Was there any reason why Bebop was black as a human?

*CyberCubed* · 11-22-2009, 04:29 PM

It was stated the reason Baxter Stockman was changed into a white guy in the old toon was to avoid making the only black character in TMNT into a villain. Apparently this would have been viewed as racist back in the late 80's.

Yet at the same time, Bebop was black. Granted we only see human Bebop for two episodes, (aside from later Season 3 eps where we see human Bebop/Rocksteady in "Shredderville" and in their hologram disguises in Season 4's opener).

So why change the race of one character (Baxter), yet make another villain black?

*ToTheNines* · 11-22-2009, 04:48 PM

I guess they just wanted to make that gang more diverse. I tend not to read into race too much, I really can not stand baseless racial sensitivity.

*Cipher* · 11-22-2009, 04:58 PM

I doubt Baxter's white-washing had anything to do with racial sensitivity. It was just the design they made for the character. I think it's been discussed before that it was really done on a whim.

Racial sensitivity was definitely the last thing the early Fred Wolf cartoon had on its mind. Check every single time they deal with Japan on that show.

*ToTheNines* · 11-22-2009, 05:40 PM

Lol, I was just thinking the same thing while watching "Beware Lotus Blossom" today, that asian lady selling flowers had a terrible accent.

*XERO* · 11-22-2009, 06:43 PM

Because we would've had Spike Lee directing an episode.

Sword Slicin' Leo · 11-22-2009, 06:52 PM

I guess for the same reason Rocksteady was white

*XERO* · 11-22-2009, 08:03 PM

You know, many people tend to forget that Shredder was voiced by Uncle Phil.

Cowabunga Kiefer · 11-22-2009, 08:54 PM

My guess is that they also wanted to be diverse about it. Maybe they were just being realistic. I mean, for Baxter Stockman, for me it's hard to imagine a crazy black guy being bossed around by Shredder and eventually being turned into a fly...and having that voice. Ha ha, this conversation reminds me a quote from Mean Girls. "Oh my God Karen, you can't just go around asking people why they are white!"

*gobo* · 11-22-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Was there any reason why Bebop was black as a human?

Just racial diversity... How long was it before we saw another black person in that series past Season 1?

*XERO* · 11-22-2009, 10:06 PM

He should've been voiced by Mr. T.

*plastroncafe* · 11-22-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

It was stated the reason Baxter Stockman was changed into a white guy in the old toon was to avoid making the only black character in TMNT into a villain. Apparently this would have been viewed as racist back in the late 80's.

Yet at the same time, Bebop was black. Granted we only see human Bebop for two episodes, (aside from later Season 3 eps where we see human Bebop/Rocksteady in "Shredderville" and in their hologram disguises in Season 4's opener).

So why change the race of one character (Baxter), yet make another villain black?

While I've no proof of this what so ever, but I always just chalked up the white washing of Stockman to be a reference to "Seth Brundle" from The Fly.

*Andrew NDB* · 11-23-2009, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cipher Classic

I doubt Baxter's white-washing had anything to do with racial sensitivity.

It's not open to speculation -- it's fact.

*Cipher* · 11-23-2009, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It's not open to speculation -- it's fact.

That it did or didn't?

*Andrew NDB* · 11-23-2009, 02:51 AM

The former. Unless Laird himself is a liar.

*ToTheNines* · 11-23-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobo

How long was it before we saw another black person in that series past Season 1?

There were a bunch of pedestrians with speaking roles that were black, then Carter, and.... Wow, I guess that's it.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 11-23-2009, 07:45 AM

There are many films, especially from the late 1980's and early 1990's, like that: White police officer and black police officer work together as a team using the same police car. The same with the bad guys.

I think Baxter Stockman was made white for the 1987 cartoon to let him look like the stereotype mad scientist in popular culture.

*odupianist* · 11-23-2009, 08:01 AM

He was actually supposed to be white, but the artists couldn't see through their hoods and picked the wrong color by mistake.

*XERO* · 11-23-2009, 11:18 AM

White Baxter became a fly.

If he was black, he would've been a cockroach or something.

TurtleGuy · 11-23-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benvenuto

White Baxter became a fly.

If he was black, he would've been a cockroach or something.

