok? .

~GW

**HorseTechie** · 10-22-2002, 11:09 AM

Sure GW.

(And people think I'm merely contemplating the word of God during Bible Study.

)

GreenWillow · 10-22-2002, 11:26 AM

~Heheh...

~GW

**HorseTechie** · 10-22-2002, 11:29 AM

Yeah.. and from this, comes interesting things like Dogma, The Seventh Sign, The Prophecy, Ghostbusters, etc... so much wicked fun.

*heretic888* · 10-22-2002, 11:56 AM

Donatello, I believe, is probably the most philosophical and idealistic of the brothers (in the postconventional sense, anyway). Personally, although I enjoy the TMNT stories written by others, I dont tend to regard them as protraying the 'authentic' characters unless written by Eastman and/or Laird (that's basically 1-12, 19-21, and 48-62 of volume 1, the Tales of the TMNT series, volume 2 to a lesser degree, and the newly created volume 4). Thus, even on truly intriguing storyarchs such as Twilight of the Rings, I do not usually tend to regard them as expressing the 'real' Mike or the 'real' Don.

Regardless, Donatello is still the most philosophical and idealistic of the four in my opinion. Michelangelo, however, is the most spiritual I believe. By 'spiritual' i am referring more to a state of consciousness and mode of identity-reference, as well as source of personal motivation. In other words, Mike doesnt necessarily have to talk about 'being spiritual' in order to have a large level of spiritual development. It shines through in his words, actions, and thoughts (when the thoughts are actually revealed, that is). He is clearly the most postconventional, selfless, and compassionate of the four. And this all does not seem to come from a system of rules, beliefs, or ideals such as that demonstrated by Leo or Don, but out of Mike's own nature. It's the difference of being 'moral' and 'spiritual' because you have to think about it (Leo and Don) and being 'moral' and 'spiritual' because it is your own spontaneous nature. In Zen, it is called 'sponataneous right action' and sometimes 'mushin' or 'no-mind'.

The near-death experience angle is interesting for Michelangelo. I think he is the one most likely to experience a peak experience as well (due to his high level of development). But, you may want to consider that a peak experience involving Judeo-Christian imagery might not necessarily invovle the mythic-literal interpretation most Christians would give it. Beings and gods experienced in visions are in fact 'archetypes', symbols for one's own very Self. Perhaps you could tie that into the story, that Mike comes to realize that the Christ persona he experiences is a symbol for his own potential. Just a thought...

Seth, Leo's insane fundamentalist son?? My... how.... biblical.

That quote from Romans is interesting, but I still believe Michelangelo would find it exceedingly difficult to simply 'beleive' and 'obey' a mythic figure just because a book in front of him tells him to. An extreme religiosity for Biblical religion would be a regression for Mike's character, nor a progression.....

The four horseman theory is still interesting.... the tmnt battled the four horseman (and won!) in the Archie tmnt.. you might want to use that as source material or inspiration. I beleive each of them supposedly aligned with a horseman: Leo=Death, Don=War, Raph=Pestilince, and Mike=Famine. Then again, i might have that wrong.....

[/quote]

**HorseTechie** · 10-22-2002, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heretic888

The four horseman theory is still interesting.... the tmnt battled the four horseman (and won!) in the Archie tmnt.. you might want to use that as source material or inspiration. I beleive each of them supposedly aligned with a horseman: Leo=Death, Don=War, Raph=Pestilince, and Mike=Famine. Then again, i might have that wrong.....

Heh... I have heard of that one too.. but still have yet to find the issue to read. *sai*

It's a tougher call pairing the TMNT to the four horsemen than the elements or horoscope. I have it figured as Don=Death (who is also Cyborg Don in my fic), Leo=Justice (aka Famine/Pestilence), Raph=War, and Mike=the False Messiah.

*heretic888* · 10-22-2002, 02:29 PM

Mike the Antichrist, eh?? interesting.....

