Rereading Volume 4

[Cowabunga Carl]

It's been a long while since I read Volume 4. I know it is one of those volumes that has both critics and fans. I'll be honest, I don't remember much of it. Well I mean I remember that it seemed way more sci-fi then I thought the Turtles should be.

So I'm starting to reread it. I'll post my views of each issue after I've read them. What I thought and such. I'd like to hear though what and why others didn't like about this volume.

[CyberCubed]

It was fairly good up to issue #11 or so, then the Turtles all go their separate ways and there are like 10 plotlines going on at once.

However the last two issues were online only at PL's blog. The good thing is it seemed like the series was wrapping up by the last one posted:

- April's story is done (she was returning to her family)
- Don's story is done (the mutated Utroms and dino's were resolved)
- Raph's story is done (the vampires were arrested)
- Mike's story is ongoing (he is going to kill Stryacadons)
- Leo's story is ongoing (he's in the Battle Nexus with Oroku Yoshi)

While Don is still small he wears robot turtle armor that looks like Metalhead, and Raph is still in his mutated gamera form.

[Cowabunga Carl]

Are those last two issues online? I don't think I've seen them.

[PizzaPower]

i remember only seeing one issue on his blog, whats the links?

[Cipher]

Cool project. My basic thoughts are love the story, hate the execution/lack of follow-through, particularly hate the dialogue.

Issue #30, when you get to it, is an extremely concise presentation of the series' problems.

Spoiler:

Half of it is spent on Casey Jones narrating "the worst hangover he's ever had," out loud, to himself, which is as ridiculous as it sounds. The rest of the issue focuses on his fight with a robot shark (which he also narrates out loud) that has no bearing on the story, gets a clunky explanation, and is promptly dismissed.

It's the mother load.

But yeah, it's a serious love/hate thing. I like where it goes enough to want it to be better. And I still want to see how it ends.

[CyberCubed]

Volume 4 started in 2001. That means its been an entire decade since the series started and we only got 31 issues and still no conclusion.

Goodness.

[Cowabunga Carl]

That's kind of why I'm going to do this. I mean I haven't read the issues since they first came out. So It's been a while. Still trying to find those issues you were talking about Cubed. You still have a link?

[Cowabunga Carl]

Just got done reading issue 1 of Volume 4. I haven’t read it since I first got it; heck in fact it had been in storage for the last three years. So even if I wanted to I couldn’t. But now that it and I are in similar places I have the chance to go back and relive Volume 4. I don’t remember hating it, but I don’t remember loving it either. So for me this is rediscovering this version of the Turtles.

As it opens you see a strange robot. At first glance it isn’t clear who this robot is but it becomes apparent when he starts talking to Utroms that it is Honeycutt. But what are they doing? They are on the moon making a base?

Then we switch to the TMNT them selves in a situation we saw them in before. Their backs are to the wall again, but instead of Purple Dragons they are facing a new gang. Of course a fight happens and the guys end up trouncing them but fleeing as the gang riding snowmobiles again attacks them on the roof. As they flee Mike is hit by a bus and taken by a shadowy figure.

The final story has to do with Casey and April trying to have a child and on their way to see a Dr. Meanwhile Shadow, Splinter, and the retired heroes from Volume 1 in North Hampton. Shadow is training but distracted because she feels like something big is coming.

After finishing the issue it seems to be off to a good start. I mean looking at it, it seems that a lot will be going on. There are even a few lines where characters make jokes about how things were easier 15 years ago. It makes it fun to see the characters acknowledge that they are getting older.

On this issue alone Volume 4 seems like it will be a fun ride. Even the letters section at the back where Pete talks about wanting to do another comic makes it sound exciting and an awesome time to be a fan. Reading that makes it bitter sweet because we know what happens down the line. But so far this idea of rereading Volume 4 feels like it will be an awesome ride.

[Cipher]

This is one of the issues I own a physical copy of (sadly, I don't have the entire volume, though I have read it all at least once), so I broke it out again to take another look. Detailed thoughts:

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Pages 1-10

The opening is nice and mysterious, as you said. I have no problem with Honeycutt (as we'll soon find out) jumping around on the moon for a few pages. But then we get to the bottom of page four and the problems start.

Honeycutt starts talking to himself.

It's small here, and easy to overlook, but it will soon become one of the book's worst problems. Why does he need to be so verbose about the moon-landing equipment? Unlike later problematic dialogue, this actually does add a bit to the scene and his respect for the human race they're about to engage, but couldn't it have been accomplished with the pictures alone? With maybe 1/4 as much dialogue even?

More bouncing, and he arrives for a conversation with some sort of captain Utrom. They talk about ... "the artifact." Wait, what? Honeycutt goes on to explain his admiration for it again. It's much more natural here (though the actual dialogue is still kind of stilted), so why did he have to go on and on about it two pages back? Ugggh.

Some more cryptic dialogue and then, boom: Big two page spread of the Utrom base and an ominous line from Honeycutt about being sure "your technicians know what they're doing." Very cool and a great way to end a scene.