No, you're thinking of Hispanic Baxter...

Wow, that was in bad taste. I'll show myself out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

There were a bunch of pedestrians with speaking roles that were black, then Carter, and.... Wow, I guess that's it

There was also that one professor dude who invented the protein computer in the episode "Mobster from Dimension X".

~~Dan~~ · 11-23-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

It was stated the reason Baxter Stockman was changed into a white guy in the old toon was to avoid making the only black character in TMNT into a villain. Apparently this would have been viewed as racist back in the late 80's.

Yet at the same time, Bebop was black.

But wasn't Bebop made white later on? And if they didn't want too look racist they could have had a good black guy granted the comics didn't have one. But they could've made one up working at Channel 6.

11-22-2009, 04:29 PM	#1
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,871	Was there any reason why Bebop was black as a human? It was stated the reason Baxter Stockman was changed into a white guy in the old toon was to avoid making the only black character in TMNT into a villain. Apparently this would have been viewed as racist back in the late 80's. Yet at the same time, Bebop was black. Granted we only see human Bebop for two episodes, (aside from later Season 3 eps where we see human Bebop/Rocksteady in "Shredderville" and in their hologram disguises in Season 4's opener). So why change the race of one character (Baxter), yet make another villain black?

11-22-2009, 06:43 PM	#5
XERO Hybrid Theorist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Alamo City Posts: 8,185	Because we would've had Spike Lee directing an episode. __________________ "Travel at the speed of light... then hit the nitro!"

11-22-2009, 06:52 PM	#6
Sword Slicin' Leo Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: 11th & Bleeker Posts: 763	I guess for the same reason Rocksteady was white __________________ https://www.facebook.com/NinjaTurtle...rs?ref=tn_tnmn

11-22-2009, 08:03 PM	#7
XERO Hybrid Theorist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Alamo City Posts: 8,185	You know, many people tend to forget that Shredder was voiced by Uncle Phil. __________________ "Travel at the speed of light... then hit the nitro!"

11-22-2009, 10:06 PM	#10
XERO Hybrid Theorist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Alamo City Posts: 8,185	He should've been voiced by Mr. T. __________________ "Travel at the speed of light... then hit the nitro!"

11-22-2009, 04:48 PM	#2
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,351	I guess they just wanted to make that gang more diverse. I tend not to read into race too much, I really can not stand baseless racial sensitivity.

11-22-2009, 04:58 PM	#3
Cipher Foot Elite Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,454	I doubt Baxter's white-washing had anything to do with racial sensitivity. It was just the design they made for the character. I think it's been discussed before that it was really done on a whim. Racial sensitivity was definitely the last thing the early Fred Wolf cartoon had on its mind. Check every single time they deal with Japan on that show.

11-22-2009, 05:40 PM	#4
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,351	Lol, I was just thinking the same thing while watching "Beware Lotus Blossom" today, that asian lady selling flowers had a terrible accent.

11-22-2009, 08:54 PM	#8
Cowabunga Kiefer Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Born in Nashville, now I live in NYC. No TMNT sightings yet... Posts: 303	My guess is that they also wanted to be diverse about it. Maybe they were just being realistic. I mean, for Baxter Stockman, for me it's hard to imagine a crazy black guy being bossed around by Shredder and eventually being turned into a fly...and having that voice. Ha ha, this conversation reminds me a quote from Mean Girls. "Oh my God Karen, you can't just go around asking people why they are white!"

11-23-2009, 02:51 AM	#14
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,542	The former. Unless Laird himself is a liar. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

11-23-2009, 07:45 AM	#16
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,481	Films There are many films, especially from the late 1980's and early 1990's, like that: White police officer and black police officer work together as a team using the same police car. The same with the bad guys. I think Baxter Stockman was made white for the 1987 cartoon to let him look like the stereotype mad scientist in popular culture.

11-23-2009, 08:01 AM	#17
odupianist Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,744	He was actually supposed to be white, but the artists couldn't see through their hoods and picked the wrong color by mistake.

11-23-2009, 11:18 AM	#18
XERO Hybrid Theorist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Alamo City Posts: 8,185	White Baxter became a fly. If he was black, he would've been a cockroach or something. __________________ "Travel at the speed of light... then hit the nitro!"