I have tried to align the tmnt to the four elements or different elemental chakra levels, and it doesnt really seem to work. It seems to me that Raph is something of a water/fire hybrid; Leo is a fire/wind hybrid; Don is wind (but open to some elements of earth); and Mike is a fifth elemental (because he seems to include traits from ALL four elements and seems to transcend their 'lower' manifestations [example: negative of earth is stubborness and close-mindedness]). Splinter also seems to be a fifth elemental.

gah, i dunno.....

**HorseTechie** · 10-22-2002, 04:15 PM

*lol* Why not...? Mike is rather charismatic.

Or this... you are a Mikey fan, and then, look at your quote. World domination does seem to be a thing amongst you guys. (FOGU, Mangos, caffeine... )

Though, I was baffled with the pairing of Don to War in Archie, since he's the pacifist. Unless they were going by 'opposites attract' there. But that's the thing... the guys are not exactly the perfect stereotypes that many versions make them out to be.

*heretic888* · 10-23-2002, 11:14 AM

i really dont think the tmnt line up that well to the four horseman. even in four element/zodiac systems the turtles are defined that well, primarily because one of them, Michelangelo, is closest to the fifth element than anything else. Thats the point, i think. The turtles are NOT stereotypes and they are NOT any kind of metaphoric archetype. They are in-depth, unique characters.

GreenWillow · 10-26-2002, 12:11 AM

~Well, no, neither a fictional character, nor any RL person, IS an archetype. An archetype is a thought form that exists in the collective unconscious- something we alll share cross-culturally which is why certain themes recur across all cultures in folklore and myths. But I think that certain characters or people stir our unconscious recognition of those forms. Examples: John F. Kennedy (the Good King--or King Arthur of Camelot), Marilynn Monroe(the innocent seductress). The Beatles, the four core StarTrek characters were both quaternities, and in the case of Kirk, Spock, Bones and Scotty their elemental aspects were obvious. Superman is another King Arthur image--representing the status quo, while Spiderman was a misunderstood Anti-Hero, and arrived on the scene at the birth of the 60's, (and the fall of "Camelot") heralding a cultural revolution.
And while I also really like Ken Wilbur, his analysis of psychospiritual growth is but one of many systems, and like all of them, purely theoretical. These are models to work from to help us understand our interior landscape, but just like the the lines delineating different nations on a map, they don't really exist. It's just a tool for communicating ideas.
Have you studied the Enneagram, Heretic? I actually find that system more useful than many because the types dovetail so sweetly into the DSM IV, you can actually use it as a diagnostic tool.
I'm thinking Raph is an Eight point, Leo a Three (or a One, haven't really decided), Mike a perfect Seven, and Donatello a Five..... No ranking in terms of spiritual development here-- each has their own challenges and virtues.

~GW (as everyone else mutters, "what the hell is she talking about...?")

**HorseTechie** · 10-26-2002, 10:29 AM

Yeah... all the more reason why I'm going with a Lord of the Rings theme for Higure.

GreenWillow · 10-26-2002, 11:32 AM

~Because of the heavy archetypal content?
I read somewhere that the Great Evil --Sauron and his minions -- was largely based on Hitler and the rising power of the Nazi Party.
Today we get our Dark Lords out the Middle East. From the purely symbolic standpoint-- (and maybe specifically for North America and Northern and Western Europe) these guys all have the same function:
The Shredder
Darth Vader
Adolf Hitler
Osama Bin Ladin
Lex Luthor
Satan
Saddham Hussein
Sauron
(My own Alexander Skylord

)
The Boogie Man.....

~GW... (apologies to anyone of Middle Eastern descent or nationality-- I'm speaking from a Western culture perspective, not judging anyones' actual politics)

**HorseTechie** · 10-26-2002, 12:49 PM

(Oo.. you forgot Megatron too ;p )

True... though, I really wasn't saying that Mike to be like the False Messiah equals him as being an evil Anti-Christ in that sense. I was thinking more along the lines of the disguised crusader, who strikes silently and reruits many without them not even knowing it. Like how the entertainment industry today is making many think it's cool for teenagers to submit to sex, violence, and drugs... subliminal messages. But of course, then the biggest political debate starts all over again on who's standard of morals the country should best take after.

