Peter Laird on IDW TMNT

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by Jester

I am reminded of the old adage, "Money can't buy happiness."

But you probably have a better chance at finding happiness than if you're miserably poor.

I don't know what's going on in Laird's mind when he said that he wished he hadn't created the turtles. He got to make boatloads of money and have famous characters that were loved by tons of kids, and continue to be loved by kids at heart. Most writers/creators can only dream of that. He can throw a big pity party if he wants, but I don't feel sorry for him.

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by Leo656

But I think a big part of it is that deep down, Pete was never as invested in this whole thing as we are, and there's lots of reasons for that, many of which make complete sense.

I think he was very invested! Writing comics, nitpicking the 4kids show scripts... I thought his issue was, as long as he was involved, he was so invested that he couldn't balance the rest of his life.

Interesting reading Eastman's interview. I got the idea that he didn't feel very involved with the Mirage crew like Laird did... I almost got the impression he saw them as mooches! Is this what you guys saw?

[Samhain]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Interesting reading Eastman's interview. I got the idea that he didn't feel very involved with the Mirage crew like Laird did... I almost got the impression he saw them as mooches! Is this what you guys saw?

Yeah, I got that vibe too. Which kinda messed up how I thought all the Mirage dude's acted around one another. Money really does make everything complicated.

[Plasticplayhouse]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

That doesn't sound like love to me, it sounds like sour grapes.

na, i do believe that pete still has love for the turtles. he's just a purist, and thats ok.

[Uki]

Originally Posted by cybercubed

especially since there's probably going to be a plot twist with the reincarnation thing down the road. Its quite possible the turtles may not be yoshi's reincarnated sons after all, and they simply "fine tuned what was learned" via the samples in the mutagen.

I could see a great depression arc for splinter if he realizes they are not his true sons, but then accepts them later on as his new family. It could be brilliant if done right.

like!!!!!!

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by Plasticplayhouse

na, i do believe that pete still has love for the turtles. he's just a purist, and thats ok.

Meh; with the exception of times when an original product is arguably better than the one that bastardized it (and "arguably" means "with more to argue that the original is better than it simply being the original"), I can't think of any time that being a purist is a good thing. The original Batman comics might have been good, but they weren't the be-all-and-end-all of the series. Originally, their character Mr. Zero was a fairly one-note villain; then the Adam West show renamed him Mr. Freeze and expanded him, and finally Batman: The Animated Series gave him an immense amount of development with a sympathetic motive, and it was so good that it stuck in the comics. Harley Quinn was also so interesting (in part because she gave more dimension to the Joker) that she was added to the comics. Had the comics writers been purists, they could have blocked all of that neat stuff.

Also, there's the chance of an original work starting good and then going to crap. When I first saw the Teen Titans animated series, I thought it was kind of stupid and annoying, and it bastardized some of the stories Marv Wolfman and George Perez did pretty badly (although their wasn't the original take on Teen Titans, either, but it's the one the show is most based on), but it grew on me, and then I got a chance to see what the actual Teen Titans comics had become since the Wolfman and Perez era--long story short, they were intolerable. Annoying, emo, soap opera-ish, senselessly-macabre, and worst of all, making liberal use of the "Which Titan will we kill this month" gimmick to sell comics. At this point, I'm not even going to pretend I don't like the cartoon better.

That said, even when I dislike the direction a new edition/version takes as a whole, doesn't mean that I want to discount every single thing in it. I mentioned I hated the overall direction Teen Titans comics were going, but I loved Ms. Martian, and I'm now very glad she is in the Young Justice show. When good things are created, they should be retained for other adaptations, and when bad things are created, it's worth seeing if they can be revised and improved in other adaptations. Purists tend to be blind to all that.

[Jester]

In that case, Laird isn't a complete purist, because Hun and the Battle Nexus (and maybe other things) make their way into Mirage cannon.

