Cartoon characters designs

[SherlockJr]

I wouldn't say anyone's concluding animation has gotten lazy over the years, just the designs have become more simplified and easier to animate; more practical than lazy, IMO.

[Candy Kappa]

designs have far from gotten lazy, that's a idiotic statement, There's a lot of diversity and variations. looking at the 80's and early 90's the majority of the popular cartoons have the same style and design, now many of the shows that are most recognized have a lot of visual differences in comparison.

[KROW]

Originally Posted by Peanut

It seems like KROW is getting defensive about his childhood based entirely on the content of the shows themselves, which isn't what this was about.

Did it come off that way? Gah... Wasn't my intention, honestly.

Pickleweed did bring up great points; most I agree with, others I don't. I'll just leave it at that. No harm done.

Originally Posted by SherlockJr

I wouldn't say anyone's concluding animation has gotten lazy over the years, just the designs have become more simplified and easier to animate; more practical than lazy, IMO.

Yes. Easier, not lazy.

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

designs have far from gotten lazy, that's a idiotic statement, There's a lot of diversity and variations. looking at the 80's and early 90's the majority of the popular cartoons have the same style and design, now many of the shows that are most recognized have a lot of visual differences in comparison.

please don't call a small remark I made an "idiotic statement." Don't be rude. I should have explained myself. Maybe what I percieve to be a dip in character design is more practical than "lazy" (poor choice of words I suppose), I'm just saying that I prefere the more detailed character designs from the 90's than the more simplified ones now. I was also trying to point out eariler that I think detailed facial and body designs can be done with fluid on model animation like it was done in the Gargoyals series. Some people one here (maybe I misunderstood them) seemed to say that the more detailed facial and body desgins meant smooth animation would be sacrificed like in cartoons like X-Men and Thunder Cat. I was also trying to point out that maybe since we have better technological advancement in animation that the detailed characters could be done without sacrifice in animtion, but most animators choose not to because it is easier to have stylized faces and bodies. Thats what I meant by "lazy." I realize budget and time constraints come into play with these things so thats probably what really decides things. Also this all just my own opinion.

[Candy Kappa]

if you didn't mean lazy you should have worded yourself differently. nuff' said

as for designs, I'd disagree that the 80's early 90's stuff looks more "detailed" compared to other designs of similar proportions and anatomy. the slight differences are that the more modern stuff tend to have a angular edge in comparison to the older designs, that are rounded out. Too much details can hurt an animated character, not just by cost and limitations, but also by looking weird, or older then the character should. The Hobbit Film and Return of the King is a great example on that, where the eyes have too many lines making Bilbo look very tired.

Honestly a lot of the simpler designs drives the visual effect of showing emotions a lot better then the more realistic designs, especially compared to the older 80's shows. Drama Island's simplistic Flash designs emulates way more emotion and inner thoughts compared to shows like He-Man.

But simple designs isn't exactly a new phenomenon

[SherlockJr]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

if you didn't mean lazy you should have worded yourself differently. nuff' said

as for designs, I'd disagree that the 80's early 90's stuff looks more "detailed" compared to other designs of similar proportions and anatomy. the slight differences are that the more modern stuff tend to have a angular edge in comparison to the older designs, that are rounded out. Too much details can hurt an animated character, not just by cost and limitations, but also by looking weird, or older then the character should. The Hobbit Film and Return of the King is a great example on that, where the eyes have too many lines making Bilbo look very tired.

Very true, indeed. The designs in the Rankin Bass LOTR films made all the characters look 75 and up.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Honestly a lot of the simpler designs drives the visual effect of showing emotions a lot better then the more realistic designs, especially compared to the older 80's shows. Drama Island's simplistic Flash designs emulates way more emotion and inner thoughts compared to shows like He-Man.

Excellent point.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by SherlockJr

Very true, indeed. The designs in the Rankin Bass LOTR films made all the characters look 75 and up..

yeah, it works on the hard working humans and the Dwarves. Gandalf looks wicked. but on a Hobbit, it's a bit too much.

Take the Bakshi film, Frodo is a lot simpler in the details, making him look younger and boyish. or take the Bakshi Bildo, the art styles are vastly different, but the lines are more smooth making him look appropriately older, but not so dead tired

[ThePickleweed]

[QUOTE=KROW;932250]

Pickleweed did bring up great points; most I agree with, others I don't. I'll just leave it at that. No harm done.[/COLOR]

id love to discuss it if youre willing. this thread has kind of meandered all over the place between animation quality, vs the actual designs, vs simple preferences.

this topic is pretty in my wheelhouse so to speak. i went to school for animation and have heard guys like david coleman and stephen silver speak, and have drawn a lot of influence from their work. Really talented guys whom i wouldnt regard as lazy. Personally, Id love to try and make the jump to character design if i ever manage the time or the stones to switch fields!

cant wait for 2020 to hear people regard my stuff as lazy and ugly compared the stuff now

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by ThePickleweed

cant wait for 2020 to hear people regard my stuff as lazy and ugly compared the stuff now

same here

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by SherlockJr

I wouldn't say anyone's concluding animation has gotten lazy over the years, just the designs have become more simplified and easier to animate; more practical than lazy, IMO.

