Steve Murphy on "The Forever War"

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by darthsmozers

You're missing the point.

No, I'm not, I completely understand where you and everyone else are coming from, but the fact is people keep saying and implying that they were promised something, which was never the case.

Yes, it did look like TFW was going to happen. There was so much stuff there indicating this, but my point is that NOTHING was promised, and that there's a difference between promising something and indicating that something would eventually come out.

How can you nitpick the word promise, after a build-up like that, something thats been that "unfinished ending" to a great series, that was already cancelled once?

Because nobody was promised! Like I said before, imagine if he actually had promised it would happen? There'd be reason to get up in arms about it because it was promised, and a promise is something that is sworn to be fulfilled.

Yes, I agree that it's a bitch certain very cool things never eventuated, but some of the responses I've seen to this have just been mystifying. I can understand people being pissed off, but to cry foul about something being promised when it wasn't, and to say that the past X years of fandom have been for nothing (which a number of people -- not necessarily here -- have been saying), seems over the top to me.

There's every possibility that whoever picks up the license to the comics may finish things off. ****, Archie could get the license back, reprint all their classic material and then pick up where Murph left off! I'm not saying it will (certainly not promising anything), but it's a possibility. Just because Mirage can no longer finish the book legally, doesn't mean somebody else can't. It all depends on the license.

Not trying to pick on you but for goodness' sakes, its easy to see how its such a dissapointing turn of events.

I realise that, and as I said, I understand where the disappointment comes from, but I stand by what I've said. If we actually were promised these books, then I would understand why there has been such a vehement backlash, but really this is no different to what happened with NECA.

[Roseangelo]

Tristan, now you're just sounding silly.

[CyberCubed]

Did Murphy ever explain why he couldn't be bothered to get this out?

You know, aside from him constantly saying he lost interest in the TMNT as characters, and taking shots at both Gary Richardson and Peter Laird on his blog.

If Muphy was so fed up with Mirage and TMNT, he should have never "promised" us that he would get out the Forever War. But now that Mirage is closing down, Murphy never has to work on another TMNT project again.

I hope he's happy he left the fans feeling empty inside.

[Archon_Turtle]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Did Murphy ever explain why he couldn't be bothered to get this out?

You know, aside from him constantly saying he lost interest in the TMNT as characters, and taking shots at both Gary Richardson and Peter Laird on his blog.

If Muphy was so fed up with Mirage and TMNT, he should have never "promised" us that he would get out the Forever War. But now that Mirage is closing down, Murphy never has to work on another TMNT project again.

I hope he's happy he left the fans feeling empty inside.

Are you saying you would rather he churn out something he has absolutely NO creative interest in? Cause...you know...that always leads to quality products. Personally, I'd rather use my imagination .

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Archon_Turtle

Are you saying you would rather he churn out something he has absolutely NO creative interest in?

I'd be OK with that over nothing. You guys? Yep. I think most of us would be OK with that.

Seriously, though, I think he'd be lying if he ever said he had no invested interest in the project whatsoever, creative or otherwise.

[Archon_Turtle]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'd be OK with that over nothing. You guys? Yep. I think most of us would be OK with that.

Jerkface.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Seriously, though, I think he'd be lying if he ever said he had no invested interest in the project whatsoever, creative or otherwise.

Without trying to be argumentative, I honestly don't know about that. I mean...I dunno...I talk to the guy all the time (as I'm pretty sure you do as well). Love him to death, like any other of the Mirage gang. But damn if he isn't burnt out...badly. I really just don't think his heart is in it anymore. I think he would rather undergo discount brain surgery than work on that book.

[Lordmylar06]

I really like Mr. Murphy, he's always been very polite and understanding to me. I recently bought something from him on ebay and when he realized that I was a fan of his work he expressed gratitude. He may have been burned out, and he may have lost interest, but he hid it well in the few emails I read. I know Forever War was advertised and hyped quite a bit, and I was dissapointed too when I found out it wasn't going to drop, but I think that we(fanbase in general) give these guys too much grief over trivial shortcomings. They're only HUMAN. This story was highly anticipated by alot of us, but it was NOT dire in any way. Forgive and forget.

[TristanHuwJones]

I would agree with this now, but it might not have been the case back when he first announced it on his blog.

Without trying to be argumentative, I honestly don't know about that. I mean...I dunno...I talk to the guy all the time (as I'm pretty sure you do as well). Love him to death, like any other of the Mirage gang. But damn if he isn't burnt out...badly. I really just don't think his heart is in it anymore. I think he would rather undergo discount brain surgery than work on that book.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't understand. What did Steve have to be upset about? He was promoted at Mirage, I thought.

[Ninjinister]

Well, among other things, I know the state of the environment depressed him something awful...

[Master Splinter]

Originally Posted by The Ninjinister

Well, among other things, I know the state of the environment depressed him something awful...