[Hermano Dyvas]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

Meh; with the exception of times when an original product is arguably better than the one that bastardized it (and "arguably" means "with more to argue that the original is better than it simply being the original"), I can't think of any time that being a purist is a good thing.

That said, even when I dislike the direction a new edition/version takes as a whole, doesn't mean that I want to discount every single thing in it. I mentioned I hated the overall direction Teen Titans comics were going, but I loved Ms. Martian, and I'm now very glad she is in the Young Justice show. When good things are created, they should be retained for other adaptations, and when bad things are created, it's worth seeing if they can be revised and improved in other adaptations. Purists tend to be blind to all that.

You seem to have trouble putting a difference between fans and the creator of the original version himself.

As the creator of the original universe I think Pete has a right to be a purist about it.

[Donnie]

Originally Posted by Hermano Dyvas

As the creator of the original universe I think Pete has a right to be a purist about it.

Agreed 100%. JRR Tolkien would be quite critical with the LotR movie trilogy. But I don't care, I still love them! Even though the example isn't exactly the same since the trilogy came out after his death, the fact remains that the creator should have the right to separate from his work and be overly critical about it.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by Hermano Dyvas

As the creator of the original universe I think Pete has a right to be a purist about it.

And as an American, he has a right to give anyone the finger. Just because someone has the right to do something doesn't mean they should. To go back to Marv Wolfman, he could have objected to the Teen Titans TV series, but in fact he was nice enough to write episodes for it. Stan Lee enjoys the (ridiculously altered) Japanese Spider-Man show. Hideo Kojima considers the unofficial, America-only game Snake's Revenge a good entry into the series; even if it's non-canon. Creators have a right to get hot and bothered about others meddling in their intellectual property, but their peers have the right to state that this is an unpleasant mindset.

If you're going to be that finicky about the direction others might take your series, you should draw the line a long time before selling the rights to a toy company. You should resolve to remain the only person who is writing the stories for your series. Now, I know Peter Laird didn't exactly have the ability to do that, as the comics were a cocreation of him and Eastman, and from what I understand Eastman was more open to the Playmates deal than Laird was, but that it wasn't a one-man show from the very beginning should have been enough for Peter not to act like he was the only one whose input into the turtles mattered, even at the time he was the sole owner.

[Noah13]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

And as an American, he has a right to give anyone the finger.

Are you saying we (non-americans) don't have this right?

[Plasticplayhouse]

Originally Posted by Noah13

Are you saying we (non-americans) don't have this right?

Now that's funny! I was kinda thinking the same thing.

[FearlessLeader]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

And as an American, he has a right to give anyone the finger. Just because someone has the right to do something doesn't mean they should. To go back to Marv Wolfman, he could have objected to the Teen Titans TV series, but in fact he was nice enough to write episodes for it. Stan Lee enjoys the (ridiculously altered) Japanese Spider-Man show. Hideo Kojima considers the unofficial, America-only game Snake's Revenge a good entry into the series; even if it's non-canon. Creators have a right to get hot and bothered about others meddling in their intellectual property, but their peers have the right to state that this is an unpleasant mindset.

If you're going to be that finicky about the direction others might take your series, you should draw the line a long time before selling the rights to a toy company. You should resolve to remain the only person who is writing the stories for your series. Now, I know Peter Laird didn't exactly have the ability to do that, as the comics were a cocreation of him and Eastman, and from what I understand Eastman was more open to the Playmates deal than Laird was, but that it wasn't a one-man show from the very beginning should have been enough for Peter not to act like he was the only one whose input into the turtles mattered, even at the time he was the sole owner.

Peter is a human being and isn't perfect. Has every choice and word that he has ever said been perfect... no. You seem to expect him to fit into this nice, tidy little idea of how YOU think he should act. That's kind of silly.

Once again I will state if what Pete does and says seems to fluster you to the level where you continuously write these long drawn out rants maybe you should stop reading his opinions and move on to something that makes you a happier person.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

If you're going to be that finicky about the direction others might take your series, you should draw the line a long time before selling the rights to a toy company. You should resolve to remain the only person who is writing the stories for your series.