Except the scene isn't over. We get one more page of conversation between the Utrom and Honeycutt. It's totally verbose and unnecessary, and ruins the cool pacing that would have been accomplished by ending on the last spread. It establishes they have human captives (which is totally unimportant and you'll definitely have forgotten about it by the time they land on Earth) and provides a clumsy transition to the Turtles on Earth. I have my suspicions this page was included only to physically accommodate another two-page spread on 12-13, but surely there were other ways around it.

“If you shake a movie, ten minutes will fall out.” - Director Don Siegel

Things that should fall out if you shake the first 10 pages of this comic: Honeycutt rambling about the moon-landing and all of page 10.

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Pages 11-32

The rest of the comic is more or less a continuous scene starting with a fight against the Madhattan Maulitia.

I like this fight. I like the opening pages mirroring the first-ever issue, replacing "costumes" with "aliens" in a bit of totally acceptable foreshadowing. I like the art; Jim Lawson's surreal style really jives with Laird's ink and tones providing depth. I like the banter in the first few pages of the fight as well; with the Turtles being baffled and amused at how inept their opponents are. I like the --

-- Holy **** the Turtles talk so much when they're running up the fire escape. Why are they talking so much. --

-- little talk they have when they finally catch their breath on page 18. It's far from the best character moment we've ever seen, but it's an appropriate time for a chat, it's funny, and it's one of the few times Volume 4 drives home the "nearly-middle-aged mutant ninja turtles" aspect. Good bit to include in the first issue.

Page 19: Snowmobiles on the roof. I actually have no problem with this. The Turtles are just as shocked as the readers, so it's actually pretty funny.

Page 20: "It's called momentum jerk -- look it up!" This is banter I can deal with.

Page 21: Donatello says the following while he's setting up a trap in front of a speeding snowmobile whose driver is shooting at him: "It pains me to say it, but perhaps all together the Maulitia possess an iota of intelligence! Then again ... hard to drive and shoot at the same time, isn't it? To paraphrase Archimedes: 'Give me a fulcrum and a long enough TV antenna, and I can move the world! ... Or at least a nutball on a snow scooter!"

Who is talking to? The guy shooting at him/being thrown through the air? How did he have time to say all that? Why was it necessary? Holy god.

Page 22: Raph wants to kill the Maulitia. Leo tells him they're not worth it. I dig.

So, Don takes a snowmobile and Mike gets hit by a bus. No problem with either of these. I continue to really dig the depth and style of the art on these pages.

We close out the Turtles' section with Donatello crashing his snowmobile and discovering a truck and --

HOLY GOD HOW IS DONATELLO TALKING SO MUCH AS HIS SNOWMOBILE EXPLODES? WHY IS PONTIFICATING OUT LOUD TO NOBODY ABOUT THE "PROPER MAINTENANCE OF MOTORIZED RECREATIONAL VEHICLES?" NO ONE WOULD EVER DO THIS.

-- with that we cut to April and Casey getting into a car. Their conversation is totally expository and hardly worth commenting on. We learn they're trying for a baby, which we know because Casey says "this baby thing," which isn't how humans actually talk when they both understand what the situation is, but whatever.

The end of the issue takes us to the Northampton farm, where Shadow is apparently staying with Splinter and the Justice Force. The reappearance of the Justice Force at this point, and especially the idea they're close enough to the Turtles and co. to be living among them is ... incredibly random, but okay. Shadow expresses in a normal amount of speech bubbles that she's concerned about April and Casey, and Splinter reassures her, which is one of the more refreshingly not ridiculous conversations in the issue.

Shadow has a feeling something big is about to happen, which, while cheesy, I actually really like given where the next few issues go.

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I nitpick. I actually enjoy the issue overall. It's a decent re-introduction to the characters and, while it doesn't take the very far on its own, it sets up all the mysterious elements which will lead to a big change in the TMNT universe in coming issues. The art in the first several issues is gorgeous, and this is no exception. I love the snow.

But even in these first 32 pages, Laird's writing (actual dialogue; not story ideas) and pacing issues are hard to ignore, and it only gets worse from here.

[Matches Malone]

I recently reread this a few weeks ago! I definitely came to like it more than I did initially. I warmed up a bit to Lawson's artwork as I think when I first read it, I was just a bit shocked by how much his style had changed since Return Of New York, City At War, and even Volume 2. The toning was great and it was a shame when Laird decided to abandon it.

Most of the plot threads are genuinely interesting. Yes, he's not the greatest writer, but the turtles never had the most brilliant dialogue (they certainly had its moments). If the adventure and idea is interesting enough, I'm hooked. Unfortunately, vampires, superheroes, and Lawson's stylized humans made the series feel more and more like a goofy cartoon.

Yet all of these things I was able to overlook and and overall enjoy. To me, the main complaint is Peter Laird's refusal to have set story arcs. This makes the story feel really scattered and ultimately directionless and unsatisfying. I can appreciate the idea of wanting to leave things open ended and organic, but it the way it was executed makes it hard to find any ideas or themes to grasp on to. When asked what happens in Volume 4, it always ends up being summarized as "a bunch of stuff happens" (Raph gets mutated, Donatello gets shrunk, etc.). One thing I appreciate about IDW's series is that it keeps the open-ended and intricate plot thread style of Volume 4, but is focused enough to give us relatively solid story arcs at the same time. #1-5 = Origin. #6-8 = Mouser battle. #9-12 = Shredder/Foot showdown. This kind of focus could have vastly improved Volume 4...

