Should I go back and re-watch the original series or... - Page 3

*Powder* · 01-24-2012, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The OT had continuity

And "darker tone" doesnt always mean "good". Frankly, I think the 2003 series taking itself seriously is what makes it inferior. The old 'toon knew how ridiculous the premise of mutant Turtles actually is and had fun with it.

My problem with the show is in a similar vein. They lightened up the Mirage stores that they adapted, but didn't lighten the tone.
That's the fault with the "taking itself too seriously" thing. If you're gonna lighten the stories up, do the same to the mood. Otherwise it feels pretentious. I love 2k3 though, that's just my big complaint.

*ZariusTwo* · 01-24-2012, 06:08 AM

I definatly liked the 4Kids show too, but yeah, trying to make it a kids show while trying to be adult about it is a choice feat that few shows can manage. The 90s were FULL of shows that did that, and only a handful of them were succesful at it.

~~ABrown~~ · 01-24-2012, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald7

The OT is a lot of fun. But that doesn't mean it can't be taken seriously. Comedy is not all about being bright and happy. A lot of the humor in the OT came from the characters having a very snarky and cynical attitude towards society which we can all identify with and speaks a lot more volumes than a cartoon going out of its way to be "dark."

I've just never found the original cartoon to be funny, not in the least. Cheesy? Absolutely, but to me that doesn't mean the same thing as funny. Honestly, between the two cartoons, I would say that the 2003 one was the funnier one. And it was the darker of the two shows.

Herald7 · 01-24-2012, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABrown

I've just never found the original cartoon to be funny, not in the least. Cheesy? Absolutely, but to me that doesn't mean the same thing as funny. Honestly, between the two cartoons, I would say that the 2003 one was the funnier one. And it was the darker of the two shows.

::shrugs:: Different strokes I guess. I didn't dislike 2k3 but I never found it particularly funny. It was far too busy desperately trying to be taken seriously and I just didn't buy it. The OT on the other hand felt skillfully written as far as humor and as far as formulaic writing, which is not a bad thing. Again, many successful shows in history went the formulaic route.

Herald7 · 01-24-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Erm...they DIDNT portray the 80s Turtles incorrectly.

They painted the OT turtles with a broad, lazy stroke of "they're all goofy." The OT was much more nuanced than that. It never would have been popular in the first place if it was anything like what Turtles Forever portrayed. Turtles Forever was shallow writing that you typically find when they try to remake classic movies. What one fan once described to me as the Cliff Notes version and that is not a compliment, lol.

Herald7 · 01-24-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I definatly liked the 4Kids show too, but yeah, trying to make it a kids show while trying to be adult about it is a choice feat that few shows can manage. The 90s were FULL of shows that did that, and only a handful of them were succesful at it.

I think everyone was chasing the success of Batman: The Animated Series and I agree, very few succeeded.

*ZariusTwo* · 01-24-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABrown

Honestly, between the two cartoons, I would say that the 2003 one was the funnier one

Your sense of humour is f*cking awful

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald7

I think everyone was chasing the success of Batman: The Animated Series and I agree, very few succeeded.

Even then, Batman: The Animated Series could be cheesy when it wanted to be. Look at episodes like "Christmas with The Joker" for one. All the best 90s shows could make a face and drop their pants once in a while. The ones that couldnt just vanished after a season or so.

Of course, there were several cartoons that tried to duplicate TMNT's quirky humour and failed as well

Herald7 · 01-24-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Of course, there were several cartoons that tried to duplicate TMNT's quirky humour and failed as well

Oh very true, I remember those and even as a kid I thought, "Um, are they trying to be like the ninja turtles?" Lol. Emphasize trying.

Avatar Yuffie · 01-24-2012, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald7

They painted the OT turtles with a broad, lazy stroke of "they're all goofy." The OT was much more nuanced than that. It never would have been popular in the first place if it was anything like what Turtles Forever portrayed. Turtles Forever was shallow writing that you typically find when they try to remake classic movies. What one fan once described to me as the Cliff Notes version and that is not a compliment, lol.

Agreed. Leo is so OOC am very VERY happy Cam Clarke never voiced him.

*gobo* · 01-24-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald7

They painted the OT turtles with a broad, lazy stroke of "they're all goofy."