But relax... I wasn't going to make him that kind of malevoilent spirit. Just saying it usually takes the charisma and appeal he has to make an effective evil lord (cause the ones that act like outright SOB's get knocked off quicker)

GreenWillow · 10-26-2002, 01:34 PM

~Ohh--like an accidental helper of the Dark Side? Remember that one pic at the end of the Vol 2 run, with Mike wearing a gold chain and looking like some entertainment mogul-- big producer or something... those pics were supposed to be like sneak peeks into a (possible?) future. Media mogul leading the innocent children astray...heh
I was thinking about them when someone here--Karpo I think-- mentioned that he couldn't imagine the TMNT fighting with Splinter and of course there is that one pic of a very defeated (dead???) Splinter and a bloodied Turtle standing in front of him....

~GW

**HorseTechie** · 10-26-2002, 03:31 PM

YES!

Or something like that. But you'll also find the lastest chapters of Sean's Legacy fic going along these devilish lines too. *goes off to plug*

GreenWillow · 10-26-2002, 03:40 PM

~OH oh! I've fallen behind on that since I was trying to read all those others. Cool!
Also will help keep me distracted from what I've decided I HAVE to be doing today which is writing!

Ok, I am writing, but boy, can I find ways to distract myself-- like these dern forums!

~GW...home alone with no kids for a few hours...ahhhhhh.....

*heretic888* · 10-28-2002, 12:45 PM

Quote:

And while I also really like Ken Wilbur, his analysis of psychospiritual growth is but one of many systems, and like all of them, purely theoretical. These are models to work from to help us understand our interior landscape, but just like the the lines delineating different nations on a map, they don't really exist. It's just a tool for communicating ideas.

Perhaps theory, but unlike some other systems, KW's has a whole assload of empirical evidence supporting it!!!

They dont exist in the external, physical sense--- but that is not to say they are imaginary. I find it rather odd that all of creation seems to follow an evolutionary growth pattern that 'doesnt exist'.

Quote:

Have you studied the Enneagram, Heretic? I actually find that system more useful than many because the types dovetail so sweetly into the DSM IV, you can actually use it as a diagnostic tool.
I'm thinking Raph is an Eight point, Leo a Three (or a One, haven't really decided), Mike a perfect Seven, and Donatello a Five.....

No, i havent studied the system you are referring to. Could you clarify it a bit, or direct me to a site or resource that does??? What does a 'perfect seven' and all that mean exactly???? I am intrigued.....

Quote:

No ranking in terms of spiritual development here-- each has their own challenges and virtues.

Well, there IS a ranking in spiritual development. Some people ARE more developed than others. I, for example, am less developed than, say, the Dalai Lama but more developed than a five year old. This is NOT to say that some people are instrinsically better than others, only that some people have realized more of their psychological potential than others and are more 'awake'. All lives have equal worth, though.

Quote:

as everyone else mutters, "what the hell is she talking about...?

heh, welcome to the club, babe.

GreenWillow · 10-28-2002, 07:13 PM

~Well, one of the best references is Mary Palmer's _The_ Enneagram_, but I found a pretty good website here: http://www.lessons4living.com/enneagram.htm

And a simple overview of the individual points here: http://www.lessons4living.com/overview.htm

Click on a number to read the type. What's nice about the Enneagram is that it takes into account ones level of development, so one can be a highly evolved version, or still struggling with very basic issues, in any of the points. It's an ancient system, supposedly originally based upon the Seven Deadly Sins plus two more. It was revived in the past 100 years by a couple of Catholic monks, and G.I. Gurdjieff (with whom I have issues but I still like the system.)

The cool thing about the Enneagram is how it works with the DSM IV. F'rinstance, pathology in a Four- point would show up as depressive or bi-polar disorder. An Eight-point moved to the extreme is an antisocial personality disorder. Yes, I actually use it in my work.
And upon review I will say Leonardo is definitely a One, not a Three. Read the high functioning Seven and see if that isn't our boy Mikey. (At the pathological end of the Seven point scale is Narcissistic PD...)
Cool stuff, neh?

~GW.....Four Point, all the way....