I know everyone is a little busy bickering about false promises and the technicality of a promise... I am just wondering if someone can fill me in on the timeline of events here???? I asked a couple pages back but nobody seemed to respond... Show some knowledge and educate someone who is very interested in the "Forever War" but really has no idea about it at all...

I admit that I don't really get into the TMNT comics too much, I am more of a cartoon, toy, fan art kinda guy and never had the money to get into the comics and all of the hype of the Forever War has got me intrigued like I missed something incredible and whatnot...

Soooo... let's take a breath for a moment and someone just fill me in on what is going on here... How long has this been promised? What is the actual "Forever War" suppose to be? When was it suppose to come out? Because from what I am picking up here and there is that this has been promised for a long time but is canceled completely now... I just want to know the full story of what this is all about etc... Or do I just not have enough street cred to get some answers from what appears to me to be some of the most knowledgeable TMNT fans out there... Help me learn, puh puh purrty please...

-mm

[Master Splinter]

Originally Posted by darthsmozers

You're missing the point.

Look at it from the order of events. Back in the early 2000s, a couple of issues of either TMNT or Tales mentioned in the letters columns that the project was being discussed, and eventually was set to be published in the next year or two. That got everyone excited.

Then while still waiting year after year, SM posted some backstory, early cover art, and early interior pencils in his blog. While not an official solicit from Mirage, it obviously built everyone's excitement further.

SM then posted new/unseen cover art concepts on his blog. Even more excitement, as evidence that some ideas were being played around with between he and the artist. More excitement!

The Forever War gets labeled as an upcoming 25th Anniversary Project. Looking good! Excitement!

Its mentioned the number of issues wasn't final, but that indicated the project was still being retooled. Not much of an advance, but still excitement to know it was being worked on.

Future Tense is officially promoted with banner ads and solicits, with it meant to be a lead-in to The Forever War. Here, to answer your question if anyone's support of Mirage was only for TFW, I will say no, BUT support for Future Tense was, in part, to directly show support for TFW, with the thought that "if this sells well, maybe something good will happen", in this case that something good being something that was dangled like a carrot on a string for years, not on blind faith but on the words of Mirage, that it was coming. Future Tense = Excitement and anticipation for TFW, no doubt!

SM releases TFW promo prints at a comic con and online - a direct promotion for the project.

More talk of retooling the script and issue count = still being worked on = hope, excitement, anticipation.

And then..... it all falls flat. Nothing.

How can you nitpick the word promise, after a build-up like that, something thats been that "unfinished ending" to a great series, that was already cancelled once?

Yes, those other elements of the franchise mean something. But its something like this that not only causes a bad taste in the mouth, but a bit of a smack in the face.

Not trying to pick on you but for goodness' sakes, its easy to see how its such a dissapointing turn of events.

Sorry for double posting but I didn't see this post on page 5... This helps answer a few of my questions...

So here is my other question... Does anyone know what the story was suppose to be?

THANKS!!!

Oh and if anyone has anything to include in the timeline of events to lead up to this cancellation let me know... This is interesting stuff...

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Archon_Turtle

Are you saying you would rather he churn out something he has absolutely NO creative interest in? Cause...you know...that always leads to quality products. Personally, I'd rather use my imagination .

I would. For me, one more go-around with the Archie TMNT would be worth it regardless of story quality. Plus, I figured Murphy knew those characters so well that even if he was just going through the motions it would have been a solid effort out of sheer "muscle memory."

[DrSpengler]

Going by a lot of Murphy's older blog posts, he apparently suffers from very serious, if possibly clinical levels of debilitating depression. I don't know the specifics, it's his personal life, none of my business.

My point is, with that sort of health issue in mind, I can easily see him getting very fed up or burned out or sick of or WHATEVER, regarding the Turtles and not wanting to do them anymore.

I've dealt with people who have issues with clinical depression (my mother was a very serious level of bipolar). It may not seem possible to us, but for people with those sorts of issues it can happen and at the drop of a hat without any notice or minimal build-up.


So far as "promises" go, I suppose I'd only consider it a true blue "promise" if The Forever War had been properly solicited by Mirage or Diamond or what have you. If it never got that far, then it wasn't a promise at least on a professional level.

But yeah, I am VERY bummed out that we won't be getting the book. It seems that of all the TMNT media, the comics have been getting the shaft via this deal. I know that there are possibilities on the horizon if Viacom licenses the franchise out to Dark Horse or IDW or whoever, but with nothing concrete to ease our sorrows, "future possibilities" don't really satisfy.

I mean, Forever War was a "future possibility" for five years and look what happened...

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Archon_Turtle

Are you saying you would rather he churn out something he has absolutely NO creative interest in? Cause...you know...that always leads to quality products. Personally, I'd rather use my imagination .

