New CGI movie

~~Leo656~~ · 01-08-2022, 03:43 AM

Nailed it, Andrew.

Full disclosure, though, in anticipation of a rebuttal from some people or persons who think it has to be one thing or another, I'm no longer convinced that a "better" or "more serious" take on TMNT would ever make the brand "popular" again, either. I used to think that, like ten years ago, but I don't anymore.

The thing is, I see how the younger generation entertains itself, how disposable their entertainment is to them and how they don't form long-lasting bonds with brands or characters the way we did. They don't do the whole "nostalgia" thing, to them old is just Old, and if it's old then they're done with it. The Nick cartoon, for example, is generally only still talked about by us, the G1 fans who watched some or all of it. Kids don't still care about it, they "outgrew" it. I really, honestly don't think that generation is going to "revive" the brand again through their nostalgic passion for ten years ago, the way we did in 2003. That reboot worked because our generation of fans were PASSIONATE about the brand and actively wanted to see it come back, and it helped us overlook some of the flaws in the 4Kids cartoon, the toys, the Mirage revival, etc. We carried it because TMNT mattered to us; it was more than just an old toy or cartoon, it had become part of who we were as people.

That's not true, to the same extent, of the younger crowd right now. To them it IS just an old silly thing they liked before they got into "cooler" stuff like Fortnite. Ask most kids who were 5-10 when they watched the Nick cartoon how excited they'd be for a big TMNT revival of some type, most of them would just say "eh". It's different. Everything. The times, the people, the products... Nothing is the same as it was twenty years ago, and I don't think it ever will be.

I really think now that the brand was heavily a product of its time that spoke strongly to a generation, for various reasons, but ONLY to that generation, as They/We are the only group of fans who ever STRONGLY bonded with the material and went back to it years later with the same level of enthusiasm. But I don't see that continuing. There was no huge surge of nostalgia in 2013 for the 4Kids show's anniversary; the kids who were 6 in 2003 didn't care enough to keep talking about it in 2013, and they're certainly not discussing it Now either. I don't see why it will be any different for the Nick cartoon. The 6-year olds of 2012 aren't automatically going to feel romantic and nostalgic about that cartoon again in 2022.

The only audience that has EVER come back consistently, are the 6-year olds of 1988. I really, honestly do think it's going to stay that way, and I think TMNT as a "brand" dies with us. There will always be toys, but I absolutely foresee a very near future where the cartoons, movies, and comics go away. We've already reached a point where the toys are the only things consistently making any money; it's not a far hop from there to "Fine, we just won't do the other stuff anymore." If the next movie flops, and then the NEXT one, whenever it may be... I think that's Game Over, officially. Nobody's going to spend $200 million to make a measly ten million (or LOSE ten million) dollars on a Ninja Turtles movie (or show, or video game, etc.) when the toys sell well even without those other things to "promote" them. TMNT action figures, T-shirts, etc. is a sustainable business model for whoever owns the brand. They can forever produce that stuff for pennies and make back billions. Movies and TV shows are not a sustainable business model, however, unless your brand shows a certain level of being "bulletproof". TMNT has never been that brand, as it's forever been a mixed bag at the best of times and its general fanbase is schizophrenic and bipolar.

Sounds kinda Doom N Gloom, maybe, and I confess that sometimes when I'm in a mood I can sound like I'm rooting for that to happen, but not so much that, really. It's more like, I just see the writing on the wall and if that's where things are headed then I'd like to skip the next three bad, failed retries and skip right to the "It's just a toy line for adults now" part. I just don't have a ton of patience, and as bad as tbe Bay stuff was I'm scared that the next one(s) might be even worse.

I swear though, I'm just being pragmatic. "Looking at the tea leaves" and just reading the general temperature of "TMNT Fans", who they are and what they respond to the most... This is sincerely the way I see things going. 15 years, I think. 20 if the next cartoon does better than expected.

01-08-2022, 03:43 AM	#11
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Nailed it, Andrew. Full disclosure, though, in anticipation of a rebuttal from some people or persons who think it has to be one thing or another, I'm no longer convinced that a "better" or "more serious" take on TMNT would ever make the brand "popular" again, either. I used to think that, like ten years ago, but I don't anymore. The thing is, I see how the younger generation entertains itself, how disposable their entertainment is to them and how they don't form long-lasting bonds with brands or characters the way we did. They don't do the whole "nostalgia" thing, to them old is just Old, and if it's old then they're done with it. The Nick cartoon, for example, is generally only still talked about by us, the G1 fans who watched some or all of it. Kids don't still care about it, they "outgrew" it. I really, honestly don't think that generation is going to "revive" the brand again through their nostalgic passion for ten years ago, the way we did in 2003. That reboot worked because our generation of fans were PASSIONATE about the brand and actively wanted to see it come back, and it helped us overlook some of the flaws in the 4Kids cartoon, the toys, the Mirage revival, etc. We carried it because TMNT mattered to us; it was more than just an old toy or cartoon, it had become part of who we were as people. That's not true, to the same extent, of the younger crowd right now. To them it IS just an old silly thing they liked before they got into "cooler" stuff like Fortnite. Ask most kids who were 5-10 when they watched the Nick cartoon how excited they'd be for a big TMNT revival of some type, most of them would just say "eh". It's different. Everything. The times, the people, the products... Nothing is the same as it was twenty years ago, and I don't think it ever will be. I really think now that the brand was heavily a product of its time that spoke strongly to a generation, for various reasons, but ONLY to that generation, as They/We are the only group of fans who ever STRONGLY bonded with the material and went back to it years later with the same level of enthusiasm. But I don't see that continuing. There was no huge surge of nostalgia in 2013 for the 4Kids show's anniversary; the kids who were 6 in 2003 didn't care enough to keep talking about it in 2013, and they're certainly not discussing it Now either. I don't see why it will be any different for the Nick cartoon. The 6-year olds of 2012 aren't automatically going to feel romantic and nostalgic about that cartoon again in 2022. The only audience that has EVER come back consistently, are the 6-year olds of 1988. I really, honestly do think it's going to stay that way, and I think TMNT as a "brand" dies with us. There will always be toys, but I absolutely foresee a very near future where the cartoons, movies, and comics go away. We've already reached a point where the toys are the only things consistently making any money; it's not a far hop from there to "Fine, we just won't do the other stuff anymore." If the next movie flops, and then the NEXT one, whenever it may be... I think that's Game Over, officially. Nobody's going to spend $200 million to make a measly ten million (or LOSE ten million) dollars on a Ninja Turtles movie (or show, or video game, etc.) when the toys sell well even without those other things to "promote" them. TMNT action figures, T-shirts, etc. is a sustainable business model for whoever owns the brand. They can forever produce that stuff for pennies and make back billions. Movies and TV shows are not a sustainable business model, however, unless your brand shows a certain level of being "bulletproof". TMNT has never been that brand, as it's forever been a mixed bag at the best of times and its general fanbase is schizophrenic and bipolar. Sounds kinda Doom N Gloom, maybe, and I confess that sometimes when I'm in a mood I can sound like I'm rooting for that to happen, but not so much that, really. It's more like, I just see the writing on the wall and if that's where things are headed then I'd like to skip the next three bad, failed retries and skip right to the "It's just a toy line for adults now" part. I just don't have a ton of patience, and as bad as tbe Bay stuff was I'm scared that the next one(s) might be even worse. I swear though, I'm just being pragmatic. "Looking at the tea leaves" and just reading the general temperature of "TMNT Fans", who they are and what they respond to the most... This is sincerely the way I see things going. 15 years, I think. 20 if the next cartoon does better than expected.