10-29-2002, 12:28 AM

Gnnh, I got a seven point. I can't be that happy... there's too many happy words in that description! *reads down the bottom...*

Adjectives for Low Functioning Sevens

Materialistic
Hyperactive
Impulsive
Excessive
Acts out anxiety
Escapist
Superficial
Rebellious
Fears Depth
More is Better
Seeks Immediate gratification
Runs from here to there

Now those words describe me better. but this thing here in the type descriptions link on that results page I was worrying about.

The Busy, Fun-Loving Type:
Spontaneous, Versitle, Acquisitive, and Scattered
(The Manic-Depressive and Histrionic Personality Disorders)

Amanda (cool test tho GW, there any more of these you know of?)

*Skeletoncrew* · 10-29-2002, 01:44 AM

BTW, this is sort of random...but I was interested to read recently that St. Christopher is said to have had the head of a dog before his conversion to Christianity.

10-22-2002, 11:26 AM	#23
GreenWillow Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Mountains Posts: 425	~Heheh... ~GW __________________ Hugs, kisses, GreenFaerieDust(tm) and a small vial of Belladonna. Life is good.

10-22-2002, 11:56 AM	#25
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	my response to HT again Donatello, I believe, is probably the most philosophical and idealistic of the brothers (in the postconventional sense, anyway). Personally, although I enjoy the TMNT stories written by others, I dont tend to regard them as protraying the 'authentic' characters unless written by Eastman and/or Laird (that's basically 1-12, 19-21, and 48-62 of volume 1, the Tales of the TMNT series, volume 2 to a lesser degree, and the newly created volume 4). Thus, even on truly intriguing storyarchs such as Twilight of the Rings, I do not usually tend to regard them as expressing the 'real' Mike or the 'real' Don. Regardless, Donatello is still the most philosophical and idealistic of the four in my opinion. Michelangelo, however, is the most spiritual I believe. By 'spiritual' i am referring more to a state of consciousness and mode of identity-reference, as well as source of personal motivation. In other words, Mike doesnt necessarily have to talk about 'being spiritual' in order to have a large level of spiritual development. It shines through in his words, actions, and thoughts (when the thoughts are actually revealed, that is). He is clearly the most postconventional, selfless, and compassionate of the four. And this all does not seem to come from a system of rules, beliefs, or ideals such as that demonstrated by Leo or Don, but out of Mike's own nature. It's the difference of being 'moral' and 'spiritual' because you have to think about it (Leo and Don) and being 'moral' and 'spiritual' because it is your own spontaneous nature. In Zen, it is called 'sponataneous right action' and sometimes 'mushin' or 'no-mind'. The near-death experience angle is interesting for Michelangelo. I think he is the one most likely to experience a peak experience as well (due to his high level of development). But, you may want to consider that a peak experience involving Judeo-Christian imagery might not necessarily invovle the mythic-literal interpretation most Christians would give it. Beings and gods experienced in visions are in fact 'archetypes', symbols for one's own very Self. Perhaps you could tie that into the story, that Mike comes to realize that the Christ persona he experiences is a symbol for his own potential. Just a thought... Seth, Leo's insane fundamentalist son?? My... how.... biblical. That quote from Romans is interesting, but I still believe Michelangelo would find it exceedingly difficult to simply 'beleive' and 'obey' a mythic figure just because a book in front of him tells him to. An extreme religiosity for Biblical religion would be a regression for Mike's character, nor a progression..... The four horseman theory is still interesting.... the tmnt battled the four horseman (and won!) in the Archie tmnt.. you might want to use that as source material or inspiration. I beleive each of them supposedly aligned with a horseman: Leo=Death, Don=War, Raph=Pestilince, and Mike=Famine. Then again, i might have that wrong..... [/quote] __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

10-22-2002, 02:29 PM	#27
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	eh? Mike the Antichrist, eh?? interesting..... I have tried to align the tmnt to the four elements or different elemental chakra levels, and it doesnt really seem to work. It seems to me that Raph is something of a water/fire hybrid; Leo is a fire/wind hybrid; Don is wind (but open to some elements of earth); and Mike is a fifth elemental (because he seems to include traits from ALL four elements and seems to transcend their 'lower' manifestations [example: negative of earth is stubborness and close-mindedness]). Splinter also seems to be a fifth elemental. gah, i dunno..... __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

