Joker 2

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Plus this is made-up, nonsense Batman universe that doesn't matter, so who cares?

Well, exactly. Why Should I Give A Sh*t? And I don't.

First one was "fine" as a one-and-done, but even on the second viewing it was like, "Yeah, wow, people are so easily amused anymore if they think this is anything more than Taxi Driver in clownface". Not a single original idea anywhere to be found, and all of its "brilliance" is in the gimmick of "Let's do a movie about a comic book character... (dramatic pause) except that we DON'T make it a 'comic book movie'! Eh? Ehhhhhh?!" It ain't "bad", but if that thing is a modern masterpiece of cinema then it only serves to illustrate how far standards have fallen, because it's completely f*cking mundane after you've already watched it once.

For all its self-importance, it doesn't even feel like it has anything to say. "Life is hard for poor people?" Yeah, we know. "Rich people can be slimy?" Yeah, we know. "Society makes life difficult for the mentally ill?" Yeah, we know. We know all of that because movies existed before This One showed up and shined a light on ALL of those things so eloquently. It all comes off like the stoner ramblings of a college-aged kid who's just had his first Sociology class and suddenly figured out that Life Isn't Fair, and he just has to tell you ALL the reasons Why That Is. It's insufferable on long car rides, it's insufferable at Denny's at 3am, and it's not a whole lot more endearing when stretched over three hours of a movie.

I probably come off like I hate it, but I actually don't. I liked it enough to buy it. It's just my natural reaction whenever things become supremely overrated simply because they exist in a time and place where everything around them is SO bad that the mundane becomes "brilliant" simply by not being as awful as everything else. And that's what "Joker" is; it's a "decent" movie that gets elevated to being "a brilliant movie" not because it actually IS that, but rather simply because most movies that come out nowadays are TRULY awful. Therefore anything NOT awful suddenly deserves an Oscar.

Also, Harley Quinn can f*ck off forever as far as I'm concerned. The oversaturation of the character in recent years has me no longer even caring about how hot she generally is. I'm just SO sick of her by now. I get that it's natural territory for a sequel to go into, so that's fine. I'm just over it.

OOOOH! OHHHH! Maybe "Harley" isn't even real! Maybe she's all just a figment of his imagination, like the "relationship" he had with the chick in the first one was! "Brilliant!"

I just saved y'all ten bucks for the sequel, that's the Shocking Third Act Plot Twist. "Harley's just another hallucination". Would we be shocked, though? Honestly?
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Aside from all that, though, I'm just completely bored with yet another "gritty and real" take on the Batman mythos. I'm so over all that sh*t. All I ever cared about seeing in Batman movies was Actual Comic Book Stuff. I went along with the Nolan-verse because it was the best we were ever gonna get and it works fine in its own arena, but now that comic book movies actually do Actual Comic Book Stuff on a regular basis, I'm fed up with not getting that with Batman. We got five whole minutes of it thanks to Snyder and now all anyone wants to do is go back to sucking all the fantasy out of it again. F*cking YAWN. No f*cks given about This Thing, no f*cks given about The Batman 2, no more f*cks to give AT ALL about "realistic, real-world, no fantasy, no whimsy, no-fun-at-all" Batman movies. Wake me up when they go back to doing Actual Comic Book Stuff. That's when I'll give a sh*t. People who think Batman is cool because "he's realistic", and that his world would somehow work BETTER if it were "more realistic" are completely missing the point of things.

Batman's not even a realistic character in the first place, what with his Infinite Money and God Mode cheats being constantly turned on ever since Grant Morrison got his hands on him back in the 90s. But he never was "realistic" to begin with. Which is why the never-ending push to "make it More Real" rings so jarringly false. All you get with that approach are worse-looking costumes and dumber origin stories.

There's a bit of a line most people seem to not recognize, with regard to "Being More Realistic" and "Striving For Realism" and the subtle but important distinction between those two things. With regard to super-heroes, the former is something you can attempt but the latter is just plain silly. There is nothing at all realistic about super-heroes, not even Batman. Which is why "Make everything 100% True To Life" is just boring and misguided. Conversely, "Being More Realistic" without "striving for realism" would be something like, for example, "Man of Steel" framing Superman's emergence as a First Contact story, because naturally that's what it would be. It's still not "realistic", though, because we have flying aliens shooting laser beams and spaceships that can move between folds in space/time. A Superman movie that "strives for realism" would be just f*cking awful, but "being more realistic" serves to elevate the material by bringing it out of being a simple fairy tale.

It's a bit of a nuanced point, I'll grant. Most people just see the word "Realistic" and assume it's an all-or-nothing game, but it really isn't. You can be "more realistic" and make the material more relatable to people who don't read comics, but actually "BEING Realistic" is simply not the right way to do super-heroes, because everything about them is fantasy wish-fulfillment. The "make it Real Life" angle is only pushed by people who are ashamed of the source material and wish it were "actual literature". Well, it's not.

It's whatever, if people want Batman movies with all the fun stuff taken out so it's just a guy in SWAT gear getting in back alley fistfights instead of joining a Fight Club, good for them I guess. I personally just want Actual Batman Movies. When those start happening, I'll care. Until then... yawn. All just different people trying to out-Nolan Nolan. Not new, not fun, not interesting. Not to me, anyway.