They weren't all goofy. I know for a fact that one was Mickey and another was Donald.

Herald7 · 01-24-2012, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobo

They weren't all goofy. I know for a fact that one was Mickey and another was Donald.

......."Too derivative."

twopinacoladas · 01-24-2012, 10:03 PM

I'd watch both if your interested you will likely enjoy the 2k3 series. I found that it was hard to watch through the original toon the first 4 or so seasons were good nostalgia but once I get to far in it seems to repetitive and the episodes all seem to similar but good to watch for nostalgia in any case.

Herald7 · 01-24-2012, 10:13 PM

A lot of it just depends on what you're looking for. One show has a consistent storyline and one show is formulaic and both are valid formats, they're just different.

*Mr._Mutant_Man* · 01-24-2012, 11:24 PM

I've never gotten too far into the newer cartoon. Since there are a lot of similarities to the comics, sometimes I feel it's kind of redundant when watching the major story lines. I haven't seen much past the part where Leonardo is recovering after they flee New York, though.

*Xav* · 01-25-2012, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The OT had continuity

Yeah but only for like half of the seasons nowhere near the extant the 4Kids show did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Your sense of humour is f*cking awful

Oh come on the 4Kids show had it's moments.

*gobo* · 01-25-2012, 08:39 PM

"Nice hats..."

Herald7 · 01-25-2012, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xav

Yeah but only for like half of the seasons nowhere near the extant the 4Kids show did.

I don't see the OT as particularly lacking in continuity. It's just that they tended to focus on individual adventures rather than one large one. It's not like the overall scenario changed every week or something. And I actually think the "individual adventures" format is a bit closer to real life. Things happen to us, and then we move on to the next thing, life goes on.

*Redeemer* · 01-25-2012, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald7

I don't see the OT as particularly lacking in continuity. It's just that they tended to focus on individual adventures rather than one large one. It's not like the overall scenario changed every week or something. And I actually think the "individual adventures" format is a bit closer to real life. Things happen to us, and then we move on to the next thing, life goes on.

Interesting take

But I like a show with continuity but I also like a break from the show. I think the 2k3 show had a nice balance unlike the OT imo

Herald7 · 01-25-2012, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Interesting take

But I like a show with continuity but I also like a break from the show. I think the 2k3 show had a nice balance unlike the OT imo

I thought so.

I agree it has a balance, yes, I just don't think that in itself makes it the better show.

~~Leo656~~ · 01-26-2012, 05:56 AM

The OT had continuity, it just stopped being episodic continuity very early on. After the first two seasons up until the very end, it wasn't necessary to watch episodes in a specific order to follow the show anymore. But every now and then Usagi or Lotus would show up and they'd reference an earlier episode before moving the plot along. It was a looser continuity but it was there. 2K3 is much more tight as far as order of events from episode to episode, season to season. It could be said there was too much going on at once sometimes, though.

I'unno, I always point out how goofy the concept of TMNT is and how fans shouldn't take some things too seriously, but at the same time I don't agree the license is better off when it's flat-out goofy, or when the silliness outweighs everything else. I still love the old show but I find much of its humor very dated and juvenile. Some of the dialog, especially, you can just tell they were like "We have no idea what they should say here so let's have a forced pun or a pizza joke".

I think it might be more personal to me, though. I have too much of a writer's mentality when I watch comedic stuff in general; I think too much, particularly speaking I tune out when there's a supposedly life-or-death scenario going on and everyone's cracking jokes, I'm conditioned to think that no matter how silly the audience finds the scenario or the premise, the characters involved need to play it somewhat straight or the drama falls out completely. I liked how the TMNT would often break the fourth wall, for example, but going back and seeing how much they did it makes it less clever and almost annoying after a while.

I can see where some would conversely find the 2k3 show overly-eager to be taken seriously, but I'm not sure that's exactly it. There was definitely a bit of "this isn't the old show" forced in to get the point across, but there was also a lot of totally random humor as well. The humor isn't as broad as the old show but I definitely laugh a lot just the same.

I think the "over-serious" label is something that got projected onto it over the years because the tone is SO different from the original, but in truth both shows were conceived and pushed towards two different directions from the beginning. The original was a kids' comedy/adventure show with light action elements, and the newer show was a kids' action/adventure series with a sense of humor. Each show's tone was exactly appropriate for what it was designed to be. Which tone you prefer is simply a matter of personal choice.

