TMNT rogues gallery expansion

[TristanHuwJones]

All I'm going to say about Hun is this: the Mirage Hun is no different to the Copperhead character he was originally pitched as for this story. The only difference is the slight physical variation and the fact that he leads the Purple Dragons instead of the Pit Vipers. His place in the story that I hope will unfold is exactly the same.

Regarding Cody Jones: I think there are better things one could do with the Jones lineage. Although I think a character like Sho K'anabo could fit into the Mirage books quite easily, same with the Street Phantoms and Torbin Zixx. Of course, there are probably better things you could do than make those characters work too...

[Cipher]

On "new characters vs new versions of characters":

I can't really say I have a preference. But if you're going to use a character very similar to a pre-existing one from a different version, I say you might as well go for an adaption. The end result should be the same, but it gets the cool homage factor as well.

Let's say you want an issue to have a spooky alien monster which plays itself dangerously close to Sh'Okanabo. It's easier to get excited about a new version of Sh'Okanabo than what might be a one-off monster who fades into obscurity.

Likewise, if the cartoon had an episode about a supervillain who could move through concrete, I think we'd all say "What the hell? Why didn't they just use Complete Carnage? It would be awesome to see him in the cartoon."

There's just a certain kick people get from seeing an existing character put into a new situation or shown in a new light, and there's nothing wrong with catering to that.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

You think Mirage should tie into the Fast Forward stuff? F*** no.

So are you saying Shadow never had any kids or grandkids? The Mirage Cody Jones doesn't have to be anything like the cartoon one, just showing that the Casey Jones family continues.

It would also be nice to see if old Leo etc. still keep in touch with April/Casey's children/grandchildren.

[Dragon Turtle]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Honestly, probably Cudley. Renet has never really been established as someone that hops across dimensions, but rather just different points in time.

Yeah, I much more comfortable with dimension hoping then time travel, far fewer continuity headaches.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It's just the idea of, actually creating a Mirage version of Bebop and Rocksteady and shoe-horning them into things... (arbitrarily, just out of some kind of nostalgia for the old cartoon by TPTB) that would make me think about burning my collection.

I think it might be a bit much to say that introducing certain characters into the books would be "shoe-horning" them in, ultimately the decision to bring in any external preexisting character would be Peter Laird's, who has never really made any arbitrary decisions to placate cartoon fans. Hun's (and possibly Bishop) introduction is less about making fans of the 2k3 toon happy, but more about telling an interesting story that fits into the Mirage universe, with a character he likes.

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

All I'm going to say about Hun is this: the Mirage Hun is no different to the Copperhead character he was originally pitched as for this story. The only difference is the slight physical variation and the fact that he leads the Purple Dragons instead of the Pit Vipers. His place in the story that I hope will unfold is exactly the same.

The Mirage universe needed a character like Hun (not necessarily Hun himself), someone to put a face on the criminal underworld, a character that could be used to advance Casey Jones's character, and you even have that slight parody aspect with Dare Devil, Hun always reminded me of Kingpin.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

So are you saying Shadow never had any kids or grandkids?

No. I'm saying that in scribing the future of the TMNT characters, whatever 4Kids/Fast Forward showed shouldn't be so much as be given even a momentary passing consideration.

It's a spinoff. For little kids. To sell toys.

Looking to spinoff fluff for children to try and mine stuff into the core Mirage material just seems pretty creatively bankrupt in principle (and I'm not talking about potential crossover stuff, like Tristan's Bebop & Rocksteady pitch... which I certainly wouldn't love to see, but could tolerate and maybe have a bit of fun with)... or at least that TPTB at Mirage have run out of ideas.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Looking to spinoff fluff for children to try and mine stuff into the core Mirage material just seems pretty creatively bankrupt in principle (and I'm not talking about potential crossover stuff, like Tristan's Bebop & Rocksteady pitch... which I certainly wouldn't love to see, but could tolerate and maybe have a bit of fun with)... or at least that TPTB at Mirage have run out of ideas.