This I can agree with more the most part. I don't think they make design less detailed for the sake of laziness, but for sake of simplicity and cost effectiveness.

But I must say there are a few shows that stand out from others. The two that come to mine for me are TMNT 2K3 and Young Justice. I must say though Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent look almost exactly a like. In the Ep called "Schooled" They r at a diner and I was dumb founded at how similar they r drawn.
But I love how both these shows r drawn and the action scenes in shows r fantastic. Favorite fight scene is from the 2k3 series in April Apartment in "Shredder Strikes Back" Fight scenes were jst awesome

[Zany Orange Dude]

Okay, let me explain what I meant in my earlier post. No, not all cartoons today look like crap and like I said before, not all cartoons from the 80s and 90s are exactly gold either. Each decade has its own winners and losers. And when I really think about it, I unjustly went against modern animation designs. It's not really the designs or animation themselves, there are just very few cartoon shows today I enjoy. I prefer older cartoons so that was me being bias against newer ones. So allow me to mend my previous post now that I have a clearer mind.

No, modern designs are not God awul, but I do prefer the older more detailed designs. Too much detail, however, leads to far too stilted animation, just as too simple designs leads to looking somewhat lazy. Shows like the New Looney Tunes Show to me anyway are a good example of a simpler style. I hate the character designs on cartoons such as the Regular Show. But this is just my opinion and I mean no offense against people who like that show.

I am sorry for saying modern designs look like a drunk dude drew them. That was me being crazy me. I may not exactly care for them, but I understand that there are other people out there that do and I can respect that. In the end I think each style, whether detailed or simple, has it place depending on the type of show. I don't think South Park would be as appealing if it were in a detailed design just like Animaniacs wouldn't come off as good in a simplistic style.

[Lisardo]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

I blame Bruce Timm

While I sort of like the "streamlined" look of today, I can't say I disagree with the above statement. Timm did set a trend for this style by the way he animated Batman and later shows. He started off fairly simplified with Batman: The Animated Series (when it was a Fox show) but when it moved to WB and became "The Batman/Superman Show" (technically the Batman portion was called "The New Batman Adventures"), I guess WB wanted a different, even more simplified look yet.

I can't say I was as impressed with the more simplified "streamlined" look to his shows. I thought it was simplified enough when it was B:TAS. Tho somehow it became popular even with today's shows. I think also Timm's streamlined style was somewhat anime-ish, and the American toons of today want that sort of look (maybe to compete with the anime shows in Japan..?). So they figured it's "in" now and all the co's wanna animate their shows like this. Not sure why the more detailed, "comic book" look was so popular in the 80s and 90s tho.

On the other token, I can't say I was super impressed with the overly-detailed look of say, Xmen. I do see how Timm made the animation better by focusing less on detail, and more on animation and style. Mostly, it works. Anyway that's my thoughts on it.

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

if you didn't mean lazy you should have worded yourself differently. nuff' said

...and I came back and explained myself. And I still stand by what I said. We don't agree with each other so I guess thats that.

Honestly a lot of the simpler designs drives the visual effect of showing emotions a lot better then the more realistic designs, especially compared to the older 80's shows. Drama Island's simplistic Flash designs emulates way more emotion and inner thoughts compared to shows like He-Man

to be honest I find alot of the facial emotions in the Total Drama series to be kind of exaggerated, especially when they're pissed. It's not all crap though.

As for the Hobbit, I kind of thought the rustic weary looks of the Bilbo and the dwarves was intentional. And it was a victim of it's time because other Rankin Bass movies was drawn in such a way that their characters conveyed a wide range of emotion and still looked age appropriate and good looking.

I will agree that if character designs are too realistic they can look ugly. Some modern day anime has gotten into this more realistic looking character designs and at times it can look weird, especially when it is an update of an old series that had a more traditional anime look orginally.

As for the Bruce Timm thing, I know it grew on some people but I never fully got on board with the visual changes the Batman characters underwent.

[Jelly Bean]

reading over this thread, and the portion that was cut away and placed in the disintegrator section, I had no idea that a topic on how cartoons look, then and now, would be like kicking a hornets nest.

[Sage Ninja]

are you new around here?