For me, the action in 2k3 puts it over. As others have said, it was one of the best action cartoons of the last 10+ years. I like my characters to kick ass, so between Justice League, TMNT and He-Man I had a lot to be happy about back in 2k3.

01-24-2012, 06:08 AM	#42
ZariusTwo Overlord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Britain, DINO THUNDER...POWER UP! Posts: 22,494	I definatly liked the 4Kids show too, but yeah, trying to make it a kids show while trying to be adult about it is a choice feat that few shows can manage. The 90s were FULL of shows that did that, and only a handful of them were succesful at it. __________________ Spider-Man: The Rescue Spider-Man: The Galloping Cat Spider-Man: Scarlet Mirror Doctor Who: Child of the Daleks

01-24-2012, 10:03 PM	#52
twopinacoladas Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 717	I'd watch both if your interested you will likely enjoy the 2k3 series. I found that it was hard to watch through the original toon the first 4 or so seasons were good nostalgia but once I get to far in it seems to repetitive and the episodes all seem to similar but good to watch for nostalgia in any case. __________________ www.rj3d.com www.itstimetosplit.com

01-24-2012, 10:13 PM	#53
Herald7 Hench Mutant Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 286	A lot of it just depends on what you're looking for. One show has a consistent storyline and one show is formulaic and both are valid formats, they're just different. __________________ "Leave it to Donatello to have a homing device that fits a snake!"

01-25-2012, 08:39 PM	#56
gobo Wacky Action Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: on Earth Posts: 12,784	"Nice hats..." __________________ Live and let live... or go to hell.

01-24-2012, 11:24 PM	#54
Mr._Mutant_Man Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 2,340	I've never gotten too far into the newer cartoon. Since there are a lot of similarities to the comics, sometimes I feel it's kind of redundant when watching the major story lines. I haven't seen much past the part where Leonardo is recovering after they flee New York, though.

01-26-2012, 05:56 AM	#60
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	The OT had continuity, it just stopped being episodic continuity very early on. After the first two seasons up until the very end, it wasn't necessary to watch episodes in a specific order to follow the show anymore. But every now and then Usagi or Lotus would show up and they'd reference an earlier episode before moving the plot along. It was a looser continuity but it was there. 2K3 is much more tight as far as order of events from episode to episode, season to season. It could be said there was too much going on at once sometimes, though. I'unno, I always point out how goofy the concept of TMNT is and how fans shouldn't take some things too seriously, but at the same time I don't agree the license is better off when it's flat-out goofy, or when the silliness outweighs everything else. I still love the old show but I find much of its humor very dated and juvenile. Some of the dialog, especially, you can just tell they were like "We have no idea what they should say here so let's have a forced pun or a pizza joke". I think it might be more personal to me, though. I have too much of a writer's mentality when I watch comedic stuff in general; I think too much, particularly speaking I tune out when there's a supposedly life-or-death scenario going on and everyone's cracking jokes, I'm conditioned to think that no matter how silly the audience finds the scenario or the premise, the characters involved need to play it somewhat straight or the drama falls out completely. I liked how the TMNT would often break the fourth wall, for example, but going back and seeing how much they did it makes it less clever and almost annoying after a while. I can see where some would conversely find the 2k3 show overly-eager to be taken seriously, but I'm not sure that's exactly it. There was definitely a bit of "this isn't the old show" forced in to get the point across, but there was also a lot of totally random humor as well. The humor isn't as broad as the old show but I definitely laugh a lot just the same. I think the "over-serious" label is something that got projected onto it over the years because the tone is SO different from the original, but in truth both shows were conceived and pushed towards two different directions from the beginning. The original was a kids' comedy/adventure show with light action elements, and the newer show was a kids' action/adventure series with a sense of humor. Each show's tone was exactly appropriate for what it was designed to be. Which tone you prefer is simply a matter of personal choice. For me, the action in 2k3 puts it over. As others have said, it was one of the best action cartoons of the last 10+ years. I like my characters to kick ass, so between Justice League, TMNT and He-Man I had a lot to be happy about back in 2k3.