How did you feel, pray tell, about the introduction of the Battle Nexus in Volume 4?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Cipher

How did you feel, pray tell, about the introduction of the Battle Nexus in Volume 4?

Since that's a story in progress it's difficult to judge, isn't it?

[Lord Nightwalker]

With Ninja Turtles, all most anything can, and if written well, will work.
If the tone of the subject matter and Good charachterization are in play, correctly, The impossible is possible.
Just leave the "over the top" campy elements at the front door, I hate the "Jack Ass" mentality of comedy.
Tmnt... Heavy Action adventure horror Scifi Martial Arts Drama.
With a smidgeon of comedy.
*smiles*

*No Soap Opera crap allowed eighter....*

That said, I'm realy looking forward to reading the up coming issues of Tales and TMNT V.4 Looks like some realy cool stuff is heading our way.

[Dragon Turtle]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No. I'm saying that in scribing the future of the TMNT characters, whatever 4Kids/Fast Forward showed shouldn't be so much as be given even a momentary passing consideration.

It's a spinoff. For little kids. To sell toys.

Looking to spinoff fluff for children to try and mine stuff into the core Mirage material just seems pretty creatively bankrupt in principle (and I'm not talking about potential crossover stuff, like Tristan's Bebop & Rocksteady pitch... which I certainly wouldn't love to see, but could tolerate and maybe have a bit of fun with)... or at least that TPTB at Mirage have run out of ideas.

Not that I'm advocating introducing more and more elements of the cartoon series into the Mirage comics, but in the case of the 2k3 cartoon in particular, Peter Laird had alot of creative input in the series, both in direction and design, so it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary for Laird to want to use some of the ideas he had worked on for the show in the Mirage comics, the Battle Nexus for example being one of them.

As for Fast Forward, I actually wouldn't mind if the Dark Turtles showed up as a sort of darker mirror image of the turtles, they may actually work better then Slash at representing the dark side of each individual turtle.

Dark Leo could represent Leo's obsession at perfecting his skills taken to extremes, a sort of Akuma to Leo's Ryu (Street Fighter reference).

Dark Don could be a "Faust" type mad scientist with no morals or ethics, twisting science for his own curiosity.

Dark Mike could be a Heath Ledger/Dark Knight Joker-esque psychopath.

Dark Raph could possibly be an out of control Doomsday/Hulk engine of destruction.

They could probably come from a parallel dimension, like the Earth-2 Crime Syndicate of Amerika.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Dragon Turtle

Not that I'm advocating introducing more and more elements of the cartoon series into the Mirage comics, but in the case of the 2k3 cartoon in particular, Peter Laird had alot of creative input in the series, both in direction and design, so it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary for Laird to want to use some of the ideas he had worked on for the show in the Mirage comics, the Battle Nexus for example being one of them.

Yeah. I'm not sure the level of Laird's involvement in the creation of the Battle Nexus... if it was pretty high, and the Battle Nexus truly is his baby I have a fairly minimal problem with it pending the story's conclusion (it's not my fault we've only gotten like 2 issues in 3 years). Similarly to why I only have my torch ready for Tristan's Miragizing of Hun... but haven't lit it yet.

As for Fast Forward, I actually wouldn't mind if the Dark Turtles showed up as a sort of darker mirror image of the turtles, they may actually work better then Slash at representing the dark side of each individual turtle.

"Dark Turtles" isn't exactly a Fast Forward-exclusive idea (or an exclusive idea at all... even things like Star Trek have evil, mirror universe-type characters of the leads) so I don't think that'd be a big deal. As long as it's just the idea, and not like the whole shebang is noticeably uprooted and transplanted in Mirage only with peripheral changes... that's just vapid and displays a pretty flimsy deck of creative cards.

They could probably come from a parallel dimension, like the Earth-2 Crime Syndicate of Amerika.