Someone else could write it. The scripts are there let someone else study the source material and finish it. Sometimes bringing in fresh blood is not only a good way to advance the story but it helps you get out of creative blocks. There's at least 10 turtles fans who are capable of writing a good story and already know all the back story. Not saying it should just be a fan but you get what I mean.

[darthsmozers]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Going by a lot of Murphy's older blog posts, he apparently suffers from very serious, if possibly clinical levels of debilitating depression. I don't know the specifics, it's his personal life, none of my business.

My point is, with that sort of health issue in mind, I can easily see him getting very fed up or burned out or sick of or WHATEVER, regarding the Turtles and not wanting to do them anymore.

I've dealt with people who have issues with clinical depression (my mother was a very serious level of bipolar). It may not seem possible to us, but for people with those sorts of issues it can happen and at the drop of a hat without any notice or minimal build-up.


So far as "promises" go, I suppose I'd only consider it a true blue "promise" if The Forever War had been properly solicited by Mirage or Diamond or what have you. If it never got that far, then it wasn't a promise at least on a professional level.

But yeah, I am VERY bummed out that we won't be getting the book. It seems that of all the TMNT media, the comics have been getting the shaft via this deal. I know that there are possibilities on the horizon if Viacom licenses the franchise out to Dark Horse or IDW or whoever, but with nothing concrete to ease our sorrows, "future possibilities" don't really satisfy.

I mean, Forever War was a "future possibility" for five years and look what happened...

This is very true, and good of you to point out (re: the depression). And I hope no opinions here turn into something against the man himself. I don't think thats the case. I think its general frustration overall.

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

Because nobody was promised! Like I said before, imagine if he actually had promised it would happen? There'd be reason to get up in arms about it because it was promised, and a promise is something that is sworn to be fulfilled.

Tristan, i hear what youre saying. But while it may not have been spelled out as "I, Steve Murphy, promise fans that they will get the Forever War", the number of times it was said by the staff that it was coming, it received the green light, it was on the schedule, it would be part of the anniversary, it was being worked on, and 'hey here's a lead-in book purposely put together as a prelude to the new story', that's promise enough. It may have not reached the solicit stage, but it was promise enough. the splitting of hairs over the word promise is really not much to stand on. its a sad excuse. otherwise anyone in entertainement can talk about upcoming movies, books, games, projects, etc, and if something goes wrong say "well, i never actually said 'i promise' so it doesn't count". you see? poor excuse.

anyway, again, not picking on you or anything. just trying to articulate some things.

in short, it was bad business, it got cancelled with hardly any care for the long and drawn out excitement and anticipation we've had, and it just leaves a bad taste. true, lots of factors to consider, personal and otherwise i'm sure, but it was still bad business and done poorly.

[darthsmozers]

Originally Posted by missourimobile

Sorry for double posting but I didn't see this post on page 5... This helps answer a few of my questions...

So here is my other question... Does anyone know what the story was suppose to be?

THANKS!!!

Oh and if anyone has anything to include in the timeline of events to lead up to this cancellation let me know... This is interesting stuff...

well, nothing was ever really produced other than some mockups and rough drafts. we could have assumed the future turtles, and heroes and villains throughout the time line of the archie turtles universe. if youre new to the TMNT archie universe, i definitely suggest reading the series, despite this dissapointing turn of events. still an awesome read.

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by darthsmozers

anyway, again, not picking on you or anything. just trying to articulate some things.

No, I know, I know, and I'm not swiping back at you, what I'm trying to get across is that there are people out there bandying the word around and treating the whole thing like some kind of stolen birth rite. Some of the emails I've got, private messages and responses I saw on the Mirage facebook and twitter were just ridiculous in how unnecessarily down they were because of this... and I'm seeing similar things being said here. This is all I'm saying. I completely understand why people are pissed off, but there is absolutely nothing that can, or will be done about it. Murph has to help with the final handover of everything, and I'm pretty sure that once that's done, he'll be done with the Turtles for good.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

No, I know, I know, and I'm not swiping back at you, what I'm trying to get across is that there are people out there bandying the word around and treating the whole thing like some kind of stolen birth rite. Some of the emails I've got, private messages and responses I saw on the Mirage facebook and twitter were just ridiculous in how unnecessarily down they were because of this... and I'm seeing similar things being said here. This is all I'm saying. I completely understand why people are pissed off, but there is absolutely nothing that can, or will be done about it. Murph has to help with the final handover of everything, and I'm pretty sure that once that's done, he'll be done with the Turtles for good.

I wonder if there is any chance he hands his Forever War story notes onto someone else?

[TristanHuwJones]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

I wonder if there is any chance he hands his Forever War story notes onto someone else?

I don't think it would do any good. Unless we could get a writer that could do it over night, and an artist that could bang the whole thing out before December 15, then it would miss the End-of-Year Deadline.