Jesus Christ dude, just look at Volume 1 of Mirage. Pete let a lot of people do a lot of things with the turtles over the years.

[Jester]

Exactly. He just knew what he wanted from the Turtles he was working on, be it volume 4 or the 4kids series.

[Leo656]

I'unno, I think the dude raises a lot of good points. A few people do have a less than sparkling view of Laird, but to be fair, he kinda said and did a lot to put us in that mindset.

Konchadunga made a lot of good points how other creators have been more than accomodating to other interpretations of their precious IP. Laird has always been a little too "Stiff" for my (and I'm guessing a few others) tastes.

At the same time, I think a lot of fans have put Laird (and Eastman too to a degree) on something of an undeserved pedestal "just" because they created the TMNT. Since they've both repeatedly said it's caused them more headaches than joy over the years, I'm not one of those people and I kinda wish they'd sold it off to someone who actually would have been more pro-active with the franchise years ago, even if what came of it wasn't "true to the creators' vision".

That's what I meant earlier by Laird not being as "into it" as we are. I meant we LOVE the TMNT, and I don't think Eastman or Laird ever saw it as more than a business. The more Laird especially talks about it, he makes it seem like it was the worst thing he ever did. I can understand it, but I still hate it.

But all opinions are valid. Let's not go smackin' folks just because they don't all mesh.

[Hermano Dyvas]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

And as an American, he has a right to give anyone the finger.

Originally Posted by Noah13

Are you saying we (non-americans) don't have this right?

Actually I was watching this Britisch cop show the other day and turned out there's an actual law against it in Britain. If you do it in public at least.


But back to our subject, just because he can doesn't mean he should, maybe so.

I for one respect the fact that he voices his opinion, even if it clashes with everybody else's. All his fan's going "You shouldn't pull the plug on it if you had a time machine." and he just goes "Yeah, there's a big chance I'd pull the plug on it.". It takes character to do that.

I don't think he should fake enthusiasm about IDW or other mediums if that's not what he feels.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by Hermano Dyvas

Actually I was watching this Britisch cop show the other day and turned out there's an actual law against it in Britain. If you do it in public at least.


But back to our subject, just because he can doesn't mean he should, maybe so.

I for one respect the fact that he voices his opinion, even if it clashes with everybody else's. All his fan's going "You shouldn't pull the plug on it if you had a time machine." and he just goes "Yeah, there's a big chance I'd pull the plug on it.". It takes character to do that.

I don't think he should fake enthusiasm about IDW or other mediums if that's not what he feels.

I also think some people are overlooking or downplaying the context of his responses. He never just says, "yeah, I wish I never invented the turtles." He goes on to weigh the pros and cons and that even though he ultimately would (if not for his daughter), he would certainly hesitate before doing so. People only use his final decision (which is simply hypothetical) as a means to judge him without noting the context at all. If people actually read his entire responses, he doesn't sound like a bitter old man. Someone who has been worn out by the franchise? Sure. But he also gives plenty of evidence that he's doing his best to be honest without sounding like a bitter old man.

[Fugitoid Jones]

I just think it's kinda funny how Pete doesn't like the artwork for the IDW series, but this is the same guy that had Jim Lawson draw nearly all his stuff. While I admit that Dan Duncan's art wouldn't be my ideal choice for a TMNT comic, I think it's a hell of a lot better to look at than Lawson's squibbles (at least not early Lawson, early Lawson was alright).

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Fugitoid Jones

I just think it's kinda funny how Pete doesn't like the artwork for the IDW series, but this is the same guy that had Jim Lawson draw nearly all his stuff. While I admit that Dan Duncan's art wouldn't be my ideal choice for a TMNT comic, I think it's a hell of a lot better to look at than Lawson's squibbles (at least not early Lawson, early Lawson was alright).

I've always loved Lawson's artwork. It's so nice not to be part of the pack mentality isnt it?