10-23-2002, 11:14 AM	#29
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmm i really dont think the tmnt line up that well to the four horseman. even in four element/zodiac systems the turtles are defined that well, primarily because one of them, Michelangelo, is closest to the fifth element than anything else. Thats the point, i think. The turtles are NOT stereotypes and they are NOT any kind of metaphoric archetype. They are in-depth, unique characters. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

10-26-2002, 12:11 AM	#30
GreenWillow Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Mountains Posts: 425	~Well, no, neither a fictional character, nor any RL person, IS an archetype. An archetype is a thought form that exists in the collective unconscious- something we alll share cross-culturally which is why certain themes recur across all cultures in folklore and myths. But I think that certain characters or people stir our unconscious recognition of those forms. Examples: John F. Kennedy (the Good King--or King Arthur of Camelot), Marilynn Monroe(the innocent seductress). The Beatles, the four core StarTrek characters were both quaternities, and in the case of Kirk, Spock, Bones and Scotty their elemental aspects were obvious. Superman is another King Arthur image--representing the status quo, while Spiderman was a misunderstood Anti-Hero, and arrived on the scene at the birth of the 60's, (and the fall of "Camelot") heralding a cultural revolution. And while I also really like Ken Wilbur, his analysis of psychospiritual growth is but one of many systems, and like all of them, purely theoretical. These are models to work from to help us understand our interior landscape, but just like the the lines delineating different nations on a map, they don't really exist. It's just a tool for communicating ideas. Have you studied the Enneagram, Heretic? I actually find that system more useful than many because the types dovetail so sweetly into the DSM IV, you can actually use it as a diagnostic tool. I'm thinking Raph is an Eight point, Leo a Three (or a One, haven't really decided), Mike a perfect Seven, and Donatello a Five..... No ranking in terms of spiritual development here-- each has their own challenges and virtues. ~GW (as everyone else mutters, "what the hell is she talking about...?") __________________ Hugs, kisses, GreenFaerieDust(tm) and a small vial of Belladonna. Life is good.

10-22-2002, 11:09 AM	#22
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Sure GW. (And people think I'm merely contemplating the word of God during Bible Study. )

10-22-2002, 11:29 AM	#24
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Yeah.. and from this, comes interesting things like Dogma, The Seventh Sign, The Prophecy, Ghostbusters, etc... so much wicked fun.

10-22-2002, 04:15 PM	#28
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	lol Why not...? Mike is rather charismatic. Or this... you are a Mikey fan, and then, look at your quote. World domination does seem to be a thing amongst you guys. (FOGU, Mangos, caffeine... ) Though, I was baffled with the pairing of Don to War in Archie, since he's the pacifist. Unless they were going by 'opposites attract' there. But that's the thing... the guys are not exactly the perfect stereotypes that many versions make them out to be.

10-26-2002, 10:29 AM	#31
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Yeah... all the more reason why I'm going with a Lord of the Rings theme for Higure.

10-26-2002, 11:32 AM	#32
GreenWillow Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Mountains Posts: 425	~Because of the heavy archetypal content? I read somewhere that the Great Evil --Sauron and his minions -- was largely based on Hitler and the rising power of the Nazi Party. Today we get our Dark Lords out the Middle East. From the purely symbolic standpoint-- (and maybe specifically for North America and Northern and Western Europe) these guys all have the same function: The Shredder Darth Vader Adolf Hitler Osama Bin Ladin Lex Luthor Satan Saddham Hussein Sauron (My own Alexander Skylord ) The Boogie Man..... ~GW... (apologies to anyone of Middle Eastern descent or nationality-- I'm speaking from a Western culture perspective, not judging anyones' actual politics) __________________ Hugs, kisses, GreenFaerieDust(tm) and a small vial of Belladonna. Life is good.