Best example? Whatever happened to that f'in van from #3?! Kind of made it feel like a waste of time, huh?

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

Most of the plot threads are genuinely interesting. Yes, he's not the greatest writer, but the turtles never had the most brilliant dialogue (they certainly had its moments).

I promise I'll quit harping on it after this post, but it's a little more glaring than that. Compared to any of the other major TMNT story arcs to this point (City at War, Volume 2, even Volume 3), the difference is astronomical. Even comparedto the silly, comic-book speak in the first 11 issues of Volume 1, it's way, way too much here.

I think part of it may be the fact that he used a sloppier version of the "Marvel Method" to write the series. He provided Lawson with the essential elements of each issue, then went back to the penciled pages to add dialogue. Maybe he simply got overzealous with this step. Maybe there was too little collaboration on pacing and he ended up with scenes that didn't quite work as silent images, but also definitely didn't benefit from adding a million speech bubbles.

Whatever the case, Laird's approach to writing dialogue in this volume is among the worst in the entirety of Turtles comics, and spoils many an otherwise enjoyable or poignant moment.

Hey, the story hooked me regardless, but it's just so hard to ignore.

Best example? Whatever happened to that f'in van from #3?! Kind of made it feel like a waste of time, huh?

We don't talk about the van.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Old Hob

On this issue alone Volume 4 seems like it will be a fun ride. Even the letters section at the back where Pete talks about wanting to do another comic makes it sound exciting and an awesome time to be a fan. Reading that makes it bitter sweet because we know what happens down the line. But so far this idea of rereading Volume 4 feels like it will be an awesome ride.

Ah yes, those letters pages where a bunch of bittler, spoiled, hateful virgins decided to piss on Laird for his own personal views on things and bait him with accusations of hating the old 'toon and other issues they had with either the comic or Lawson, and Peter rightfully struck back at them.

You'll find me in quite a few of those letters pages helping Pete every step of the way. Those readers were scum.

[PizzaPower]

i have every issue except #29, anad i cant find it anywhere. I enjoyed it. Some things i was like ehhh, and others i was like oh i love where they are going with this like Donatellos Story.

[pannoni1]

I feel like Mirage released way too many Tales Vol. 2 issues in proportion to regular Vol. 4 issues (even including the mini-series), myself having never read a Vol. 4 story despite being a huge fan. A main difference is that unlike earlier volumes, its the Turtles vs. the Aliens as opposed to the Turtles vs. the Humans. Peter seemed more focused on helping 4kids and Warner Bros. for the franchise with those projects and without Eastman to assist him, it resulted in many flat issues. It seems like the Michael Bay film wanted to draw from Volume 4, and the less than stellar reviews clearly has proven to be a red flag with the "aliens" issue. The main point is that its best to read after you appreciated everything else prior as reading Volume 4 from scratch won't leave you with a good impression.

[thelouisguy]

After rereading Volume 1, I tried rereading Volume 2. It lost me after issue #8. I then tried rereading Volume 4. It lost me after issue #8 as well.

Is it just me or is it just difficult to live up to the past?

[Cowabunga Carl]

So I now read issues 2 and 3 last night. I guess I have the benefit of reading them before so I know the story starts picking up, but if I had not I’d wonder what was going on. The story just seems to jump all over and not actually build anything to the point I really want to know what is going on. More of what the heck, okay that was weird.

I’m not going to break the issues down this time because honestly not much really happened in these two issues. The biggest thing was the fixing of the armored car and then the Utroms landing. Yet again nothing really happens there.

Volume 4 is definitely a slow build character driven book, but not enough time is given each issue to characters to actually care. Again though since I have read these before I know what is coming and can look at it as a huge story, which in turn makes me care if that makes any since.

[Venom]

Originally Posted by Old Hob

Volume 4 is definitely a slow build character driven book, but not enough time is given each issue to characters to actually care. Again though since I have read these before I know what is coming and can look at it as a huge story, which in turn makes me care if that makes any since.

The thing about Volume 4 is that it wasn't truly intended to be a mass appeal book; it was a labor of love Peter had at the time because he had some stories he wanted to tell with the Turtles.

It wasn't written to attract new readers, rather it was to be read with the understanding of the characters from the preceding Mirage Volumes and be enjoyed by those who always enjoyed the comic Turtles.

The notoriety sprang from us folks who grew up with the original toon was now old enough to read the comics, and most were shocked that the Mirage Turtles were vastly different from the ones they remembered. Some of us embraced the Turtles as they originally were, while others did not, and Peter's matter-of-fact attitude in the letter's page gave him an air of smugness that further turned folks off.

There's a small bit of sadness, in a way, when reading the Turtles' comics because you know the history of the times and can see the characters stories evolve with the changing atmospheres around Mirage in those eras.

And I've completely went off base with my thoughts. So carry on.