Ah, the Grant Morrison special. A good one. "Earth-2" was actually just the Anti-Matter Universe in that, and actually there's a similar but less-cool "Crime Society of America" on Earth-3 now.

[Coola Yagami]

Andrew brings a good point... The Dark Turtles wouldn't even have to look like the FF versions at all. Hell, those guys hardly even looked like Turtles at all. And the fact that Sh'Okanabo made them would probably be taken out. Either that or make a Slash, that most likely wouldn't have to be called Slash either.

[Ninjafromanotherseries]

Originally Posted by Dragon Turtle

Dark Don could be a "Faust" type mad scientist with no morals or ethics, twisting science for his own curiosity.

Just like X-men character Dark Beast.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Andrew brings a good point... The Dark Turtles wouldn't even have to look like the FF versions at all. Hell, those guys hardly even looked like Turtles at all. And the fact that Sh'Okanabo made them would probably be taken out. Either that or make a Slash, that most likely wouldn't have to be called Slash either.

Slash is pretty easy to reimagine. Some new villain in Vol. 4, perhaps a rogue Utrom, had a pet project... using a new mutagen to hyper-evolve an alligator snapping turtle instead of a red-earred slider.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'd really only want them in there if it was some Mirage meet Archie/Old toon kind of thing.

Part of Bebop/Rocksteady's charm was their stupidity, I could never see them fitting in the Mirage universe, even if they were different.

I haven't been following, is Bishop going to appear in Tales?

No. Watch the first two seasons to see more of their cool side.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Slash is pretty easy to reimagine. Some new villain in Vol. 4, perhaps a rogue Utrom, had a pet project... using a new mutagen to hyper-evolve an alligator snapping turtle instead of a red-earred slider.

So why wouldn't this work if you replace 'Slash' with 'Rocksteady and Bebop'?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Cipher

So why wouldn't this work if you replace 'Slash' with 'Rocksteady and Bebop'?

Slash would rock!

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Andrew brings a good point... The Dark Turtles wouldn't even have to look like the FF versions at all. Hell, those guys hardly even looked like Turtles at all. And the fact that Sh'Okanabo made them would probably be taken out. Either that or make a Slash, that most likely wouldn't have to be called Slash either.

Didn't even think about that. THe dark turtles could provide an interesting nemesis for each character. Especially if they didn't share the same personality traits as their counterpart. For instance, just to through the turtles off guard, Dark Leo could have Mikey's Personality but Leo's skills....etc..

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Cipher

So why wouldn't this work if you replace 'Slash' with 'Rocksteady and Bebop'?

Because Bebop and Rocksteady are synonymous with camp and empty-headed childish humor and otherwise the antithesis of the core of the Mirage universe. They're the poster childs for the least-endearing aspects of the Fred Wolf material.

Slash is kind of a niche character, not really well known, and though I don't remember him very well in the cartoon, seemed pretty hardcore even in the Archie Comics.

And I'm not so much suggesting Slash should literally be adapted into Mirage as I am a Slash-like character -- it doesn't even need to be called "Slash." Just a twisted, evil, bloodthirsty killing machine of a Mutant Turtle that could take on even several of the TMNT at once.

[turkishproverb]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

And I'm not so much suggesting Slash should literally be adapted into Mirage as I am a Slash-like character -- it doesn't even need to be called "Slash." Just a twisted, evil, bloodthirsty killing machine of a Mutant Turtle that could take on even several of the TMNT at once.

So...Raph?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

And I'm not so much suggesting Slash should literally be adapted into Mirage as I am a Slash-like character -- it doesn't even need to be called "Slash." Just a twisted, evil, bloodthirsty killing machine of a Mutant Turtle that could take on even several of the TMNT at once.

Originally Posted by turkishproverb

So...Raph?

If you have a parallel universe where Raph is a "twisted, evil, bloodthirsty killing machine."