10-26-2002, 12:49 PM	#33
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	(Oo.. you forgot Megatron too ;p ) True... though, I really wasn't saying that Mike to be like the False Messiah equals him as being an evil Anti-Christ in that sense. I was thinking more along the lines of the disguised crusader, who strikes silently and reruits many without them not even knowing it. Like how the entertainment industry today is making many think it's cool for teenagers to submit to sex, violence, and drugs... subliminal messages. But of course, then the biggest political debate starts all over again on who's standard of morals the country should best take after. But relax... I wasn't going to make him that kind of malevoilent spirit. Just saying it usually takes the charisma and appeal he has to make an effective evil lord (cause the ones that act like outright SOB's get knocked off quicker)

10-26-2002, 01:34 PM	#34
GreenWillow Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Mountains Posts: 425	~Ohh--like an accidental helper of the Dark Side? Remember that one pic at the end of the Vol 2 run, with Mike wearing a gold chain and looking like some entertainment mogul-- big producer or something... those pics were supposed to be like sneak peeks into a (possible?) future. Media mogul leading the innocent children astray...heh I was thinking about them when someone here--Karpo I think-- mentioned that he couldn't imagine the TMNT fighting with Splinter and of course there is that one pic of a very defeated (dead???) Splinter and a bloodied Turtle standing in front of him.... ~GW __________________ Hugs, kisses, GreenFaerieDust(tm) and a small vial of Belladonna. Life is good.

10-26-2002, 03:31 PM	#35
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	YES! Or something like that. But you'll also find the lastest chapters of Sean's Legacy fic going along these devilish lines too. goes off to plug

10-26-2002, 03:40 PM	#36
GreenWillow Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Mountains Posts: 425	~OH oh! I've fallen behind on that since I was trying to read all those others. Cool! Also will help keep me distracted from what I've decided I HAVE to be doing today which is writing! Ok, I am writing, but boy, can I find ways to distract myself-- like these dern forums! ~GW...home alone with no kids for a few hours...ahhhhhh..... __________________ Hugs, kisses, GreenFaerieDust(tm) and a small vial of Belladonna. Life is good.

10-28-2002, 07:13 PM	#38
GreenWillow Hench Mutant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Mountains Posts: 425	~Well, one of the best references is Mary Palmer's _The_ Enneagram_, but I found a pretty good website here: http://www.lessons4living.com/enneagram.htm And a simple overview of the individual points here: http://www.lessons4living.com/overview.htm Click on a number to read the type. What's nice about the Enneagram is that it takes into account ones level of development, so one can be a highly evolved version, or still struggling with very basic issues, in any of the points. It's an ancient system, supposedly originally based upon the Seven Deadly Sins plus two more. It was revived in the past 100 years by a couple of Catholic monks, and G.I. Gurdjieff (with whom I have issues but I still like the system.) The cool thing about the Enneagram is how it works with the DSM IV. F'rinstance, pathology in a Four- point would show up as depressive or bi-polar disorder. An Eight-point moved to the extreme is an antisocial personality disorder. Yes, I actually use it in my work. And upon review I will say Leonardo is definitely a One, not a Three. Read the high functioning Seven and see if that isn't our boy Mikey. (At the pathological end of the Seven point scale is Narcissistic PD...) Cool stuff, neh? ~GW.....Four Point, all the way.... __________________ Hugs, kisses, GreenFaerieDust(tm) and a small vial of Belladonna. Life is good.

10-29-2002, 12:28 AM	#39
Anonymous Guest Posts: n/a	Gnnh, I got a seven point. I can't be that happy... there's too many happy words in that description! reads down the bottom... Adjectives for Low Functioning Sevens Materialistic Hyperactive Impulsive Excessive Acts out anxiety Escapist Superficial Rebellious Fears Depth More is Better Seeks Immediate gratification Runs from here to there Now those words describe me better. but this thing here in the type descriptions link on that results page I was worrying about. The Busy, Fun-Loving Type: Spontaneous, Versitle, Acquisitive, and Scattered (The Manic-Depressive and Histrionic Personality Disorders) Amanda (cool test tho GW, there any more of these you know of?)

10-29-2002, 01:44 AM	#40
Skeletoncrew Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Bearing in on your spicy brains Posts: 3,275	BTW, this is sort of random...but I was interested to read recently that St. Christopher is said to have had the head of a dog before his conversion to Christianity. __________________ Adult TMNT fan art and fiction contest Now accepting entries!